Re: Venom!!!!!

John Goddard Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:06 am

Thanks for that Kris, it was starting to hurt..
If I can get a decent photo later I'll show
how I reached the conclusion. Bernie's right
The difference is very small but
I took the batt out of the calipers and
Used the jaws along the sides of the piston.
It is used piston that came from the little known
1970's Hershey,Wrigley, Kraft collaboration to make
Cox con rods. As a result they may have put more
Chocolate in the piston so in the name of 'science'
I'll strip a non HWK NIB 051 and see if it's the same.
A historical point to note Hershey later went on to
Make pistons for Subaru in their Imprezza...
lol!

John Goddard Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:15 am

Here's the HWK 051
Which may or may not have only been sold in Texas Wink

**Cribbs74** Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:27 am

John Goddard wrote:Here's the HWK 051
Which may or may not have only been sold in Texas

Hey, it looked fine when it was my hands......... I didn't run it for a reason. lol!

John Goddard Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:56 am

cribbs74 wrote:
John Goddard wrote:Here's the HWK 051
Which may or may not have only been sold in Texas

Hey, it looked fine when it was my hands......... I didn't run it for a reason.

Good Morning Ron lol!

Justa little leg pulling
Very Happy

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:57 am

Whoever keeps hitting me up for negative votes please stop Negative votes received : 40 was 32 earlier today That is seriously enough.

Cox International Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:20 pm

I have confirmed today with the co-designer of these engines that Cox almost certainly did not maufacture any Venom engines with a hex drive-plate as all 1,000 were made in one run, with like parts. This leaves two possibilities:

1) Clone
2) Original with drive-plate changed

Looking at the pictures and, if the piston is indeed thin-walled, I would tend to believe that this is a real Venom engine where the drive-plate has been replaced with the hex-shaped one.

I have seen a few Venom clones (including some excellent copies from China a few years ago) but none had the thin-walled piston. All the parts to clone a Venom are easily sourced, except the piston that is.

In parting I believe that the seller is not deliberatley mis-representing the listing; he/she likely is not aware of the OEM drive-plate configuration.

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:47 pm

Easier than taking candy from a baby! Faking a venom WON'T get you thrown in jail. I guess It could. If someone reports you for fraud. I think I'll buy the engine. Actually I will get my anonymous friend to bid and buy since she'll probably block me.

Cox International Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:50 pm

Yes, that is how we lighten our pistons as well but the Venom one is constructed thin-walled from inception and there are no traces of milling.

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:52 pm

I asked for a detailed picture Of just that and I got that picture where you can't see down the skirt "Figures."

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:54 pm

I can also mill seamlessly at an angle like so and sand blast after to remove machining marks. Venom!!!!! - Page 4 Sam_2311

and a copper metal sharpie for color BAM venom piston. Either way I'm gonna buy it verify sue her for fraud if its fake

Cox International Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:58 pm

I seriously doubt this is the case with the listed engine. Way too much work and, if someone was going to the length to do this, they may as well sell a new as opposed to a used one.

Also, the Venom cranks are really hard to get. I had to take one from a new OEM Venom to lend to our manufacturer because I was not able to buy one on eBay, forums or otherwise.

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:02 pm

Whoever keeps hitting me up for negative votes please stop Negative votes received : 40 was 32 earlier today That is seriously enough.

nitroairplane Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:49 pm

engine049 wrote:I can also mill seamlessly at an angle like so and sand blast after to remove machining marks.

and a copper metal sharpie for color BAM venom piston. Either way I'm gonna buy it verify sue her for fraud if its fake

So you are bidding?
BTW I am not so sure you could sure her for fraud even if it was fake if it was you would claim through paypal and they would return your money if you return the item I suppose.

Cox International Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:29 pm

engine049 wrote:Bernie People go to GREAT lengths to rip other people off. IF it is a fake, they probably thought it'd go $300+ bux.

Killer bee crank is a venom crank. I have sold over 15 KB's and over 20 venom cranks total.

Also At no point in time have I SPECIFICALLY accused anyone of fraud. All my statement were if-then and theoretical.

If I had known people were so easy to trick I might have made my own venoms. Fortunately for me I have a conscious and fear that my immortal soul would suffer great consequences.

I realize that, Tom. My point, however, is why go to the trouble of making parts for a used engine when it takes the same effort to do so for a new one and get way more $$'s.

Also, if someone were cloning and had the ability to mill a piston, milling a proper drive-plate would be no hurdle and they would not have installed a hex drive-plate, which raises all sorts of questions.

Furthermore, it's a dumb idea to do so on eBay as all a seller has to do is file a SNAD and he/she gets back their $$'s incl. shipping costs paid to the seller.

nitroairplane Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:39 pm

Cox International wrote:
engine049 wrote:Bernie People go to GREAT lengths to rip other people off. IF it is a fake, they probably thought it'd go $300+ bux.

Killer bee crank is a venom crank. I have sold over 15 KB's and over 20 venom cranks total.

Also At no point in time have I SPECIFICALLY accused anyone of fraud. All my statement were if-then and theoretical.

If I had known people were so easy to trick I might have made my own venoms. Fortunately for me I have a conscious and fear that my immortal soul would suffer great consequences.

I realize that, Tom. My point, however, is why go to the trouble of making parts for a used engine when it takes the same effort to do so for a new one and get way more $$'s.

Also, if someone were cloning and had the ability to mill a piston, milling a proper drive-plate would be no hurdle and they would not have installed a hex drive-plate, which raises all sorts of questions.

Furthermore, it's a dumb idea to do so on eBay as all a seller has to do is file a SNAD and he/she gets back their $$'s incl. shipping costs paid to the seller.

My theory, the Lady's husband bought it in this condition from a hobby shop as mentioned.
It arrived at the hobby shop with the wrong type of spring starter or a someone 'defective' drive plate and one fo the shop workers decided to do what they thought was right and replace this part with this one.
Problem solved and lets be friends Smile

**RknRusty** Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:50 pm

What's the difference between a Venom crank and a Killer Bee crank?

VenomGirl Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:56 pm

Gentlemen, while I can’t knowledgably comment on tapered pistons, machining tolerances, etc., I can say that I stand behind what I am selling. My husband was an avid combat flyer and had a bevy of super exotic engines. If you look at my eBay listings for the past month, you will see that I have listed and sold many engines much rarer than a $35 Venom. For example, I have sold 2 Shuriken .050’s, one Mark Smith modified FOX .36, two Glen Dye modified FOX .36, one Nelson .36, two Nelson .15’s, etc. All buyers of these engines have been pleased with what they have received and I haven’t had any negative feedback whatsoever for these engines. I believe most of the bid winners were surprised that these were even up for auction, let alone to get them for such a good price. With such an extensive collection to sell, WHY WHY WHY would I waste my time cloning a Venom Cox engine (even if we knew how)??? At the time, my husband would not have had the presence of mind to save the box and documentation for this toy … why would he, it was just another new COX engine to try. Also, he doesn’t recall ever changing the drive plate to a hex, esp. since the round plate would have looked so much nicer than the hex. He never used spring starters so again, no reason for him to have changed it. He kept all parts and to date, there’s no round drive plate to be found. Maybe a freak of nature … maybe the rarest Venom ever made – we don’t know!? BUT we are not misrepresenting the facts. It is what it is.

**Cribbs74** Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:06 pm

Well, that's good enough for me, I certainly believe you. I wish I could afford the thing lol!

I do wish you best of luck with the sale.

engine049 Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:47 pm

Whoever keeps hitting me up for negative votes please stop Negative votes received : 40 was 32 earlier today That is seriously enough.

How wonderful my 300'th post reduced to this.

nitroairplane Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:57 pm

engine049 wrote:Whoever keeps hitting me up for negative votes please stop Negative votes received : 40 was 32 earlier today That is seriously enough.

How wonderful my 300'th post reduced to this.

Yup, stop neg voting Tom!
Yes I still think a worker in the hobby shop must have chamged it For some reason.

John Goddard Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:07 am

Too much negativity all round here boys.
If you don't like what you see on eBay don't
Buy it.
Almost certain means not certain
Apart from the obvious (birthdays etc) I couldn't be certain of any detail from 1996.
Finally if you don't like someone or what they say on the
Forum don't neg them it's just not on. If you get so annoyed you
Want to neg another member it's probably time for a day off.
Two Cents

Finally Jacob if you read this you might want to prevent
New members from leaving feedback until they've
Been on a month or so.
Very Happy

And finally finally
This is supposed to be fun Lads
Let's keep it light
lol!

mr_cox Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:08 am

Cox International wrote:I have confirmed today with the co-designer of these engines that Cox almost certainly did not maufacture any Venom engines with a hex drive-plate as all 1,000 were made in one run, with like parts. This leaves two possibilities:

1) Clone
2) Original with drive-plate changed

Looking at the pictures and, if the piston is indeed thin-walled, I would tend to believe that this is a real Venom engine where the drive-plate has been replaced with the hex-shaped one.

I have seen a few Venom clones (including some excellent copies from China a few years ago) but none had the thin-walled piston. All the parts to clone a Venom are easily sourced, except the piston that is.

In parting I believe that the seller is not deliberatley mis-representing the listing; he/she likely is not aware of the OEM drive-plate configuration.

Bernie,

About 1,5 year ago there was a research on the 049 collectors group hold by Martin Hepperle. He asked everybody with a genuine Venom to look which cylinders there are fitted on the engines. It appears that there are used many kind of diffrent cylinders. Some have no number, some a #1 and some (like mine) a #4 (however thet have the same porting inside). And they are produced more than one year. The latest run (May/jun/july? 1995) are not all with the thin walled piston, maybe because they wanted to prevent the engines for piston damage.

However, using a hex shaped driveplate is never seen before and I think its not a part which will run out fast.

I disassembled my venom once and could post the pictures here if there is any interest.

Cox International Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:55 am

IMHO way too much (negative) discussion about an engine up for auction.

Whoever wants to bid on the thing, should. The ones that don't believe the seller, shouldn't.

As previously stated I do believe the seller to be truthful even if the drive-plate was changed at some point.

microflitedude Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:05 am

Just a reminder... Rep votes in FS/W count for 15 points rather than 1.

No comment on the Venom. Cool

WingingIt74 Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:09 am

Sponsored content