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Cox Engine of The Month
Nitro to Electric conversion
Page 1 of 1
Nitro to Electric conversion
My winter project is the Lazy Bee from Clancy Aviation & so far the build is going fine but I need some help sizing the electric motor. The plans call for 049 to 15 & I would like to stay in the middle to upper power range. Is there a chart that shows gives this kind of info. Also I need info on the ESC battery, servos, this will be my first venture into the "Other World".
Not much help from the RC Forums that I've checked.
Thanks RK Flyer
Not much help from the RC Forums that I've checked.
Thanks RK Flyer
RK Flyer- Gold Member
- Posts : 274
Join date : 2013-07-16
Location : Somerset, Kentucky
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
blasphemy we speak of Nitro, CastorOil and Methanol. Electric is only used to get us started glowing......RK you are being drawn over to the DARK side..unspeakable terms of ESC, mAh, Watts of power, ( watts of power not LOTs of power. ) RPM governors, 4cell, 2cell, programmable thingys that I have no idea how to program. Like most others, I am afraid of things I do not understand. I have looked at them like all the evils of "Pandora's Box" ( that's going to be the name of my 1st electric plane, if I, oh, if I, ever succumb to the dark side) This is the COX ENGINE FORUM. We like ICE, so, I don't mean to be rude, insulting, attacking or inflammatory. I'm certain that there are members here who know that stuff ( electric ) and will happily jump in with the info you require, otherwise I'll tell you where to go:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/esc-settings/norm-whittle's-excellent-cookbook/?action=dlattach;attach=89029
Then go here:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/esc-settings/norm-whittle's-excellent-cookbook/?action=dlattach;attach=89030
If your still here, go here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php
I've been there and came back here, cause I didn't understand any of that weird wired
Stuff. I wish you success in your quest for electric flight.
Yeah, I know....they're clean, they're quiet and they start 1st time every time.....what's the fun in that!?
http://stunthanger.com/smf/esc-settings/norm-whittle's-excellent-cookbook/?action=dlattach;attach=89029
Then go here:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/esc-settings/norm-whittle's-excellent-cookbook/?action=dlattach;attach=89030
If your still here, go here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php
I've been there and came back here, cause I didn't understand any of that weird wired
Stuff. I wish you success in your quest for electric flight.
Yeah, I know....they're clean, they're quiet and they start 1st time every time.....what's the fun in that!?
Marleysky- Top Poster
-
Posts : 3618
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 72
Location : Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Here's a good starting point, this is how I sized my Akromaster. And it work great..
First figure out what motor to get:
You'll need about 11 watts per ounce of airplane weight. So for a 20 ounce airplane, that's 220 watts. So look at motors that are rated for no less than 220 watts peak power
For this sized airplane you want to spin the prop between 10000 and 12000 RPM (that drops to about 9000 for a "full sized" stunter)
For this sized airplane you probably want a 3-cell pack (bigger airplanes = more cells). This isn't a general rule -- you could probably make this work with two cells, or with four, if you size your motor and ESC right
A 3-cell pack is an 11.1 volt pack (there's 3.7 volts per cell, and it adds up -- 3.7V/cell * 3 cells = 11.1V)
You want to spin 12000 RPM at the end of the flight and at full current -- this means you can only count on 8.3V or so (that's 75% of full voltage -- (11.1V)(0.75) = 8.3-ish volts)
The motor speed is the motor Kv times voltage. So you want to find Kv from Kv = (target speed) / (voltage). In our case that's (12000 RPM) / (8.3V) = 1450 RPM/volt
Now you know enough to go motor shopping -- woo hoo! Look for motors that can handle 220W peak, and have a Kv of 1450 or better
If you just can't find a suitable motor, go back to the step where we decided on the number of cells, and try it again with four
Now figure out what ESC to get:
power equals current times voltage. We can turn that around: current equals power divided by voltage. So when we're asking for 220 watts from the motor, we need a current of (220W) / (11.1V) = 19.8-ish amps -- call it 20A (more cells means higher voltage, which means less current for the same power -- this is why bigger planes have more cells)
So you know that you need a 20A ESC that can handle three cells
If you are using a KR timer, or if you don't care about a "perfect" run, then almost any ESC will work (there's some really cheapo ones that the KR timer doesn't like)
If you are using a Hubin timer then you need to get an ESC that has a governor mode (the KR timer has a governor -- the Hubin timer depends on the ESC)
Go select an ESC
Now you need a battery pack:
You're going to use about 0.6 or 0.7 watt-hours per flight if you do a full six minutes.
Watt-hours can be calculated like power: watt-hours = amp-hours * volts. You can turn that around: amp-hours = (watt-hours)/(volts)
You have a 20 ounce plane, so you need about 14 watt-hours. You have an 11.1V battery, so that works out to (14W-h)/(11.1V) = 1.26 amp-hours, or 1260 mA-h (1 amp = 1000 mA, so 1 amp-hour = 1000 mA-hour)
You only want to discharge the battery by 75%, so you need more than 1260 mA-h: (1260mA-h) / (0.75) = 1680 mA-h
So you need a 3-cell pack with better than 1680 mA-h capacity. 1800 would be plenty. You could probably squeak by with 1600, because the Acromaster will probably fly the whole pattern in less than six minutes
You want at least a 20C discharge rate, and mo is betta
Go buy a 20C or better 3-cell pack with more than 1680mA-h of capacity
First figure out what motor to get:
You'll need about 11 watts per ounce of airplane weight. So for a 20 ounce airplane, that's 220 watts. So look at motors that are rated for no less than 220 watts peak power
For this sized airplane you want to spin the prop between 10000 and 12000 RPM (that drops to about 9000 for a "full sized" stunter)
For this sized airplane you probably want a 3-cell pack (bigger airplanes = more cells). This isn't a general rule -- you could probably make this work with two cells, or with four, if you size your motor and ESC right
A 3-cell pack is an 11.1 volt pack (there's 3.7 volts per cell, and it adds up -- 3.7V/cell * 3 cells = 11.1V)
You want to spin 12000 RPM at the end of the flight and at full current -- this means you can only count on 8.3V or so (that's 75% of full voltage -- (11.1V)(0.75) = 8.3-ish volts)
The motor speed is the motor Kv times voltage. So you want to find Kv from Kv = (target speed) / (voltage). In our case that's (12000 RPM) / (8.3V) = 1450 RPM/volt
Now you know enough to go motor shopping -- woo hoo! Look for motors that can handle 220W peak, and have a Kv of 1450 or better
If you just can't find a suitable motor, go back to the step where we decided on the number of cells, and try it again with four
Now figure out what ESC to get:
power equals current times voltage. We can turn that around: current equals power divided by voltage. So when we're asking for 220 watts from the motor, we need a current of (220W) / (11.1V) = 19.8-ish amps -- call it 20A (more cells means higher voltage, which means less current for the same power -- this is why bigger planes have more cells)
So you know that you need a 20A ESC that can handle three cells
If you are using a KR timer, or if you don't care about a "perfect" run, then almost any ESC will work (there's some really cheapo ones that the KR timer doesn't like)
If you are using a Hubin timer then you need to get an ESC that has a governor mode (the KR timer has a governor -- the Hubin timer depends on the ESC)
Go select an ESC
Now you need a battery pack:
You're going to use about 0.6 or 0.7 watt-hours per flight if you do a full six minutes.
Watt-hours can be calculated like power: watt-hours = amp-hours * volts. You can turn that around: amp-hours = (watt-hours)/(volts)
You have a 20 ounce plane, so you need about 14 watt-hours. You have an 11.1V battery, so that works out to (14W-h)/(11.1V) = 1.26 amp-hours, or 1260 mA-h (1 amp = 1000 mA, so 1 amp-hour = 1000 mA-hour)
You only want to discharge the battery by 75%, so you need more than 1260 mA-h: (1260mA-h) / (0.75) = 1680 mA-h
So you need a 3-cell pack with better than 1680 mA-h capacity. 1800 would be plenty. You could probably squeak by with 1600, because the Acromaster will probably fly the whole pattern in less than six minutes
You want at least a 20C discharge rate, and mo is betta
Go buy a 20C or better 3-cell pack with more than 1680mA-h of capacity
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
I as well don't know a thing about the electrics .... but I've seen a few full size stunters fly ..... and they are impressive in a lot of ways.
If it weren't for lack of funds to buy all the bits needed, I would probably try it.
Funds .... plus Duke's excellent post above ... would get me started. Nice post Duke.
If it weren't for lack of funds to buy all the bits needed, I would probably try it.
Funds .... plus Duke's excellent post above ... would get me started. Nice post Duke.
larrys4227- Gold Member
- Posts : 338
Join date : 2015-07-23
Location : Lakeland, FL
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
duke.johnson wrote:Here's a good starting point, this is how I sized my Akromaster. And it work great..
First figure out what motor to get:
You'll need about 11 watts per ounce of airplane weight. So for a 20 ounce airplane, that's 220 watts. So look at motors that are rated for no less than 220 watts peak power
For this sized airplane you want to spin the prop between 10000 and 12000 RPM (that drops to about 9000 for a "full sized" stunter)
For this sized airplane you probably want a 3-cell pack (bigger airplanes = more cells). This isn't a general rule -- you could probably make this work with two cells, or with four, if you size your motor and ESC right
A 3-cell pack is an 11.1 volt pack (there's 3.7 volts per cell, and it adds up -- 3.7V/cell * 3 cells = 11.1V)
You want to spin 12000 RPM at the end of the flight and at full current -- this means you can only count on 8.3V or so (that's 75% of full voltage -- (11.1V)(0.75) = 8.3-ish volts)
The motor speed is the motor Kv times voltage. So you want to find Kv from Kv = (target speed) / (voltage). In our case that's (12000 RPM) / (8.3V) = 1450 RPM/volt
Now you know enough to go motor shopping -- woo hoo! Look for motors that can handle 220W peak, and have a Kv of 1450 or better
If you just can't find a suitable motor, go back to the step where we decided on the number of cells, and try it again with four
Now figure out what ESC to get:
power equals current times voltage. We can turn that around: current equals power divided by voltage. So when we're asking for 220 watts from the motor, we need a current of (220W) / (11.1V) = 19.8-ish amps -- call it 20A (more cells means higher voltage, which means less current for the same power -- this is why bigger planes have more cells)
So you know that you need a 20A ESC that can handle three cells
If you are using a KR timer, or if you don't care about a "perfect" run, then almost any ESC will work (there's some really cheapo ones that the KR timer doesn't like)
If you are using a Hubin timer then you need to get an ESC that has a governor mode (the KR timer has a governor -- the Hubin timer depends on the ESC)
Go select an ESC
Now you need a battery pack:
You're going to use about 0.6 or 0.7 watt-hours per flight if you do a full six minutes.
Watt-hours can be calculated like power: watt-hours = amp-hours * volts. You can turn that around: amp-hours = (watt-hours)/(volts)
You have a 20 ounce plane, so you need about 14 watt-hours. You have an 11.1V battery, so that works out to (14W-h)/(11.1V) = 1.26 amp-hours, or 1260 mA-h (1 amp = 1000 mA, so 1 amp-hour = 1000 mA-hour)
You only want to discharge the battery by 75%, so you need more than 1260 mA-h: (1260mA-h) / (0.75) = 1680 mA-h
So you need a 3-cell pack with better than 1680 mA-h capacity. 1800 would be plenty. You could probably squeak by with 1600, because the Acromaster will probably fly the whole pattern in less than six minutes
You want at least a 20C discharge rate, and mo is betta
Go buy a 20C or better 3-cell pack with more than 1680mA-h of capacity
I like simple. That ain't simple, or cheap.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
- Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 62
Location : Drouin, Victoria
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
As far as cheap, if you want cheap, you can buy a Hobby King set up for a 1/2a (Tee Dee) for about $50 or less. Which is about the cost of a Tee Dee. As for simple, after you figure out the formulas and do the math, you can figure this out in minutes. Electric is and/or can be very simple. Some like glow, some e-power, some gas, some rubber, and some like me who like everything. It's all fun, it's all modeling.
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Duke
You hit the nail with that last post!
I am fascinated by all other aspects of the hobby.
I personally have not planned to do Free Flight, slope soaring, rubber power, indoor, 3D, nitro boats, but would enjoy any of these if I had the time and or other resources (like a proper body of water close enough to do boats)
You hit the nail with that last post!
I am fascinated by all other aspects of the hobby.
I personally have not planned to do Free Flight, slope soaring, rubber power, indoor, 3D, nitro boats, but would enjoy any of these if I had the time and or other resources (like a proper body of water close enough to do boats)
fredvon4- Top Poster
-
Posts : 4012
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 69
Location : Lampasas Texas
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Duke- Someone already beat me to it, by giving you greenies for your most excellent response. Clearly written so that even I can comprehend what (watt) you're saying!
11watts per ounce of airplane, never would have thought to start there. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.
11watts per ounce of airplane, never would have thought to start there. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.
Marleysky- Top Poster
-
Posts : 3618
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 72
Location : Grand Rapids, MI
Electric Motors
Many thanks to Duke!!
I don't think electric power is something "New" just another way to build & fly like RC, Its all about FUNN!
I'll do the math and buy the gear to finish up the "Lazy Bee" but it will take some time before flying! Sometimes I think I like the building more than flying!!
RK Flyer
I don't think electric power is something "New" just another way to build & fly like RC, Its all about FUNN!
I'll do the math and buy the gear to finish up the "Lazy Bee" but it will take some time before flying! Sometimes I think I like the building more than flying!!
RK Flyer
RK Flyer- Gold Member
- Posts : 274
Join date : 2013-07-16
Location : Somerset, Kentucky
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
A few of the pre packaged systems and from what I read on other forums all are pretty good place to start if not rolling your own
That said keep eye hard to the sizes and configurations and shop HobyKing usa warehouses for very good prices on most all of the bits needed
RSM distribution is on vacation until 14 dec
http://www.rsmdistribution.com/rsmmain.php?osCsid=2rpsn3rvs6as6dl9lm50s20j64
Brodak
http://brodak.com/electric-accessories-1/complete-power-packages.html
That said keep eye hard to the sizes and configurations and shop HobyKing usa warehouses for very good prices on most all of the bits needed
RSM distribution is on vacation until 14 dec
http://www.rsmdistribution.com/rsmmain.php?osCsid=2rpsn3rvs6as6dl9lm50s20j64
Brodak
http://brodak.com/electric-accessories-1/complete-power-packages.html
fredvon4- Top Poster
-
Posts : 4012
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 69
Location : Lampasas Texas
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Thanks guys. I can't take credit for the above info though, that came from a friend that flies out of Portland and is a electrical engineer. He was trying to help a dumb plumber (plumb dumber) understand sizing electrical systems without having to call someone everytime I wanted to build a E-model. In RC I've heard said, 150 watts per pound for slow gentle flight, 200 watts per pound for sport flight, and 250 watts per pound for high preformance stunt flying. Now all this weather RC or CL is based on all up weight. And I sure just one of many ways to figure it out. I have used the figure out 1/2A and .15 size CL models, and large RC gliders. It's work well for me and they preform as I wanted.
RK-Ironic, you're a SMART plumber getting this info. I say smart because you're retired and I'm still working.
I enjoy way too many aspects of modeling, but I can't seem to limit myself to one thing. I'm just finishing an RC parachute jumper.
RK-Ironic, you're a SMART plumber getting this info. I say smart because you're retired and I'm still working.
I enjoy way too many aspects of modeling, but I can't seem to limit myself to one thing. I'm just finishing an RC parachute jumper.
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Yes the way you explained it even a caveman could do it!!
crankbndr- Top Poster
- Posts : 3109
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Homestead FL
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Right, one step below a plumber. I just carry a pipe wrench.
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
I didn't mean you I'm a carpenter and always enjoyed the company of plumbers now electricians they were an uppity bunch lol
crankbndr- Top Poster
- Posts : 3109
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Homestead FL
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Duke.... I don't know about being smart, At 65 & 40 years in, I looked around & didn't see any see any plumbers my age so I figured it was time !
I did the numbers & some checking around & found a Turnigy G10 with a 3 cell battery, 1200 rpm max. current 52A, max v 15, 375 watts, KV1200. How does this sound? Its at Hobby King for $26.50.
RK Flyer
I did the numbers & some checking around & found a Turnigy G10 with a 3 cell battery, 1200 rpm max. current 52A, max v 15, 375 watts, KV1200. How does this sound? Its at Hobby King for $26.50.
RK Flyer
RK Flyer- Gold Member
- Posts : 274
Join date : 2013-07-16
Location : Somerset, Kentucky
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
Ugh !crankbndr wrote:Yes the way you explained it even a caveman could do it!!
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
- Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 62
Location : Drouin, Victoria
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blog/2011/05/29/choosing-a-motor-speed-control-battery-pack-taking-the-mystery-out/
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
FRed said;:
A few of the pre packaged systems and from what I read on other forums all are pretty good place to start if not rolling your own
That's were I would start if you don't have a compatible system , I got to do some plumbing in my kitchen, 1200 Rs or 12,000 Rs ? that's low but may get the job done? getback
A few of the pre packaged systems and from what I read on other forums all are pretty good place to start if not rolling your own
That's were I would start if you don't have a compatible system , I got to do some plumbing in my kitchen, 1200 Rs or 12,000 Rs ? that's low but may get the job done? getback
getback- Top Poster
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Posts : 10431
Join date : 2013-01-17
Age : 67
Location : julian , NC
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
I din't take it that way.crankbndr wrote:I didn't mean you I'm a carpenter and always enjoyed the company of plumbers now electricians they were an uppity bunch lol
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
What's the spec on the plane? all up weight? 375 watts seems like a lot for something that could use a 1/2ARK Flyer wrote:Duke.... I don't know about being smart, At 65 & 40 years in, I looked around & didn't see any see any plumbers my age so I figured it was time !
I did the numbers & some checking around & found a Turnigy G10 with a 3 cell battery, 1200 rpm max. current 52A, max v 15, 375 watts, KV1200. How does this sound? Its at Hobby King for $26.50.
RK Flyer
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
RK
Look up Lazy Bee on RC Groups. I did a quick search and found tons of stuff. Recommend motors and such.
Look up Lazy Bee on RC Groups. I did a quick search and found tons of stuff. Recommend motors and such.
duke.johnson- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1734
Join date : 2012-11-05
Age : 53
Location : Rochester, Washington
Re: Nitro to Electric conversion
One way to do this would be to check what size glow engine the plan calls for, then find out what kind of horsepower a typical engine of that size puts out and then get an electric motor / ESC combo with a similar output.
Many of the engine reviews on
http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/
have the engine brake horsepowers listed. I think 1.34hp equals to 1kW.
For example, according to one of the reviews, our beloved Babe Bees have a power output of around 0.056 bhp, or about 42 Watts
Many of the engine reviews on
http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/
have the engine brake horsepowers listed. I think 1.34hp equals to 1kW.
For example, according to one of the reviews, our beloved Babe Bees have a power output of around 0.056 bhp, or about 42 Watts
KariFS- Diamond Member
- Posts : 2044
Join date : 2014-10-10
Age : 53
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