Stick built rubber powered Scientific ME-109

Hi guys, I have yet to check on outerzone, but if this plan is not there please could you post it on here, and outerzone please.

Getting stuff and spares ready for 20 peewee powered RC and control line subjects...

The one Bob has is not on Outerzone. The only one in the Super Flyers series is the P-40. Haven't checked if Hip Pocket Aeronautics has it or Aero Fred.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6046 Miss America II by Paul Del Gatto from Scientific 1962, 20in span

Scientific in 1938 kitted a 40 inch rubber powered one, hence the Miss America II designation in PDG's half size version.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=14311

is the only rubber powered in the Scientific cabin series by PDG, and it is the only non-scale one, a sized down version of the 1940 Scientific 40 inch rubber powered version based on late Frank Zaic's 7 foot wingspan Miss America gasser kitted by Scientific in 1936, that Joe Wagner redrew as original plans were not available. Joe also made a 42 inch downsized F/F glow powered version, which Bill Winter modelled an R/C version patterned after,

As a 11 year old in the mid 1960's, I made the 20" Cessna 180. It wasn't a good flyer, because I color doped the sheet balsa elevator and rudder, making it heavy. These should only be covered in color tissue and lightly clear doped.

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, do the plans mention Paul Del Gatto (PDG) as the designer? I downloaded its companion:

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13377 P-40 Warhawk by Paul Del Gatto from Scientific 18in span

These ought to be good flyers as they are lightweight framed.

Paul Del Gatto

Yes they do. I always check that. When I saw his name I thought of your posts.

Great project Bob, I love stick and tissue but haven’t built one in ages…. May inspire me to build my Guillows P-51 …About the same scale has your 109….

Actually Robert, that Guillow series is an equivalent to PDG's Scientific series. Both are simplified build for easier construction, but in this case with the Guillow lighter framing, they make excellent flyers. I've built a couple in the series, even a couple T-28 Trojans. Still have a Hawker Typhoon kit yet to build. I love the simplification.

Upping the size a little and a few framing changes, they'd make excellent R/C aircraft. One could also use the outlines for half-A C/L.

Galloping Ghostler wrote: Actually Robert, that Guillow series is an equivalent to PDG's Scientific series.

Absolutely George, The Guillows plan is dated 1970…. The Scientific 109 may be a little older but I’m sure their sales time overlapped a good bit….. Yes, The scale has been simplified to make them easier to build and fly better,…… You bet, Their outlines would probably make a fine candidate for 1/2A - CL….

rdw777 wrote:Great project Bob, I love stick and tissue but haven’t built one in ages…. May inspire me to build my Guillows P-51 …About the same scale has your 109….

Ah Robert, close to home. I have one of those stuck away too. But the broken down ME-109 has a better chance of me building it as the hard part (for me) is already done. Jim and I cooperated on our Black Hawk Mosquito builds, maybe we can do the same with the Mustang/ME-109.

Already sanding down the sides to save some weight….. I haven’t built a kit in forever….. Looking forward to it

Yeah Jim, Two's company, three is a crowd. Welcome to the crowd!! I would love to see these builds come together. You actually flew your twin Mosquito, mine sits shamefully intact and clean of castor goo. But...........I still have hope.

Bob

Jim, what is the Tiffy? The Typhoon?

944_Jim wrote:Hi George, Here:
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t14121-guillow-s-typhoon-900-series?highlight=944Jim+Typhoon
Wow...four years and counting. Yep. Got to get this one done!

Jim, we all have our hall of shame, at least I do:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6494-1959-berkeley-impulse-single-channel-pylon-racer-build
I started that 10 years ago, still have the bones sitting on top of the bookcase.

I have built a few of these 900 series Guillow's kits. I used a 6 inch plastic prop on my Mustang. I think I used about 60 inches of 3/32 sport tan if I remember right. From my experience the Skyraider few the best. The T-28 Trojan did very well also.  

I'm not in a place where I can resume building yet, but I have an unbuilt Guillow Typhoon. Over the years I've built several T-28 Trojans, DeHavilland Chipmunk and Cessna Bird Dog. The T-28's and Chipmunk were good flyers.

Comet has some simplified warbirds with 18" wingspan, good flyers, too. P-51B comes to mind, but the P-40 Warhawk is another. Used 1/8"x1/16" wing leading and trailing edges contributing to lightness, stiffened up quite a bit once tissue covered.

Look at all these parts needing to be cut-out... When I bought the kit (from Tower back in the 1990's...) I thought it was a die-cut kit..





It'd be a cool model for nano RC now.. but not back when I bought it. There are a few kits on eBay for fairly high asking prices.. but I hope to build mine someday.  

Nice.  Really nice!



As P-38 guys roddie we love the plane but that Comet kit...........  It shows up occasionally on ebay.  It would have been a do-able challenge for me 20 years ago.  But today

There is some saving grace with copies of Comet plans and printed sheets. One can print the sheets full scale on plain bond paper.

Then, using a paper glue stick, attach the paper to 1/16th inch thick balsa sheet.

Using a sharp knife, cut through the paper outlines to the balsa. In short, you'll have manufactured a kit, plus once the paper is peeled away from the wood, now you don't have those nasty printed ink outlines and part ID labels showing through your translucent tissue covering. (BTDT ) Also an advantage is you can use select balsa instead of the heavier rock hard that was like cutting through a sheet of birch hardwood, so common on Comet kits.  

Comet kits were simple enough, most didn't even come with decals. They were printed black and white on the plan to be cut out, so you'd be looking for alternate sources or making your own decals anyway.

And, landing gears were poorly designed on them. Either you leave them off, or engineer your own.

Most cockpit canopies were flat patterns on the plan, basically photocopy and use that to cut your celluloid sheet to.

Very nice Bsadonkill!!…..You’ll have to share your trim scheme you used on the P-51…. I see an adjustable rudder and maybe a couple of gurney flaps?…. I’ve trimmed high wing rubber FF many times but this is the first low wing warbird type…. I bet you got a long motor run with that length of rubber…. I’ve got plenty of Tan II 1/8 and 3/16 but no
3/32…… 6” is probably a good prop size for the low winger to help not overdo tork, I’ll probably use the same, …. I like carving props so will make one when I get to that point….

roddie wrote:Look at all these parts needing to be cut-out... When I bought the kit (from Tower back in the 1990's...) I thought it was a die-cut kit..

Some Comet kits were die cut, but in the series your warbird came from, they were die printed. It stated this on the box in small print, but it was there.

My 32" Sparky, 18" P-40 Warhawk and my 18" P-51B were printed sheets. But in a way this was OK, because similar to other manufacturers, Comet had its share of die crunched balsa. At least by cutting out parts, you could ensure better accuracy of stringer notches.

North American’s tryin’ to get the jump on that Messerschmitt

I know you said yours was a winter project Bob, But it got me thinking about this one that’s been on the shelf about 10 years to go ahead and take off on it

I know you said yours was a winter project Bob, But it got me thinking about this one that’s been on the shelf about 10 years to go ahead and take off on it Very Happy

I might have to move that back a bit, perhaps to when I turn 90 in a couple of years.

Mark and I just got through insulating the cabins walls and walking this 11+ acres. Got about 50 dead trees to come down and burn and new floor and ceiling in the Cabin to do. It's never over till it's over.

roddie wrote:Look at all these parts needing to be cut-out... When I bought the kit (from Tower back in the 1990's...) I thought it was a die-cut kit..





It'd be a cool model for nano RC now.. but not back when I bought it. There are a few kits on eBay for fairly high asking prices.. but I hope to build mine someday.  

Well you've had 34 years to cut them out..!
Even if you only averaged 3 parts per year, you'd be done by now..!