Re: Jim Walker Bonanza etc.

rsv1cox Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:31 pm

"Bob, I have full confidence in you that you will fly the plane."

Thanks Ken, you may have more confidence in me than I do. Smile

But yes, I have several of these rebuilds that I will fly. I just have to budget the time and have my son close by. But, the engine that I pulled off the shelf for it is stuck, whether from the factory or castor I don't know.

Jim Walker Bonanza etc. - Page 3 Jw_eng10

I have been thinking about flying a C/L model with that much dihedral. I can't remember flying one with as much. My best flyers of long ago were always flat wings, my Sterling P-40 and Nieuport 28 and .049's like the zipper come to mind. Seems like a C/L model is always flying inboard wing low a result of weight and drag of the lines. In C/L dihedral should become effective over a flat wing as the inboard lower (flat plain) wing would present more lift compensating for the drag......... Huh...

I'm going to have to free it up and test stand it first. I might have thought it was this one that I ran recently.

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And Robert, always me to make the wrong decision............I'm going (already did) with the "remove the least balsa as possible route." It's fun testing the limits of my irresponsiblity. Smile

But, covering the entire fuselage with silkspan fixed with sanding sealer (like sealing the whole thing in epoxy) work work well bracing the repair.

rsv1cox Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:40 pm

"Something in the order of a dowel running through a tube.. Huh... Huh... don't get me started."

That's what I was hoping for roddie......your the king of this scratched out stuff.......................

Ken Cook Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:41 pm

The Royal Spitfire in the .049 and .065 variants are very low powered. Enough to fly the plane on a calm day but very anemic. The OK Cub .049 isn't far behind them. Some can do fairly well but for the most part, they're low powered. There were so many variants of the OK engines. It's difficult to detect one from the other but there can be some with quite a fair amount of power. For example, the OK .074 offers about the same amount of rpm's with a similar prop as a Cox Babe Bee. It offers 2x the amount of noise which shouldn't be confused for power. A side by side rpm test reveals quickly the winner.

rsv1cox Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:33 pm

Ken, If I had the courage or more likely the ability, I would configure this newly roughed-out luan nose-piece

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Check the little notch that AJ milled into the back of the mount. It houses the fuel tanks attaching machine screw head. Attention to detail on their part.

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for one of these

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30' lines it would surely screw me right into the ground. Smile

This will become the - parts - parts V tail. I still have to go to Hobby Lobby and pick up some 1/4" balsa to do the wing as I'm starting with next to nothing with it. Just the cut-up fuselage and a couple of wing pieces. Everything else will have to be made.

getback Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:11 am

If it were up to me in my experience with trying to fix broken fuses has been pretty much a failure lol!

could have been the way i did it or just fling luck .. I still got a old stuntman 23 that needs the nose put back on of all things and the fuse right behind wing broke , but that repair is still holding LOL Maybe some flight instructor is what i need . I hope you can get out there and fly some this fall when it cools off is what I am thinking .

rsv1cox Tue Aug 06, 2024 9:01 am

getback wrote:If it were up to me in my experience with trying to fix broken fuses has been pretty much a failure could have been the way i did it or just fling luck .. I still got a old stuntman 23 that needs the nose put back on of all things and the fuse right behind wing broke , but that repair is still holding LOL Maybe some flight instructor is what i need . I hope you can get out there and fly some this fall when it cools off is what I am thinking .

"my experience with trying to fix broken fuses has been pretty much a failure"

Smile

- Balsa ain't Oak is it....... Smile

Maybe mine too. But I cut balsa wedges to fit in the voids and wicked in a lot of CA then waited a day and added wood glue and skimmed with filler. Needs three coats of sanding sealer then silkspan fixed with more sanding sealer. Then paint. Maybe the paint will hold it together. Smile

Eager to see how the weight compares with the original.

Ken planted a seed. More power ---- why not! The Medallion is sleeved so the TD gets the nod. Kap Pac 1/2 oz tank will do but I have a slightly larger Perfect.

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I'm starting with just a broken fuselage and a couple of wing pieces to build an airplane so it gets a whole new wing. A 3" SIG airfoil provides the base and the camber so the leading and trailing edges will have to be cut and sanded to shape to duplicate the original as close as possible.

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But, I'm changing the extreme angle of the original to a much flatter wing, perhaps just a few degrees.

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rdw777 Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:40 pm

Nice repair on the fuse Bob, With the silkspan reinforcement should hold up fine plus give you a good base for paint…..TeeDee power!!, reduced dihedral…… Just add some streamlined wheels and you’ll have one hot Jim Walker Bonanza Very Happy

**944_Jim** Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:48 pm

Bob,
I'm digging the builds. Your workroom is as clean as a surgical operating room. Who else could plop a piece of wood on a scroll saw and not produce saw dust while cutting?

rsv1cox Wed Aug 07, 2024 7:15 am

944_Jim wrote:Bob,
I'm digging the builds. Your workroom is as clean as a surgical operating room. Who else could plop a piece of wood on a scroll saw and not produce saw dust while cutting?

Not always that way Jim. The Dremel has a vacuum port for dust control however it isn't hooked up. I had just not began scrolling yet. Dust happens. Smile

Bob

rsv1cox Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:45 am

Second JW Bonanza build stalled by tropical storm Debby that took down a pine tree in my front yard. Three days of cleaning the mess up.

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Only original part is the broken JW fuselage, everything else including the engine mount was traced out from originals on to scrap balsa.

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The SIG airfoil wing has a different shape from the JW wing. This tool came in handy making a filler saddle between wing and fuselage.

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I'm going to paint it like the box illustration.

akjgardner Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:57 am

The bonanza look great Bob

rsv1cox Fri Aug 16, 2024 5:27 pm

akjgardner wrote:The bonanza look great Bob

Thanks Joe, Everything was going along fine....................until it didn't.

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Waited over 48 hours after first coat - lightly sanded the fuselage and hit it with a second coat of Krylon Gloss white which crinkled. Wiped it down with laquer thinner and ..........starting all over from scratch. Sad

. Bottom of wing and V tail white underneath, Cub yellow on top with red tips.

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GallopingGhostler Fri Aug 16, 2024 7:42 pm

Bob, I can understand the frustration. These newer paints, which replaced the old tried and true dopes may have compatibility problems between manufacturers and differences in paint components.

Once one figures them out, the results can be satisfying, but indeed frustrating when things don't work out as anticipated.

getback Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:45 am

Tree down , I guess you got some needed rain with that ? Stupid paints some time just don't play well together . I think the wing looks better with less D Very Happy

Good job !

rsv1cox Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:26 am

Thanks guys, My SOP is to lay down at least three coats of sanding sealer most of which is sanded away. This base allows me just to "dust" on the color coat saving paint and weight. Sometimes after a period of waiting I add a second coat, necessary this time as the fuselage has extensive repairs.

Now I'm debating wheather or not to brush on a layer of sanding sealer before painting again. I'm not easily discouraged, but I think I'm going to vacuum balsa dust from the shop and turn my attention back to Remington, Winchester, Savage and Ruger and replace the aroma of paint and sealer with that of Hoppees #9.

**944_Jim** Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:52 am

Bob,
Don't give up yet. Yes, apply more sanding sealer...just so you have some more to sand off smooth. Is your sanding sealer water-based? I haven't had this issue with the traditional lacquer-based sanding sealer.

Then begin making some compatibility test strips so you don't have this problem "on the plane." I suspect you need a barrier between the sanding sealer and your final finish. If you are using water-based, try using the lacquer-based one over your water-based one. If this works, you now have a barrier coating.

Do you have access to a spray gun? Switch to butyrate colors for the final finish. Or play with different spray cans of white.

I'm hoping this goes well for you as I believe we are about to enter into another generation of paint compatibility pains.

GallopingGhostler Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:04 pm

Could it also be that one needs to allow the undercoat used, to "gas off" by letting it dry say one week before sanding and applying color coat?

rdw777 Sat Aug 17, 2024 2:40 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Could it also be that one needs to allow the undercoat used, to "gas off" by letting it dry say one week before sanding and applying color coat?

I agree….. Once the carrier has evaporated away completely will be a much better chance for the next coat to be stable

rsv1cox Sat Aug 17, 2024 3:34 pm

rdw777 wrote:
GallopingGhostler wrote:Could it also be that one needs to allow the undercoat used, to "gas off" by letting it dry say one week before sanding and applying color coat?

I agree….. Once the carrier has evaporated away completely will be a much better chance for the next coat to be stable

I did wait over the 48 hours recommended and it still crazed. Three Krylon cans, two (outside) say wait 24 hours between coats. Center, the one I used says 48. All gloss white.

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Minwax sealer is water based. It's benign, doesn't react to anything. I have used it for years. Sealer not a problem. Eager to get this done I just layed on a coat of yellow which bleeds whatever is under. I could have used a primer, but I want to get this thing finished the shop cleaned and move on.

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The smell of RemOil and gun grease calls.

Firearms, my first love predates model airplanes by quite a bit. When I was nine a friend of my fathers gave me a revolver - American double action, three .22's - Remington model 550, Stevens model 11, and a model 94 Winchester and two shotguns. I still have the revolver and .22's but my brother appropriated the shotguns when I went in the Navy and proceeded to shorten the barrels on both. Since then over 750 firearms have passed through my hands. I had a collectors (C&R) license for years and by law kept a bound book of all transactions.

I sold some but kept many. NIB but most like I bought model engines and airplanes in need of work.

rsv1cox Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:32 am

One step forward, two steps back.

I stripped the crazed fuselage finish with laquer thinner and waited a few days before spraying on base white...........which fish-eyed. No going back, so I hit it again with another coat, better. Then a third. Better still and border-line acceptable. Yellow and red accents like the box image to go.

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I couldn't take the yellow wing bleed-through so after sanding I dusted on a coat of gray primer.

Weight over an unfinished original....You betcha.

0.43 vs. 0.92

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But, I'm thinking that the power of the Cox TD will compensate over the JW/OK Cub. Loops with the SIG airfoil wing, maybe. I will be happy if it just goes around in a circle. I built it out of scrap for fun, not as a serious flyer.

getback Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:01 pm

Thas not to bad a weight gain for all those coats , a good TD .049 will tow i as fast as I would want to go lol!

WE SHOULD HAVE THAT IN A 1/2A FLIGHT Old Bugger

cork screw anyway planes moving right along ,, I feel you as wanting to do something with the guns , Bang!

Might would have to do some test runs

roddie Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:47 pm

Hey Robert, Do you have a Medallion .049 that you could try.. before going with a Tee Dee? (same mount-pattern.. but more forgiving for the maiden-flight..)

rdw777 Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:13 pm

Less than an ounce for the fuse with base coat doesn’t sound too bad Bob….Makes it sound like projected finished weight should be in 1/2 A range….. I agree with Roddie…. A Medallion would be easier to handle in the beginning….. After you got used to it the TD would really make it sing!!…. Either engine will look nice on the painted out Bonanza…

GallopingGhostler Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:31 pm

This discussion of a .049-.051 Tee Dee powered C/L reminds me of the flat sheet wing simple builds of Dick Sarpolus. Two of his designs are on Outerzone:

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2354 1/2A Nobler from Model Airplane News May 1977, 26in span

Outerzone photo by Canadian Steven Swinamer - 08/09/2020

and

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=12508 Flip from Model Builder March 1976, 27in span

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Outerzone photo from Model Builder article

But, an interesting half-A profile Italian kit called Starfire with similar proportions caught my attention also.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=14798 Starfire from Olympic 1970, 26in span

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Outerzone photo from documents

I've always been big on simpler to build kits. Most difficult was the 42-inch Goldberg half-A Skylane, but I enjoyed the simpler because they were quick building and with a good finish, they flew well and provided a great deal of satisfaction in the air. The sheet balsa Top Flite Ken Willard planes were totally a blast. With 4 coats of clear dope and color trim, they were light, total fun.

Tired w/ Coffee Read

rsv1cox Thu Aug 22, 2024 5:07 pm

roddie wrote:Hey Robert, Do you have a Medallion .049 that you could try.. before going with a Tee Dee? (same mount-pattern.. but more forgiving for the maiden-flight..)

Yes, I have several Medallions that I could use, the one with the anodized parts and drilled out mounting holes could be a .051? I just thought the TD would be cool. But, it's been years, decades even since I have ran one.

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Either way I have have to run them all before I decide.

My son asked about the V tail, without a rudder how do they hang out on the lines? Well, centrifugal force, a little luck, and a couple of shims on the leading edge of the engine. But, I don't know for sure, I think Ken has maintained that you don't need rudder deflection. Most "speed planes" don't even have a vertical stabilator much less a rudder.

I have no idea how I'm going to do the yellow/red trim. I'm no good at the crafty part - even before I developed the old man shakes. I can run a tractor and handle a chain saw but I can't thread a blasted needle!!! It's the curve at the leading edge of the wing that will do me in. Maybe painters tape layed out on glass and carved out with an exacto. Dunno!!

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