Jim Walker Bonanza etc.

Looking good Bob…. The Vee tail is a little unusual for a CL plane but with a little fiddling around might just be doable…..More finicky than a conventional set up but the Vee is a big part of the Bonanza’s attraction ….

rdw777 wrote:Looking good Bob…. The Vee tail is a little unusual for a CL plane but with a little fiddling around might just be doable…..More finicky than a conventional set up but the Vee is a big part of the Bonanza’s attraction ….

New plan Robert.  The set-up I have presently will never work.  I need to bush the fuselage lengthwise and with a clevis and the pass through control rod hitch it up the conventional way only with the ganged pass though rod controlling both control horns.




Maybe - as I'm not sure how the rod would traverse the distance without binding. I may have to go the U connecting route. The whole tail assembly gets a redo anyway. If at first you don't succeed fail and fail again........... JW must have tested this system before he outlined it on his instruction sheet, but it has flaws in application. Its not a twisting motion, its a sliding motion.

roddie quote:

Nice! If it were me..... I'd do the elevator/linkage the way that Wen Mac did it.

I should have listened early-on, it would have saved me a lot of trouble.

I could not get the V-tail double elevator linkage to work despite several different approaches.  I pass the solution on to the forum to show me how it's done.  

I thought - V the linkage.  Wow NOT! Despite everything it just flopped around V or straight pin.  So I put a drop of CA on all the moving pieces locking them.  Better but stresses.  Looking at right/left, up/down, twisting moments here,  Roll, pitch and yaw if you will.  Twisting pulled one of the pinned hinges right out of it's slot.  

Gave up and gave way to common sense.




Factory control rod gave way to heavier music wire.




After years of wanting, I finally have my Au-Natural balsa airplane model. Three coats of Minwax sanding sealer gave me the finish I wanted.

May I suggest a safety-pin pushrod-support/fairlead around the halfway point?

I thought of that roddie, so I could use the original control rod, but there wasn't enough balsa mid-way to attach a guide as was on the beefier FireBee.  The new control rod is heavier and is stiff as a board, no need for a guide.  But, it still takes more effort to operate even one of the elevators on that V tail as the push/pull is not linear.  

Weight compare against the FireBee

6.21



5.56




I really want to fly it.  It seems like the single elevator would tend to push it towards the outside of the circle climbing.  



Tail heavy.  I would like to find a metal .049 spinner.  I went with a single control line outlet with eyelets on boths sides of an aluminum tube.  I stepped it up a bit to align with the heigth of the bell crank.  Forces me to go with dacron while I really prefer music wires.

Bob, seems you'd need a Harry Higley Heavy Hub. They were available for various half-A engines (Cox and Wen-Mac/Testor's come to mind) 40 years ago. They were of solid heavy brass, used one on my Minnie Mambo. Think it was a half ounce. Made up Ace R/F's lighter flight pack.

Some would wrap heavy lead solder around the engine nose for same effect.

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, seems you'd need a Harry Higley Heavy Hub. They were available for various half-A engines (Cox and Wen-Mac/Testor's come to mind) 40 years ago. They were of solid heavy brass, used one on my Minnie Mambo. Think it was a half ounce. Made up Ace R/F's lighter flight pack.

Some would wrap heavy lead solder around the engine nose for same effect.

Thanks George, I hadn't thought of that even though I have one for largere engines.

Looking at this on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284414145118?itmmeta=01J432EZC0X4WSDRWCPQDG100D&hash=item423867725e:g:n20AAOSwWH9g7g~P&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwHIDs4YpwY9deErSfASHFO4UwuPY4C

8.5 grams = 0.3 ounce of plated steel, similar.

One I have isn't as pretty, pure function shaped like a 6 sided solid cylinder, but guaranteed at 0.5 ounce.

Not bad, didn't know Mecoa stocked them. Seems like a good thing. Haven't ordered from them yet, so I say that YMMV (your mileage may vary). But they have a 100% rating as seller.

GallopingGhostler wrote:8.5 grams = 0.3 ounce of plated steel, similar.

One I have isn't as pretty, pure function shaped like a 6 sided solid cylinder, but guaranteed at 0.5 ounce.

Not bad, didn't know Mecoa stocked them. Seems like a good thing. Haven't ordered from them yet, so I say that YMMV (your mileage may vary). But they have a 100% rating as seller.

I buy from them frequently. They stock a lot of off-beat stuff. They are reproducing the early Cox aluminum spinners for the Space Bug Jr. and others.

Last piece of the puzzle. Vintage black dacron that I salvaged from some beat-up plastic airplane and some fishing line connectors that.....for some reason I painted green for up and red for down. A first for me.........maybe I'm trying to add color to this mono --- strosity.

I like the clear finish Bob….Makes the red highlights jump out …… Looks like the wing and tail are fairly “C” grained which is pretty in its own right….. I bet American Jr. had a grading system for their wood to pass before being used in a kit….. Both Firebaby wings I have are nice, straight grained a weigh nearly exactly the same….. You did the right thing on the elevator…. Geometry was just weird for a single wire to operate both…. A nice source for lead weight is if you can find a plumber willing to give you an old lead boot for a vent stack….. It’s mostly soft sheet and can be cut easily and shaped to fit specific areas…..

Thanks Robert, I matched the missing elevator wood to the original horizontal stab as best I could.  The rest of the elevator/stab is AJ. This was a "parts" airplane. Fuselage balsa is right out of Hobby Lobby.  I could have sanded the V tail a lot more but I was getting down to the hinges so I quit.  Left a bit more filler than I would have liked contributing to the tail heavyness.  

I have to carve out some time to fly it, so curious about the dynamics of that V tail.  Whole lot of climb with a little up not not????  And..........I have to straighten that nose gear but it does track to the outside of the runway.  Spring steel, I may have to heat it, twisting isn't doing the job.  I never noticed it while putting it in.  Bothers me.  

I figure about a 120 degree angle on the V tail.  

rsv1cox wrote: I have to straighten that nose gear but it does track to the outside of the runway.  Spring steel, I may have to heat it, twisting isn't doing the job.  I never noticed it while putting it in.  Bothers me.  

Maybe try removing the wheel.. and grab the axle with small locking-pliers and "gently twist" while holding the nose firmly with your other hand.

Are the wheels hollow? If so; you might try drilling a hole through the sidewall and use a syringe to fill with some type of liquid with enough weight to correct the balance point.

I've used round "Pinecar" weights to add weight where I need it too.. Amazon stocks them.

Thanks roddie, the nosewheel has one of those pinched/crimped keepers that yell - Take me off if you can without damage things. I'm thinking - vice grips up high, heat and twist. I'm looking into those weights, seem like they would come in handy.

I have been researching V tails. I found "pros and cons" 10 pros, 10 cons.

Outside of Beeches Bonanza, not a lot of them but this one popped up on my morning Air Classic breakfast time read. Looks like the elevators are about half the size of the stab.

Cute as a bug in a rug............

The Cox ME109 Super Stunter model used a heavy spinner "hub-nut" that weighs .2oz. and was offered as a replacement part. (Cox Cat. No. 26482 per their 1993 products list)



EDIT: The Cox Super Sport II also uses that heavy hub-nut..





WEIGHT-OUNCES


WEIGHT-GRAMS


Some interesting reading...

To "V" or not to "V" (link)

Your "To V or not to V link"........... Interesting comments.

Things I found to be true:

This is not only adds weight but represents a complex mechanical linkage

Whilst there is inevitably some saving from the reduced overall surface area, each V-tail fin is doing duty as both horizontal and vertical tail and so tends to be larger in area than any single conventional tail surface.

And - Off to ebay............. From .25 to $17.95 - Outragious............but with free shipping and there are three of them.  It's going to hurt me - opening the packaage.  



Thanks for the heads -up!!!  They will be nice to have on hand but they do not fit the larger JW engine prop shaft size.  Maybe I could drill out and re-tap.  

What I would like to see.......a roddie scratch built V tail.  Get out your Westcotts draw up a plan and build.  I bet it would really be something.

I'm building another, this one to paint.  Bottom kit is complete providing templates.



Saving the original JW cut-up fuselage.  I still have no idea as to what he was thinking.  Cut a diagonial right out of the middle and graft in new balsa proportioned as original.

That is strange on the cut up fuse…. I can see to some extent to modifying a kit but I can’t figure that one out….. You will piece it back together?…. Looks very doable

rdw777 wrote:That is strange on the cut up fuse…. I can see to some extent to modifying a kit but I can’t figure that one out….. You will piece it back together?…. Looks very doable

I'm conflicted Robert, cut a piece out of the fuselage and graft in a new one or save as much as I can by laying in three toothpicks and mixing up some epoxy and balsa dust and filling the crack.  That woud save the maximum amount of the fuselage.  Clamped together the missing balsa is not as much as I first thought.



Or, cut out a piece using the best balsa saving device and graft in a new piece.  Probably my best option,,,,,,,,,but.





Either way, i will have to do some front end work.  The PO saw it necessary to screw up the nose and belly pan too.



Silly.......perhaps.  I could just construct a whole new fuselage like I did with the other JW.  But, the cut up fuse is an original and might have even had Bob Smurthwaites hands on it.  

The first production kit that Bob Smurthwaite produced for A-J from the Baker, Oregon plant was the Jim Walker Beechcraft Bonanza. This model was completely designed by Bob, who also made all of the tooling for its production. Jim was so impressed with all of Bob's work, and this plane was no exception. He gave Bob a contract for 125,000 of the Bonanza kits. The kit was an all balsa profile model of the Beechcraft V-Tailed Bonanza, with a wingspan of 20". The kit featured wood pieces cut to shape, with excellent fit, and no carving required. Easy to follow instructions/plans - just assemble, glue and sand in preparation to painting for the very precise and simple fool proof assembly required.

Ideas?

With all the wondering on what to do, you could've cut a new one and have no concerns. A repair like that will be the first spot to break. I have a V-tail plane that I was toying with. Horrible flyer, absolutely no maneuverability. It utilizes one elevator and that certainly could be the problem. This is utilized on speed planes to prevent drag but also due to the fact they need little to no movement. Using one half dumbs down the plane's ability to climb. I see no positive use for it other than scale like appearance. Same as dihedral. Many WWII planes use a low wing which presents issues in control line fuselages. It places too much above the center line of wing. This causes problems in turning insides vs outsides. The other issue is that the plane wants to fly inside wing tip low. Therefore dihedral is added to place the tip guide inline with bellcrank.

I've yet to see a control line plane fly correctly using dihedral. When I watch them it's clearly obvious that it turns tighter one direction vs the other because the wings acts like a scoop when the plane flies a outside. I can usually hear the other rushing over the wings as well creating lots of drag which slows it down.

"A repair like that will be the first spot to break"

Yes, on my mind. I tried to drill holes in the two balsa pieces for reenforcing toothpicks, but gave up. Futile effort for an old man with the shakes. I could still channel the exterior but.................the fix is in. Will let readers know how I did it later.

Bob, I have full confidence in you that you will fly the plane. This one shouldn't be a barn burner but it should have a little zip. If we can get you over the dizzies, I think it will offer a ear to ear smile.

I like the idea of fixing  the original fuse Bob from an antique-ness standpoint….. Kind of like fixing a bent fender on an old car…..replacement with a straight piece of wood as in your last photo would be my first choice…. As Ken mentioned it would be weak there….. You can gain a little more strength by dimpling the wood with an awl on all mating surfaces before gluing ….. A lamination of heavy paper on both sides afterward if it’s going to be painted anyway…. I use brown kraft paper sometimes…… Sounds like you’ve come up with a plan for repair though….. Will like to see how you made it work!!

Yes, I’d love to see you fly it too!!…..I have a couple of CL’s on standby but have yet to fly them….. You may beat me too it!!

rsv1cox wrote:
What I would like to see.......a roddie scratch built V tail.  Get out your Westcotts draw up a plan and build.  I bet it would really be something.

I'm building another, this one to paint.  

As cool looking as the V-tailed Bonanza is, I don't think I'd want to build one for flying. Knowing me... I'd over-think that elevator linkage issue and try to re-design the Vee into a "stabilator" which might work.. but would require too complex of a pivot to be practical. Something in the order of a dowel running through a tube.. don't get me started.

So.. yea.. I looked for some color/trim suggestions for your 2nd model.. Check out the registration on this red one..





I like this blue one too. It's not as difficult of a paint-scheme to replicate as the red one..