Re: Jim Walker Bonanza etc.

roddie Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:59 am

Yes, I have several Medallions that I could use, the one with the anodized parts and drilled out mounting holes could be a .051? I just thought the TD would be cool. But, it's been years, decades even since I have ran one.

Either way I have have to run them all before I decide.

(Roddie) Running them all will be fun.. and will surely help with the decision-making process.

My son asked about the V tail, without a rudder how do they hang out on the lines? Well, centrifugal force, a little luck, and a couple of shims on the leading edge of the engine. But, I don't know for sure, I think Ken has maintained that you don't need rudder deflection. Most "speed planes" don't even have a vertical stabilator much less a rudder.

(Roddie) You could orient your lead-out guide on this model a little bit more "aft" than the 1st build's.. which should influence the yaw-angle. If you're able to get flights in on both models; it would also allow you to determine which position works better.. providing the engine thrust-offsets are the same between the two.

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I have no idea how I'm going to do the yellow/red trim. I'm no good at the crafty part - even before I developed the old man shakes. I can run a tractor and handle a chain saw but I can't thread a blasted needle!!! It's the curve at the leading edge of the wing that will do me in. Maybe painters tape layed out on glass and carved out with an exacto. Dunno!!

(Roddie) Maybe try taping-off a single stripe-line down the sides of the fuse before assembly. Same for the red tips on the wing and tail-feathers. Just "brush-on" the red after assembly and remove the tape to reveal your nice straight lines.

These are just foods for thought Robert.. I'm enjoying following these Bonanza builds. I made a "fork-type" launch-stooge for my two tricycle-geared airplanes..

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rsv1cox Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:30 am

Thanks roddie

I ran one of the Medallions. I chose the worst looking one, fueled it with old Cox 25% being fed by a length of tubing and using the cut yellow prop flipped it over. It caught first thing running off the prime. Hit it again and it just whaled on that little prop as you would expect. Changed it over to a Cox TD 6.3 and calmed it down. Three more to go. I love this stuff!!!

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Cut out masking for the fuselage and painted over the primered wing. Base gray against white on the fuselage, there will be a shading difference. I ran out of white primer.

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While waiting for the second and third coats to set, I thought I would have a little fun. I set up a spent can of aerosol white, loaded up my old Remington model 550 .22 with HV shorts and dead center it spun around shooting out what was left of the white paint. I hit it three more times opening up a gap in the can allowing me to shake out the agitating ball. I always wanted to see how large they are.

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One of my first firearms, I have had it since 1946. It's gone every where I have gone, spent countless days and nights in the woods with me. Thousands of rounds and refinished several times. "Floating chamber"........look up David "Carbine" Williams. Shoots interchangably .22 shorts, longs, and long rifles in any order. I love the thing, if there is any chance...I'm bringing it along.

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roddie Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:46 am

My wife would say.. "you're such a boy"... I Love This Forum!

rsv1cox Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:59 am

roddie wrote:My wife would say.. "you're such a boy"...

Yeah.......second childhood. Smile

My wife tolerated my adventures.

Just like a model airplane engine, they come apart.

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rdw777 Fri Aug 23, 2024 11:09 am

Nice .22 Bob… and that you’ve had it all that time…. Not familiar with it but will look it up…

Here’s my “shoot anything thru it .22”…. Single shot Glenfield Model 10…. Made for Montgomery Wards by Marlin…. Simple little thing….I bought it new from MW in 1979 for $29.00…I hopped it up a bit not long after I got it…. Dad had (and still does) the nice
.22…., Browning automatic….. I really liked the sights on the Browning because of the fine bead you could draw on it….. I had a local gunsmith dovetail the barrel on my Glenfield and install Browning sights…. Improved accuracy tremendously….Still works great to this day……

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TD ABUSER Fri Aug 23, 2024 1:09 pm

Here is my vote for hooking up both halves of your Vee Tail.....

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The slot in the fuselage that makes this idea work might also serve as a support.
I would use .047" wire and don't forget to provide an adjustment kink in both wires.

If you just hook up one half of the elevator you will get unwanted yaw towards you when you give it DOWN.

roddie Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:55 pm

TD ABUSER wrote:Here is my vote for hooking up both halves of your Vee Tail.....

The slot in the fuselage that makes this idea work might also serve as a support.
I would use .047" wire and don't forget to provide an adjustment kink in both wires.

If you just hook up one half of the elevator you will get unwanted yaw towards you when you give it DOWN.

I still can't wrap my head around how this will connect to the elev. horns. Maybe using "ball-links" in place of conventional horns?? Huh...

rsv1cox Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:39 pm

Thanks TD A.

But I bent, twisted, lengthened, shortened, cussed and cursed and came up with nothing also using your basic drawing. I'm not saying that it can't be done. I just could not make it work without some binding. Yes, it's going to be interesting flying this thing.

And Robert, regarding weight. There is a lot of wood glue, filler, and paint on the repaired fuselage including a layer of silkspan and several coats of sanding sealer. Tough stuff, I could not sand down the lower fuselage silkspan seam and it shows in the yellow paint. I will live with it. Just finished the yellow on the other side.

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I'm pretty proud of that first shot, off-hand too. Right in the middle of the red Krylon emblem. My old-man shakes must have twitched in the right direction. The ball isn't magnetic. Hard as a rock and may be a marble. Glassie to you flat landers.... Smile

An over-night soak in Simple Green may reveal what it is.

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Nice rifle Robert. Squirrel stock too. Retired Lt Col William Brophy wrote a book about Marlins and their Glenfields. Almost 700 pages. I have your Dads rifle but in Remington's model 241. A knockoff of his.

TD ABUSER Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:31 pm

roddie wrote:
TD ABUSER wrote:Here is my vote for hooking up both halves of your Vee Tail.....

The slot in the fuselage that makes this idea work might also serve as a support.
I would use .047" wire and don't forget to provide an adjustment kink in both wires.

If you just hook up one half of the elevator you will get unwanted yaw towards you when you give it DOWN.

I still can't wrap my head around how this will connect to the elev. horns. Maybe using "ball-links" in place of conventional horns??

There is just the right angle that the control horns need to be set at. The horns need to be aluminum sheet metal so that you can bend them to just the right angle that seems to work the best.

The elevator control system only needs to move 15 degrees either side of zero... so set the control ratios for this at max ballcrank throw.
I set up a Vee Tail equipped .061 powered model with a similar system except it was INSIDE the aft end of a fully enclosed fuselage. I had to do the carpentry to enclose the linkage AFTER I got the control linkage working reliably. This model really flew good...but I asked the guys who fly RC Pylon they didn't see a performance advantage in the classes they raced over the years. .....

rsv1cox Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:41 pm

Thanks TD A. That Cyclon is a mover and a screamer. Looks great in the air.

I haven't given up on the V-tail elevators yet. If I build another or crash and rebuild this one I will give it another try. I did use Robert's very bendable control horns. Still, I got to the point when I was tearing the hinges (well glued) out of the elevators due mainly to a twisting action and was not getting that free, smooth elevator deflection that I am used to. I'm not giving up on it.

I will outboard shim that engine.

Bob

rsv1cox Sat Aug 24, 2024 12:39 pm

It is a marble, my years long wonderment solved. Pretty one too. Bluish green.

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I started the second Medallion? Anodized. Four turns out Cox fuel. Started right off on second flip after prime. About 15 < seconds run time on a length of tubing. Better than the first one I tried. A winner.

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No winner on my paint job. Not a lot of love. I may belt sand it and try again, probably with the same results. But, I'm toying with the idea of red and yellow pin striping then over-all clear. Eliminates bleed through etc. Maybe fly/crash it first..................

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GallopingGhostler Sat Aug 24, 2024 2:13 pm

Bob, is that 2nd one a Medallion, with TD .051 carb body and TD NVA and venturi? Or, a true TD .051? Fact it started easily makes it a winner.

Usually a builder can be his worse critic. IMO, these minor blemishes don't seem to detract from the final overall result.

rsv1cox Sat Aug 24, 2024 3:25 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, is that 2nd one a Medallion, with TD .051 carb body and TD NVA and venturi? Or, a true TD .051? Fact it started easily makes it a winner.

Usually a builder can be his worse critic. IMO, these minor blemishes don't seem to detract from the final overall result.

Thanks George, I found another identical one on ebay for less than $100 NIB with a crystal case with cheap shipping so I bought it just to compare.

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It's an easy starter and a great runner. Eager to let the paint cure for a few days and probably using a stooge fly it out in the field with 30' lines and a 6/3 prop????

The finish is like something a 12 year old would turn out. Not proud of it but something I have come to expect.

GallopingGhostler Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:15 pm

Bob, you already know this but the Medallion was the less expensive "poor man's" TD, with a simplified round hole in the crank as the venturi valve and one bypass versus 2 in the cylinder, similar to the earlier Babe Bee and Golden Bee engines.

But, interestingly enough, I gather by other's experiences that one can mix and match TD parts to enhance Medallion performance. When I get settled, still have that Medallion .049 that I want to upgrade to R/C with the kit I bought from Bernie a few years ago, the slitted R/C Bee cylinder/piston and muffled throttle ring with silicon rubber cover. Elimination of SPI and dual bypasses with freer fuel induction system should turn my Medallion into a decently powerful R/C engine exceeding the sport reedies overall.

(But, when I am settled down.)

rsv1cox Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:43 pm

My experience with Medallions and Tee Dees is extremely limited. I have disassembled a couple of the really beaten examples I have bought in the past but I can't remember running them. Many Many years ago I ran a couple of .010 Tee Dees but that's about it until I ran this two. I was surprised to discover that they are easier to start and run than the reedies.

Made wheel pants for the V tail. Why not..I have corrupted this thing, it can't get much worse.

roddie Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:06 pm

rsv1cox wrote: I was surprised to discover that they are easier to start and run than the reedies.

Made wheel pants for the V tail. Why not..I have corrupted this thing, it can't get much worse.

Robert, you will "do the model proud".. I'm sure.

How about those Medallions? Smile

TD ABUSER Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:26 pm

I think the paint looks great..!

Now that I see how much dihedral is in the tail...that is most likely the "scale" amount but for a model plane you only want 1/2 that.
That will make hooking it up to a simple push rod[s] much easier and it with still look like a Bonanza

GallopingGhostler Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:30 pm

rsv1cox wrote:My experience with Medallions and Tee Dees is extremely limited. I have disassembled a couple of the really beaten examples I have bought in the past but I can't remember running them. Many Many years ago I ran a couple of .010 Tee Dees but that's about it until I ran this two. I was surprised to discover that they are easier to start and run than the reedies.

Bob, you have illustrated a myth buster here. Very Happy

Your indication of the ease of starting illustrates that properly fed and bred, those front rotary Coxes are easy performers. Thumbs Up

rsv1cox wrote:Made wheel pants for the V tail. Why not..I have corrupted this thing, it can't get much worse.

Bob, kits are customizable. The manufacturer provides the basic plane. It is up to the builder where he takes from there. (Can add skiis, floats, build w/o landing gear, etc.) sunny

It is up to the imagination of the builder. So, your customization is "within scope". Very Happy

rsv1cox Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:06 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, is that 2nd one a Medallion, with TD .051 carb body and TD NVA and venturi? Or, a true TD .051? Fact it started easily makes it a winner.

Usually a builder can be his worse critic. IMO, these minor blemishes don't seem to detract from the final overall result.

I don't remember, an ebay buy of years ago. The cylinder on both is worn, like maybe a sleeve was installed. It could be I disassembled and cleaned them both, but probably not. I could check the piston. The pressure nipple on both is not breeched. I'm going to use the anodized version on the plane. I like the way it turned over that little TF 5 1/4-3 prop. Smile

But, I will use a different one.

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The left hand pant is inside out, rounded on the wing side to rock with the springy music wire. That tubing I bought for the pressure opperated JW engine throttle works great for wheel colets. I still need to cut to size and install inside colets and a drop of CA on outside to secure.

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It is nasty, lot's of paint bleed among other things. SIG is (again) out of airfoil balsa or I would trace out another fuselage and build another with a lesser angled V tail thanks to TD A's suggestion. I would like to make the duel elevators work.

GallopingGhostler Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:41 am

rsv1cox wrote:SIG is (again) out of airfoil balsa or I would trace out another fuselage and build another with a lesser angled V tail thanks to TD A's suggestion. I would like to make the duel elevators work.

I don't know about you, but I'd roll my own airfoil by using my rubber autobody sanding block with say, 60 - 80 grit paper, rough out an airfoil using say 1/4 inch thick sheet balsa, then finer grades of sandpaper.

Given that balsa is getting harder to get, a K-Flex airfoil layering 2 sheets of 3/16 inch poster foamboard with paper removed from upper layer sanded to airfoil on front side would work also. Leave backside of 2nd layer stepped as K-Flex intended.

rsv1cox Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:52 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:SIG is (again) out of airfoil balsa or I would trace out another fuselage and build another with a lesser angled V tail thanks to TD A's suggestion. I would like to make the duel elevators work.
I don't know about you, but I'd roll my own airfoil by using my rubber autobody sanding block with say, 60 - 80 grit paper, rough out an airfoil using say 1/4 inch thick sheet balsa, then finer grades of sandpaper.

Given that balsa is getting harder to get, a K-Flex airfoil layering 2 sheets of 3/16 inch poster foamboard with paper removed from upper layer sanded to airfoil on front side would work also. Leave backside of 2nd layer stepped as K-Flex intended.

Thanks George, I have done that in the past, but it's so much easier to give SIG a call. Smile

"Ran" the TD this morning, or tried to. Wants to run but the intake is loose and I did not have a wrench in the garage to tighten it. 9/32 as I found out later. Disassembled the Medallion but did not run it. Needle on the wrong side for my set-up. TD only partial disassembly. I just wanted to see that piston. Both have no etched rings.

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Not to worry........snugged up gents, not caveman tight.

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Always Berrymans, Gentle cleaning. Simple Green and water rinse. Compressed air blowout, light dusting with the heat gun, MMO lube preserve. WD-40? No no no and no! I still have nightmares about the stuff. Flip over many times CW/CWW. MMO or after run oil (ATF) protects for years.

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Basement - Cast wrench is too thick. Simple stamped out wrench works.

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rdw777 Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:27 pm

I think the paint on the fuse looks fine for a working model Bob…. You’ve got the splashes of color in the right locations according to the box art….. If you get that airfoil wood and wanted to build another plane we could try some tissue templates like we did on Silver Lining …. Just an option if you like Thumbs Up

GallopingGhostler Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:47 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
GallopingGhostler wrote:I'd roll my own airfoil by using my rubber autobody sanding block with say, 60 - 80 grit paper, rough out an airfoil using say 1/4 inch thick sheet balsa, then finer grades of sandpaper.
Thanks George, I have done that in the past, but it's so much easier to give SIG a call.

Bob, you're welcome, that was in SIG's past history. I ordered from them a number of times from the 1970's - 1980's. However, with SIG departing their old Montezuma IA manufacturing factility being relocated with all that old equipment used to make balsa logs into cut wood sold off, I think that it as a viable balsa stock source is gone, website says, Out of Stock. Some have decried the new owner's decisions by not fully resurrecting the old SIG, but they don't understand that to stay in business, they must maintain profitability. The modelling market is tough business.

So, unless one happens onto airfoil shaped sheet balsa either NOS or another supplier, left is to roll one's own. But, we adapt. Very Happy

rsv1cox wrote:Disassembled the Medallion but did not run it. Needle on the wrong side for my set-up. TD only partial disassembly. I just wanted to see that piston. Both have no etched rings. [Previous message] The cylinder on both is worn, like maybe a sleeve was installed.

That possibility of a throttle ring formerly installed looks like a good explanation, which might explain why the Tee Dee with the red carb body had its .051 piston/cylinder set replaced. (Or, previous owner found a red .051 carb body in stock - I remember those days where even Montgomery Ward or Sears sold Cox parts back in the 1970's. I remember one or the other in Honolulu clearing out their Cox engine parts corner in the hobbies section maybe 1977-78.) Good thing is the black carb body is still available to restore it to a truer self.

And yup, I think I got a 9/32" open end wrench just like yours somewhere. Very Happy

Ken Cook Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:33 pm

While you may have felt you received positive results in making airfoiled sheet balsa by sanding, it's far better to plane it to shape initially. Sanding generates a fair amount of heat, this in itself can really warp the sheet badly. Using a good SHARP plane will make simple work of that sheet faster then sanding and a lot more accurate. I grind a slight radius on the corners of my plane blade when I need to work like this because it prevents digging in. Once the majority of the material is removed. I super glue a piece of music 3/32" music wire to the board. Then place the trailing edge of the wing butt up to the music wire. Now with a long flat sanding block, sand down until the sandpaper hits the music wire and this makes for a nice straight trailing edge preventing a unwanted thin spot.

rsv1cox Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:57 am

Almost finished, but not a source of pride. Window frames and controls to go. Much flatter wing (intentional) than JW's original. Weighs more too. Debating where to place the controls, above or beneath the wing. Above gives a much straighter line between bell crank and control horn.

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