Lead Out Wire

Phil:

There are grooved eyelets made for that purpose. Check and see which source carries them.

I'm thinking Tower Hobbies maybe?

I have some smooth steel o-rings that work well.

I had three 1/2A class C/L models that needed crimp-tubes installed on their .015" stranded SS lead-outs. The "bell-crank" ends had been done previously. It's a tedious task.. and I need to be in a certain frame of mind to get into it. Since I quit smoking cigarettes 18 months ago.. I don't have near the patience that I used to.

I use .062" (O.D.) brass tubing for my crimp-tubes. I cut them to approx. .625" length. The .015" stranded SS cable will pass-thru this size tube X3 times, which locks the line securely once crimped. It's important to "dress" (open-up) both sides of the tube, to remove any burrs from cutting it to length. I made a tool from a safety-pin.




The 1st model to be done was my tiny "Flying Blind"..




The 2nd model.. my Lockheed P-38-J..




The 3rd model.. my "Fulcrum Flyer".. (it got a lot easier by this time..)






I decided to use the music-wire pushrod.. rather than the CF pushrod that I had fabricated.



One step closer to getting to the flying field.

Roddy.
Do you just thread the wire through the tube, loop it and thread it back? I was under the impression that the wire should do one full loop around the outside of the crimp tube, as in, through the tube, loop, back through the tube, around the outside and then back through the tube before crimping. Am I overdoing it?

Here's TD Bandit's video I found.

Oldenginerod wrote:Roddy.
Do you just thread the wire through the tube, loop it and thread it back?  I was under the impression that the wire should do one full loop around the outside of the crimp tube, as in, through the tube, loop, back through the tube, around the outside and then back through the tube before crimping.  Am I overdoing it?

I enjoyed Dave's video.. and yes; he loops his cable around the outside of the crimp-tube and back through. That's a better way to do it. My crimp-tubes were small enough that I could barely fit the line through a third time. When cinching-up tight; the inside loop gets smaller.. until it "binds" against itself at the tube opening.

I usually stagger the terminations.. to avoid the possibility of them snagging on each other. My airplanes are small/lightweight.. so I feel that these crimps will be fine.

Just throwing out a wild idea here - how about using the eyelets found on guitar strings?


Or even simply using guitar strings for leadouts?

dirk gently wrote:Just throwing out a wild idea here - how about using the eyelets found on guitar strings?


Or even simply using guitar strings for leadouts?

You're not the first to consider the possibility.  A Brodak kit I got uses fine wire just like a guitar string for the leadouts. I figured the eyelet end might work, but could be a little difficult to get the line clip on.  I generally prefer fine piano wire for leadouts, but I have dozens of old Guitar strings laying around. Maybe I need to do some more thinking!!

dirk gently wrote:Just throwing out a wild idea here - how about using the eyelets found on guitar strings?


Or even simply using guitar strings for leadouts?

I like the "eyelet".. but I didn't have any. The guitar string eyelets would work.. but I believe that they're thicker than the purpose-made eyelets for our application.

The "eyes" formed in the .015" diameter SS stranded-cable lead-outs shown in my examples, will be inspected at pre-determined intervals.. but at the least; seasonally.

The model that would raise the most concern with my lead-out construction-technique would be my P-38-J. It will be pulling harder on the lines than a single reed-valve engine airplane. I still feel that my lead-out lines; their crimps/eyes will be more than strong enough. My concerns are more with the landing-gear.. (wheels.. in particular)

Roddie,
Given that you are using what appears to be 7-steand stainless, I have a question for you.

Do you think your lead-outs would saw through WD-40 straws slowly, or quickly? I ask because my mini Mossie needs some really small lead-out tubes, and I also plan on using 7-strand. My wingtips are fairly thin, and the lines need to come out the wingtips. If the straw can't hack braided lines, then I may go solid lead-outs.

Thanks in advance! Oh, your wheels.may wind up in the Speed Dolly!

It's been bugging me, so it's a good time to ask the question - Whats the case for using stranded lead-outs over solid wire and visa versa?

I switched from stranded to solid quite a few builds ago for .09 and less engines.



Pretty pedestrian compared with what you guys come up with but it works for me.

Bob... I think most shy away from solids for two reasons:
Noise during transport in the car
Any kink is a concern ( weak point)
The last is not worth fussing with on a light 1/2a plane....the smallest gage music wire is 100 times the strength needed to not fail in flight...even with a minor kink...IMO

fredvon4 wrote:Bob... I think most shy away from solids for two reasons:
Noise during transport in the car
Any kink is a concern ( weak point)
The last is not worth fussing with on a light 1/2a plane....the smallest gage music wire is 100 times the strength needed to not fail in flight...even with a minor kink...IMO

Two very important reasons Fred. I think your tongue in cheek answer makes the case for solids. But it probably comes down to personal preference and what you have on hand.

Bob

As long as the guides are large enough, kinks are not really an issue, and the clips can be bent up right on to the leadout. For larger planes I use downrigger line which I picked up at a garage sale on a downrigger setup. It is about .030" but for 1/2A, .015" or .018" would be fine braided or solid IMHO. I have one plane with thimbles right on the bellcrank, which is really the faster option with an open bellcrank, speedwise. You can put the clip right on the bellcrank too. If the lines wear out from use, then it is time to replace them anyway.

I like to use number 11 Malin leader wire on smaller planes. The wire is highly polished lessening the chance of it sawing through the bellcrank.  It's made of monel and is rustproof. Rust is a problem here with all the salt air.  I terminate the ends like shown on the guitar strings using the Haywire twist. No need for eyelets or crimps. Not sure if it meets AMA specs. Copper wrapped and soldered termination would also work.

944_Jim wrote:Roddie,
Given that you are using what appears to be 7-steand stainless, I have a question for you.

Do you think your lead-outs would saw through WD-40 straws slowly, or quickly? I ask because my mini Mossie needs some really small lead-out tubes, and I also plan on using 7-strand. My wingtips are fairly thin, and the lines need to come out the wingtips. If the straw can't hack braided lines,  then I may go solid lead-outs.

Thanks in advance! Oh, your wheels may wind up in the Speed Dolly!

I'd be more concerned with anchoring those plastic guide-tubes. (don't use those...) I don't know what I'd use to keep WD-40 straws from pulling-out. I'd opt instead; for equal-size "alloy-tubes" for guides. I would have included a pair of alloy tubes with the wheels if I had known about this sooner. Some food for thought Jim; Portable air-conditioners (window-units) often utilize coils of small-diameter copper tubing for refrigerant. Your local landfill might have an area for recycling "dead" air-conditioners. Bring cutters with you.. and snip-off the coil if you can find one that looks to be the right size. You can straighten the tubing later-on at home. Cut your tubes to length and rough them up with coarse abrasive-paper. You can also use a blade to scratch the surface to aid in glue-retention. The "plastic-tube" would work.. but why worry about the abrasion-factor?

I don't know how your Mossie's wing-tips are constructed.. but if the tip is "framed" conventionally.. with a flat-plate for the guides to lay-on; you could "tack" the tubes in-place with CA.. followed by mixing-up some epoxy to brush-on over the tubes to permanently secure them. "Candle-Wax" could be melted/dripped onto the stranded-cable where it will pass-through the guides, as an anti-abrasion measure.. if you're concerned about that. Any "sawing-action" on a models' lead-out guides is a "right-of-passage"... as far as I'm concerned. Many models don't last long-enough to earn that privilege..

I use braided fishing leader material pretty much exclusively now too for leadouts, unless I just run my fishing line in a loop through the handle and tie directly to the bellcrank. I too agree with Fred on his reasons. Mainly the one with kinking. The day I had one kink was the last day I used solids. Would I ever use them again, probably, but not as long as I have braided wire on hand. And also, I can install them and finish them faster than I can when using solids.

rsv1cox wrote:It's been bugging me, so it's a good time to ask the question - Whats the case for using stranded lead-outs over solid wire and visa versa?  

I switched from stranded to solid quite a few builds ago for .09 and less engines.  



Pretty pedestrian compared with what you guys come up with but it works for me.  

Your lead-outs look GREAT Robert. I would say that it's a matter of preference.. when it comes to a sport/scale-model. The people who fly C/L combat are concerned with razor-sharp control-input. Solid lead-outs may not deliver the "feed-back".. especially with the "fast-combat" models. Ken Cook would be the man to comment about that.

That said; I do prefer solid lead-outs. My latest models are using the 7-strand braided-stainless because I wanted to try making bell-crank-buttons. I also have a few old-spools of .015"/.018" 7-strand S.S. line X 60+ feet.. which have been languishing on the wall in my workshop. Why not try to utilize them? I'd never trust that line for actual C/L flying wire.. but for 1/2A-sport lead-out cable, I think it will work just fine. I'd sourced those spools over 30 years ago.. with some model-parts buys.

Not to take away from this thread, but I have a question for you Bob. What model is that pictured with the yellow fuselage and orange wing. I would like to see the engine mount. It looks like some sort of clear plastic, and if so, I would like to know more. Thank you.

Hey Roddie. In all my years of u-control flying, I have only used single strand music wire for my lead outs. I have two sizes of round nose pliers and a duck bill, not needle nose pliers, to make the loops. Leave enough length after your loop is made, and simply wrap 5 times around to seal your loop, cut excess wire off, I use an old ignition file to d-burr. If you fly 1/2 A and are using .008 braided control line, simply double the line diameter for your lead outs. I make mine for 1/2 A out of .015 music wire. The same goes for a .15 size plane, double the .012 control line, and make your lead outs at .025 music wire. My Sterling "T Square" that I built sometime in the late 80's, still flies with the original lead outs of .031 diameter music wire, along with the Fox Stunt .35. Just adding what works for me, and if braided works for you, that's great, as many still use braided lead outs today. Interesting thread.

NEW222 wrote:Not to take away from this thread, but I have a question for you Bob. What model is that pictured with the yellow fuselage and orange wing. I would like to see the engine mount. It looks like some sort of clear plastic, and if so, I would like to know more. Thank you.

It's an outgrowth of this Jim Walker Firebaby I got last winter.  I just traced the outline of the fuselage on a piece of Hobby Lobby's foam project board and added the rest from plans.





The engine mount is a cut up plastic tray.  I always thought of this as "experimental" nothing I would recommend as a serious build for obvious reasons.  

Bob

Thanks for the information. I think it would be good enough for 1/2a, as I have seen people use less with success. The only difference is that yours looks like it is meant to be an engine mount.

Hey, Bandit. Thanks for the shout out at the end of your movie.
Rusty