COX .020 POWERED SPEEDSTER

TD ABUSER wrote:Some Old Timers would say to test glide it over tall grass.

That works for airplanes that have a good easy slow glide, like free flight cabin conversions and single channel sport or trainer rudder only or aileron only R/C. Your speedster is a different animal, glide may be fast enough that the standard pitch and toss may prove basically nothing. With flight surfaces true and correct and CG in the right place, glide after power off would be the way to go, IMO.

roddie wrote:So glad you found the model Charles!

Thanks...it's one of those MAGIC MOMENTS when you realize that the search is over.

Excellent! I'm so glad you found the model airplane!...it's true, these little models can be closer than we imagine.
I've been out in the open several times trying to find them, but the one that made me walk and walk was Cox's helicopter. It took off in an incredible way and then the walk from one place to another was endless, until two friends from the club found it for me...here's the video of the helicopter!

Can always fly it a bit rich aka trainer mode until your use to flying it and know the stall speed.
Can sand in some washout if it was not done. Can cheat and add a bit more lift by having both
ailerons slightly down.

Crow mode with the tips dressed will keep the wild tip stalls at bay.

[quote="MauricioB"]Excellent! I'm so glad you found the model airplane!...it's true, these little models can be closer than we imagine.
I've been out in the open several times trying to find them, but the one that made me walk and walk was Cox's helicopter. It took off in an incredible way and then the walk from one place to another was endless, until two friends from the club found it for me...here's the video of the helicopter!
 

That thing is TINY...!
It needs one of those little buzzers...!

1/2A Nut wrote:Can always fly it a bit rich aka trainer mode until your use to flying it and know the stall speed.
Can sand in some washout if it was not done. Can cheat and add a bit more lift by having both
ailerons slightly down.

Crow mode with the tips dressed will keep the wild tip stalls at bay.

You gave me an idea...to cut a slit in both wing tips and re-glue with wash out. The wing is painted, so that mod ought to be easy.

This DX5 transmitter of mine doesn't have much for fine tuning features so the plane needs to be set up correctly based on School of Hard Knocks.

WOOHOO you did find it !! Thats great ! Don't look like any damage to the outside of the plane and the engine came back to life Good Deal on that . It is a little funny it was only a short distance away after all the walking you did .....

[quote="getback" It is a little funny it was only a short distance away after all the walking you did ..... [/quote]

I basically did everything the hardest way possible.......
Every foot worth of distance you add to the search increases the amount of search area exponentially.
On the bright side I've been battling a pinched nerve in my rt hip the past year and have had about 50 hours of physical therapy which has helped but hasn't been a cure. Slogging through this marshy swampland is every bit as good as going to PT sessions and it was much less expensive

TD ABUSER wrote:On the bright side I've been battling a pinched nerve in my rt hip the past year and have had about 50 hours of physical therapy which has helped but hasn't been a cure. Slogging through this marshy swampland is every bit as good as going to  PT sessions and it was much less expensive  

Think of it as practicing for the American Ninja Warrior.
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/american-ninja-warrior/

I have a couple herniated disks, finally had surgery a couple years ago where they cut a channel in 3 vertibrae and removed bone spurs in 5 to make more room for the nerves and clipped off a herniation. (L3-L5 laminectomy with right L4-5 diskectomy)

Was hunched over and limping before that, but continued working out at the gym. After surgery, people were wondering how I was doing. I'd pull up the back of my shirt and show them the 14 stainless steel staples in my back. It was a relief to have them removed. Each staple dropped into the metal pan removed by the nurse practitioner sounded like the doc in Gunsmoke when he was removing buckshot pellets from Festus' rear dropping each into a pan.

First herniation in 1980's, I avoided surgery all these years until 3 years ago. Combination of PT and workouts resolved the pain, each incident took about a year to heal, so hang in there. Got to where if I suffered an injury, could avoid the doc and just take the medical dose by doubling up Ibuprophen for several days. Work out in a way that didn't increase pain. That was my physical therapy.

(No pain no gain doesn't work on disk injuries. Pain is good, indicates when to stop.)

Hang in there, and surgery is always an option, but best reserved when all else fails.

So happy you found it TD!!…. You had a lot of people rooting for you …..I really liked the thought  of making a model to try and get an idea of distance…. You made yourself a “measuring stick”….Smart!!….. That little electric foamy I showed earlier is a practice plane for small planes at a distance…. 16” wing span…. Same as my .020 powered Pageboy …

rdw777 wrote:So happy you found it TD!!…. You had a lot of people rooting for you …..I really liked the thought  of making a model to try and get an idea of distance…. You made yourself a “measuring stick”….Smart!!….. That little electric foamy I showed earlier is a practice plane for small planes at a distance…. 16” wing span…. Same as my .020 powered Pageboy …

Many years ago the president of our RC Club lost a .020 powered FF model over a huge hay field full of 5 foot tall grass. The model itself wasn't the usual "floater" with a great big wing...this little plane he let go of was meant to fly more like a rocket.

He had his helpers search way off in the distance...in the 300 to 600 foot range.
I didn't see this plane fly so I just took his word for it.

It was never found and now I wonder if his 70 year old eyes played tricks on him too...?

GallopingGhostler wrote:

TD ABUSER wrote:On the bright side I've been battling a pinched nerve in my rt hip the past year and have had about 50 hours of physical therapy which has helped but hasn't been a cure. Slogging through this marshy swampland is every bit as good as going to  PT sessions and it was much less expensive  

Think of it as practicing for the American Ninja Warrior.
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/american-ninja-warrior/

I have a couple herniated disks, finally had surgery a couple years ago where they cut a channel in 3 vertibrae and removed bone spurs in 5 to make more room for the nerves and clipped off a herniation. (L3-L5 laminectomy with right L4-5 diskectomy)

Was hunched over and limping before that, but continued working out at the gym. After surgery, people were wondering how I was doing. I'd pull up the back of my shirt and show them the 14 stainless steel staples in my back. It was a relief to have them removed. Each staple dropped into the metal pan removed by the nurse practitioner sounded like the doc in Gunsmoke when he was removing buckshot pellets from Festus' rear dropping each into a pan.

First herniation in 1980's, I avoided surgery all these years until 3 years ago. Combination of PT and workouts resolved the pain, each incident took about a year to heal, so hang in there. Got to where if I suffered an injury, could avoid the doc and just take the medical dose by doubling up Ibuprophen for several days. Work out in a way that didn't increase pain. That was my physical therapy.

(No pain no gain doesn't work on disk injuries. Pain is good, indicates when to stop.)

Hang in there, and surgery is always an option, but best reserved when all else fails.

You've been through a lot...!
In my case the doctor thinks I'm one of the unlucky people whose sciatic nerve is routed incorrectly through the hip joint.
I might have caused the problem to come to the fore front BY 100s OF HOURS WORTH OF TREADMILL TYPE WORKOUTS.....[stair climber and inclined treadmill set at 15 degrees]
"Man made" workouts are better than nothing...but maybe my problem wouldn't have cropped up if I got my workouts from hunting wild game year round...?

TD ABUSER wrote:In my case the doctor thinks I'm one of the unlucky people whose sciatic nerve is routed incorrectly through the hip joint.
I might have caused the problem to come to the fore front BY 100s OF HOURS WORTH OF TREADMILL TYPE WORKOUTS.....[stair climber and  inclined treadmill set at 15 degrees]

I'm no doc, but have been through a number of visits with orthopedic medicine docs and surgeons. Sounds like you could possibly have a disk herniation. The back nerves are like a master wiring harness. Pain in the upper body like neck, arms can be caused by a nerve pinched by a bulging or herniated disk located along the upper back. Mine was from the right knee down to the right foot, the lower vertebrae. Pain radiated down the leg and where it ends indicates which disk is causing the problem.

The buttocks area would be vertebrae located higher than mine. Have you seen an orthopedic surgeon or sports medicine doc? Had proper interpretation from X-rays, ultrasound, MRI, CAT-scan, etc.?

TD ABUSER wrote:"Man made" workouts are better than nothing...but maybe my problem wouldn't have cropped up if I got my workouts from hunting wild game year round...?

About 20 years ago, I herniated a disk when I was doing back flexes with too much weight on an older weight machine. I was pushing say around 120 lbs. on the machine. Nowadays, the exercise is done differently to reduce the improper strain that this machine did. I also use less weights and shoot for higher repetitions.

A martial artist will be muscular but does not use heavy weights. He may say, do 400 crunches. A postman does not do leg workouts, but those who walk long daily beats have very muscular legs.

I do elliptical exercise and bicycle, can't do treadmill or running because the pounding of my feet on the pavement jar my back increasing injury likelihood. You can do your own physical therapy, but doesn't hurt to bounce it off of the PT physician, who can give pointers on what to do and what not to do.

GallopingGhostler wrote:

TD ABUSER wrote:In my case the doctor thinks I'm one of the unlucky people whose sciatic nerve is routed incorrectly through the hip joint.
I might have caused the problem to come to the fore front BY 100s OF HOURS WORTH OF TREADMILL TYPE WORKOUTS.....[stair climber and  inclined treadmill set at 15 degrees]

I'm no doc, but have been through a number of visits with orthopedic medicine docs and surgeons. Sounds like you could possibly have a disk herniation. The back nerves are like a master wiring harness. Pain in the upper body like neck, arms can be caused by a nerve pinched by a bulging or herniated disk located along the upper back. Mine was from the right knee down to the right foot, the lower vertebrae. Pain radiated down the leg and where it ends indicates which disk is causing the problem.

The buttocks area would be vertebrae located higher than mine. Have you seen an orthopedic surgeon or sports medicine doc? Had proper interpretation from X-rays, ultrasound, MRI, CAT-scan, etc.?

TD ABUSER wrote:"Man made" workouts are better than nothing...but maybe my problem wouldn't have cropped up if I got my workouts from hunting wild game year round...?

About 20 years ago, I herniated a disk when I was doing back flexes with too much weight on an older weight machine. I was pushing say around 120 lbs. on the machine. Nowadays, the exercise is done differently to reduce the improper strain that this machine did. I also use less weights and shoot for higher repetitions.

A martial artist will be muscular but does not use heavy weights. He may say, do 400 crunches. A postman does not do leg workouts, but those who walk long daily beats have very muscular legs.

I do elliptical exercise and bicycle, can't do treadmill or running because the pounding of my feet on the pavement jar my back increasing injury likelihood. You can do your own physical therapy, but doesn't hurt to bounce it off of the PT physician, who can give pointers on what to do and what not to do.

I've found that the elliptical is about the lowest impact machine too.
I haven't had any advanced imagining done and ever since I started doing PT it has never returned to be bad enough to need crutches.
When it first flared up about a year ago I thought I was going to need a new hip...!

MauricioB wrote:Excellent! I'm so glad you found the model airplane!...it's true, these little models can be closer than we imagine.
I've been out in the open several times trying to find them, but the one that made me walk and walk was Cox's helicopter. It took off in an incredible way and then the walk from one place to another was endless, until two friends from the club found it for me...here's the video of the helicopter!
 

My legs are tired from searching with you! I can't imagine loosing a model. Free flight models risk that fate with every flight...

This is for Charles..

I was able to put 4 flights on the plane at a better field today.
It was drizzling and a little windy so no video
What I did differently...

Rechecked CG and decided to move the wing forward 1/4 inch.
3 inch wing at the root and 2 inches at the tips means that the MAC  is 2.5 inches and the MAC is located at about  1/2 span on both panels..[4 5/8" from the root]
25% of MAC puts the CG 5/8" back from the LE.

I also increased the area of the fin and stab.

1st flight was with maybe a 10 mph wind and the 4 x 2 prop launched slightly rich
As soon as the engine gets a gulp of air and unloaded the rpms go up and by now the plane has gone from a nice clean launch into doing "pylon laps" where the plane is flying at nearly full "knife edge" and it will maintain that attitude with very little input from me...just fly it with the elevator acting as the rudder.
Once the fuel ran out the glide back home was into the wind..so it was not much of a glide. You can't expect much penetration with such a light model.
Next flight was a repeat of the first except I rolled the plane right to do clock wise pylon laps. It flew those laps just as good...but the plane SNAP ROLLED when I decided to roll the plane back into doing counter clockwise laps. It crashed from about a height of 30 feet and nothing happened to the plane except it was covered with grass.
I tried flying with low rates for the next flight but that left me with not enough elevator to fight the wind and so that flight crashed too...[but no more damage than a couple drops of glue was able to fix.
A check for wing twist shows a small amount of washout that got warped in to both wing tips probably while applying the dope. [I've never needed to include wash out since I quit flying KIT BUILT MODELS THAT TURNED OUT TOO HEAVY many years ago].....
I'm at a point where I'm going to make a TRAINER WING.
3" constant chord, 24 inches span and smaller ailerons.

Glad you got some flights in TD, even if it didn’t totally meet your expectations…. Sounds like the speed part was fun, Just needs a little more stability……I think you’re close….. If you wanted to try a little more washout without too much surgery I bet it could be warped in…. Enjoying your projects and flight experiences

rdw777 wrote:Glad you got some flights in TD, even if it didn’t totally meet your expectations…. Sounds like the speed part was fun, Just needs a little more stability……I think you’re close….. If you wanted to try a little more washout without too much surgery I bet it could be warped in…. Enjoying your projects and flight experiences  

Actually I can sight down both sides of the model and compare the angle of the wingtips to the top of the fuselage and see that the wingtips naturally warped themselves into noticeable washout.
The launches have all been rock steady so I don't think I am having low speed stalls [and crashes]. I think the ailerons are causing snap rolls. If I had this plane hooked up to a more advanced radio I think I could "program out" this problem more easily.

The wing Looks twisted > A new one would help for sure , sounds like your still struggling to keep it straight in the air ( sure the wind is not helping ) with such a light plane .
At least your fling

getback wrote:The wing Looks twisted > A new one would help for sure , sounds like your still struggling to keep it straight in the air ( sure the wind is not helping ) with such a light plane .
At least your fling

This type of twist is what "real" airplanes use to make the wing stall more gradually...giving the pilot more time to react.
The wingtips have a negative angle of attack and so the inner part of the wing will stall first when the nose is too high and not enough airspeed to maintain lift....but by now the wingtips are at an angle that is still providing good lift.
It's called "washout" [for some reason].

Too much of a good thing can be bad too...so I have no idea if I have too much wash out here or not.
I still think I have too much aileron, since the plane flies great at low speed [launch] and while doing "pylon laps" if I leave the ailerons alone.

So you added washout, so inner part of wing stalls before the tips, for increased stability. That speedster of yours is one hot tamale for these quarter-A Coxes.

Good you painted it a contrasting color. I covered my Q-Tee in tan monokote, which made it near invisible with the dry knee high grass. This is why it took me longer to find too, when I crashed it. If it weren't for the piezio sound locator module plugged into a spare servo channel, I probably would have never found it.

GallopingGhostler wrote:So you added washout, so inner part of wing stalls before the tips, for increased stability. That speedster of yours is one hot tamale for these quarter-A Coxes.

Good you painted it a contrasting color. I covered my Q-Tee in tan monokote, which made it near invisible with the dry knee high grass. This is why it took me longer to find too, when I crashed it. If it weren't for the piezio sound locator module plugged into a spare servo channel, I probably would have never found it.

Actually the washout you see there is purely accidental.
I think it happened while painting the wing.

TD ABUSER wrote:Actually the washout you see there is purely accidental. I think it happened while painting the wing.

I look to the positive. As Microsoft used to say, "It's not a bug, it's a feature."