Tee Dee .09 rebuild.. and run!

Probably the fuel Roddie. Not the head.

I've run many a engine without gaskets. Lower compression head will start better than a high compression every time. That prop is a little large bud.

Shoot me a PM.

Roddie

the Medallion head in itself should not be a problem if it glows. My TD09 runs fine with low normal and high compression heads both. If it is a gasket problem, you will hear the air escaping from under the head when turning the crankshaft towards compression. If the piston/cylinder fit is worn, you will see extensive bubble formation at the exhaust port when turning the crank into compression.

I agree a large prop will not help start the engine up, but again, - sorry for giving unsolicited advice on this - you may want to check the fuel supply:

1. Check the small holes (3) on the venturi neck for plugging
2. Check the crank radial play...if excessive because abuse by the previous owner(s) on unbalanced props, the crank will not have the proper sealing.
3. Check the plastic carb body at the venturi connection area for cracks - a typical issue with TD-s of long previous history
4. Check again the nv threads..if loose, slip the silicone tube over them and the carb...

roddie wrote:Well... I had delusions of grandeur for my 5000th post.. but it was not to be. The old Tee Dee .09 wouldn't run. I got a few "pops" out of it this afternoon.. but that's it.

Roddie, take a look at your installation. You have installed the tank so it will gravity feed into the crankcase and flood your engine. Disconnect the tank until you get it to run off a prime.

All the rest should work...not necessarily optimum, but it should work. Make sure you drain ALL of the fuel from the crankcase before trying again. When it is all set up again try starting without using a prime. There may be enough residual fuel left to start it.

When you can successfully run off a few primes, then you can try the tank again. I would suggest reinstalling the tank lower so the top is below the needle valve.

If you still have some castor in the fuel jets you may find the engine getting richer as they get
flushed. It happened to me.

Good luck.

George

Thanks for the comments guys. I do have some 7 x 4's but they're wood (Zinger-brand.. and really lightweight). I'm a little puzzled.. because I've gotten 8 x 3's to run on reed-valve engines.

I think I may have flooded it a few times.. so I closed the needle and blew-through the exhaust-ports to clear the upper-cylinder of fuel. Maybe there was still too much down in the bottom?

This morning, I can hear some "air-hissing" when turning through compression.. but it's hard to tell where it's coming from.. and I can't see any bubbling. It's a strange hiss though, that stops abruptly mid-stroke. I thought maybe the seal in the plug might be bad.. but again; no evidence of bubbles.

The crankshaft is good and snug.. no side-play at all.

I may have caused an issue by mounting the engine a way's back on the beams so that the front-screws wouldn't be too close to the end, for fear of splitting the wood. In doing this; I now just noticed that the carb's pressure-nipple is bent-upward from contacting the beam.



When removing the engine, the right-front wood-screw's "head" sheared-off! I was able to remove the stub from the beam with locking-pliers.



Stupid of me to use soft-brass screws. I'm actually lucky that the engine didn't run.. or they all could have broken or loosened. They came-out a lot easier than they went in. Lesson learned.

I can't see any cracks in the carb.. but wonder if it's sealing with the case was compromised when the engine was torqued-down on the right-side against the pressure-nipple?

Can I use an ignition-wrench to remove the venturi? I have no experience with these engines. I'm assuming that's the only way to observe the 3-holes in the spray-bar flowing properly.

I didn't experience any lock-up due to flooding yesterday.. but after removing the engine this morning, there's an intermittent lock-up when flipping the prop.. I think there may be something amiss inside.

I may try to remove the cylinder with my strap-wrench. I tried previously.. but the webbed-strap has a waxy-coating that won't grip the cylinder. I will try wrapping a piece of rubber around the cylinder to see if that helps.

An old piece of leather belt and some Chanel locks will get the cylinder off.
I don't have much experience with tee dee .09s but I know mine likes to be damn near flooded to start.

Jim

gcb wrote:

roddie wrote:Well... I had delusions of grandeur for my 5000th post.. but it was not to be. The old Tee Dee .09 wouldn't run. I got a few "pops" out of it this afternoon.. but that's it.

Roddie, take a look at your installation. You have installed the tank so it will gravity feed into the crankcase and flood your engine. Disconnect the tank until you get it to run off a prime.

All the rest should work...not necessarily optimum, but it should work. Make sure you drain ALL of the fuel from the crankcase before trying again. When it is all set up again try starting without using a prime. There may be enough residual fuel left to start it.

When you can successfully run off a few primes, then you can try the tank again. I would suggest reinstalling the tank lower so the top is below the needle valve.

If you still have some castor in the fuel jets you may find the engine getting richer as they get
flushed. It happened to me.

Good luck.

George

Hi George, yes.. you're right. The tank was sitting on a piece of rubber-foam which I can slice-thinner to lower it's height. I mentioned an "air-hiss" that stops-abruptly mid-stroke.. but just realized that it only happens when turning the prop in reverse-rotation. I hope that doing this hasn't hurt anything. I'm so used to reedies that run in either direction. When trying to start; I was cranking in the proper-rotation..

I probably just need to get used-to running Tee Dee's.. I've heard that they require a bit more finesse.

Thanks for your input.

JPvelo wrote:An old piece of leather belt and some Chanel locks will get the cylinder off.
I don't have much experience with tee dee .09s but I know mine likes to be damn near flooded to start.

Jim

Hi Jim, I took your advice.. and got the cylinder off without much trouble. I gripped-it up "high" in hopes that the glowhead would loosen .. but the cylinder broke-free first. It was tight.. but didn't require a lot of pressure to loosen it. I'll have to wait until I get the proper wrenches to get the head off.

The engine looks pretty clean inside, considering how dirty it was on the outside.

roddie wrote:..........

This morning, I can hear some "air-hissing" when turning through compression.. but it's hard to tell where it's coming from.. and I can't see any bubbling. It's a strange hiss though, that stops abruptly mid-stroke. I thought maybe the seal in the plug might be bad.. but again; no evidence of bubbles.

..........

Roddie,
All TD09-s were built with tapered piston/cylinder fit. Even if the piston top shows little runtime of your engine, the first section of the compression stroke occurs with the piston and cylinder being slightly loose-fit, where some escape of air is unavoidable/normal. When the piston moves further up the fit becomes tighter - the tightest at the TDC pinch -  and no further escape of compressed air occurs. This may be the reason of hearing the hiss up until the piston reaches midway in the compression cycle

In actual running conditions with high rpm/piston velocity the escape of air is negligable and have no meaningful effect on compression as the time for air escape is really very short and the amount of air escaping is minimal.

It is possible that the pressure nipple was drilled through into the crankcase. In that case you might only get a "pop" when trying to start and might account for the hiss you are hearing. No real way to tell until you get the wrench.

Well Shoot i was hoping for something more exciting !!!  But thats OK i understand completely .. My only advice from looking at the pics is where me (((( Take engine apart and CLEAN Up good , Hobbies #9 will clean the gunk out of it (( Not the Plastic )) But that way you will know the engine a lot better yes remove the crankshaft too LOL , It's not that bad after you do a few You will get it running and bee proud of it !! My Brother !!

Eric knows of which he speaketh.
I picked up an .09 Medallion and an .09 TeeDee
as a lot. Took a little coin to do, but
worked out well. Don't forget the ear plugs.
These babies bark.
Bob

roddie wrote:
I may have caused an issue by mounting the engine a way's back on the beams so that the front-screws wouldn't be too close to the end, for fear of splitting the wood. In doing this; I now just noticed that the carb's pressure-nipple is bent-upward from contacting the beam.

Sorry, I warned you about that earlier, or at least tried to, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  

Check the hissing sound, it could just be the regular intake that your hear (from the intake port as it opens) but it could also be from the pressure nipple if it has been drilled trough, as others have mentioned.

Surfer_kris wrote:

roddie wrote:
I may have caused an issue by mounting the engine a way's back on the beams so that the front-screws wouldn't be too close to the end, for fear of splitting the wood. In doing this; I now just noticed that the carb's pressure-nipple is bent-upward from contacting the beam.

Sorry, I warned you about that earlier, or at least tried to, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  

Check the hissing sound, it could just be the regular intake that your hear (from the intake port as it opens) but it could also be from the pressure nipple if it has been drilled trough, as others have mentioned.

Hi Kris, I just looked back to the first thread-page.. and see that I totally missed your post. You and "Andras" had posted just minutes-apart.

I checked the pressure-nipple by probing inside it with a small pin. It has not been drilled-out. There's no sign of cracks anywhere on the carb.. at least none that I can see.

I trimmed the hardwood beams back with a razor-saw to clear the nipple and will re-drill their holes for 4-40 machine-screws and lock-nuts. I do have some thin aluminum-stock that I can use for plates.

Roddie,

on my fairly used 09 serving the Cosmic Wind I hear the same hissing sound just after the piston closes the exhaust port and moves up on the compression stroke, but the hissing stops soon afterwards....where the fit of the tapered piston and cylinder is already  tight enough to seal perfectly. I believe you may experience the same.

On my NIB TD09-s as well as tapered-bore NIB 049/051 TD-s this hissing is not yet experienced though, because the tapered fit at the cylinder bottom/piston top encounter is still relatively tight/untouched by engine runtime .  .

balogh wrote:Roddie,

on my fairly used 09 serving the Cosmic Wind I hear the same hissing sound just after the piston closes the exhaust port and moves up on the compression stroke, but the hissing stops soon afterwards....where the fit of the tapered piston and cylinder is already  tight enough to seal perfectly. I believe you may experience the same.

On my NIB TD09-s as well as tapered-bore NIB 049/051 TD-s this hissing is not yet experienced though, because the tapered fit at the cylinder bottom/piston top encounter is still relatively tight/untouched by engine runtime .  .

Hi again Andras, This Tee Dee .09 is probably fine. I just need to learn it's habits. I was a bit aggressive with my starting technique.. and as George pointed-out; my tank's feed-line was too high. I had a baseline for setting the needle but other than that.. I was in unfamiliar territory. I'd power-flushed the NVA with questionable fuel.. and there may have been a surplus of that fuel still in the case. The engine was drawing-fuel from the tank when I choked the venturi.. so I figured I was good to go.. when in fact; the engine was probably choked-down with fuel in the bottom-end. I even primed the venturi.. (more than once..) which was likely a big mistake.

I've taken steps to lower the tank.. and will proceed with a fully-closed needle and priming the "piston" when it's covering the exhaust-port.. so as not to flood the engine. That's criteria #1.. although Jim Roselle mentioned his engine needing to be flooded to start.. I'll be happy to get it to run past a "pop".. and we'll take it from there!

With the fuel line disconnected and you are only getting a pop on prime then something is wrong Roddie. I alluded to a potential issue a few posts back.

Every engine ever made should be able to run on a prime. Get it to run on prime first and then hook up fuel. A snort of fuel in the exhaust port and a couple drops in the intake should get it to run.

If you aren't building case pressure all you will get is a pop. Been there.

Cribbs74 wrote:With the fuel line disconnected and you are only getting a pop on prime then something is wrong Roddie. I alluded to a potential issue a few posts back.

Every engine ever made should be able to run on a prime. Get it to run on prime first and then hook up fuel. A snort of fuel in the exhaust port and a couple drops in the intake should get it to run.

If you aren't building case pressure all you will get is a pop. Been there.

Will send a PM Ron.. thanks!

I received a pair of needed wrenches from Ron C. today in the mail.. and a Tee Dee head and 7 x 3.5 Cox prop from Bob D. about a week ago! Thanks guys!

I need to apply a little heat to get the Medallion head off the cylinder.. and then we can give it another shot for a bench-run.

The suspense is killing me!  

I might just have to go out in the backyard and fire up my own...

Surfer_kris wrote:The suspense is killing me!  

I might just have to go out in the backyard and fire up my own...

Not sure why you drew a negative vote Kris. I gave you a "Greenie" to compensate.

Roddie, without reading back over the entire thread, I gather you suspect that it's losing compression, but I've had Ciox engines react like that when they had too much compression. Maybe stick another head gasket in and try it once you get it apart. Who knows, you might find it has no gasket.

Rod.

It was only meant as a joke, I thought that would be okey in this thread.

Oldenginerod wrote:

Surfer_kris wrote:The suspense is killing me!  

I might just have to go out in the backyard and fire up my own...

Not sure why you drew a negative vote Kris.  I gave you a "Greenie" to compensate.

Roddie, without reading back over the entire thread, I gather you suspect that it's losing compression, but I've had Ciox engines react like that when they had too much compression.  Maybe stick another head gasket in and try it once you get it apart.  Who knows, you might find it has no gasket.

Rod.

I've never given anyone a neg. point.. and I can't see how Kris's comment would have warranted one.

Rod, you might be correct about the possibility of a missing head gasket. The head that came installed on it is TIGHT. With cylinder removed from the engine; I locked the wrench (with forks for holding it..) in my bench-vise and tried to remove the head with the spanner on the other wrench. It wouldn't budge.. and I was afraid to go "gorilla" on it for fear of damaging the cylinder or the wrench.

As for the previous starting issues.. Ron mentioned the possibility of a failing element in that plug. I haven't actually observed the intensity of its "glow" with the cylinder removed from the engine.

There's one thing I forgot to mention. During my previous attempts to start the engine, I noticed the needle on my panel's ammeter was "fluttering". I've witnessed this before with other engines/plugs, but not as excessive as this one. Could this be an indicator of poor continuity and/or a failing coil?