Dual Rates and stuff.

Sorry, I had forgotten another 'old school' saying:

The only substitute for Cubic inches are rectangular dollars!

...that, and if you add the two together, you win!

SuperDave wrote:"Why is it that current Ford Mustangs produce better gas mileage, lower emissions, more horsepower, with lighter weight from fewer cubic inches than ever before?

Because they are made in china.

PV Pilot wrote:

SuperDave wrote:"Why is it that current Ford Mustangs produce better gas mileage, lower emissions, more horsepower, with lighter weight from fewer cubic inches than ever before?

Because they are made in china.

Ah, Keith, ever the comedian! Can't you come up it better answer that that?

Point in fact, US made Ford Mustangs, F-150 pickups and the Focus are top-sellers over their competitors and are reasons Ford didn't accept "bail-out money from the federal governent.

SuperDave wrote:

PV Pilot wrote:

SuperDave wrote:"Why is it that current Ford Mustangs produce better gas mileage, lower emissions, more horsepower, with lighter weight from fewer cubic inches than ever before?

Because they are made in china.

Ah, Keith, ever the comedian! Can't you come up it better answer that that?

Point in fact, US made Ford Mustangs, F-150 pickups and the Focus are top-sellers over their competitors and are reasons Ford didn't accept "bail-out money from the federal governent.

Hencho in Mehico??,, as most of the replacement parts are marked.

Keith:

The Mustang is nonetheless built in the US and composed of some parts from Mexico even as orginal equipment. American-built means the labor income remain in the US as do the taxes placed upon workers' incomes and where the regard for the environment is held in much higher esteem.

But you still haven't answered the question about why better performance has been acheived from smaller engines than ever before in automotive history.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

SuperDave wrote:But you still haven't answered the question about why better performance has been acheived from smaller engines than ever before in automotive history.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Because Ford took on ex Chevrolet engineers in 08 during the beggining of the big layoff's, and fuel injection is a far cry from what it was Back in the day. You can put the newer fuel injection on just about any small worn out junkyard motor and it will make power better than ever before,,seen it done.

The mid 80's V8 mustang's were crap, they had horrible oil control problems, Ford was constantly warranteeing whole motors. I would never own a Ford, now or then,,Sorry. I have had them apart down to the last nut and bolt and it is a wonder that they can do what they do with the ever so screwed up engineering and assembly techniques. The new design mustangs that were released in 07-08 I think also had engine oil control problems right off the bat.

My daily driver is a 99 toyota Tacoma 4x4,,why?, because the resale value is leaps and bounds above anything on the market, period. Assembled at the Tennesee plant with parts made all over the globe (as with any auto manuf, including Mercedes Benz). I was able to go 175,000 miles with it (yes 175,000) before it needed new front brake pads, along with the top caliber quality control, I also attribute alot of that to the way I drive.

My Fun car is a 2 door 56 chevy 210.

Don't get me wrong, GM/Chevrolet has it's problems also. I wouldn't own a new one unless I pulled the Big Bertha Handle down in Vegas and it hit. You know what I would do?, I would turn around and sell it.

Keith:

As to EFI, Ford producted multi-port injection while GM held on to TBI for many year until the Dura-Tech was introduced. American cars of the mid-eighties suffered due to the EPA mandated CAFE standards when American manufacturers adapted emissions equipment to fit existing production engines. That along with the fuel-shortages, drove the consumer into the market for Japanese vehicles. Japanese manufacturerwer had been facing fuel shortages for many years and their technological advancement accelerated the world demand for Japanese vehicles. American manufacturers where caught "napping" when they should have been paying attention. "Ya snooze, ya' loose" was never truer.

It is a common fallacy that: "There's no replacement for displacement". Modern engines are not only smaller in displacement, more powerful, more fuel-efficient, of lighter weight and longer-lasting than ever before.

I have pro-built both GM and Ford small blocks doing all but the machine work in my shop at home and in all honesty I prefer the SBC as a rugged and versitle performer. In big-block I prefer the Ford having owned four F-250 4X4's with 460's.

The only real "dog" Ford engine that I have experienced is the 3.8L V-6. I have not experienced the Ford oil control problems that you have mentioned nor have they been reported to me when I "turned wreches" as a sideline.

In summary, we all develop our preferences through our experiences. What a dull world it would be if we all had the same preferences.

SuperDave wrote:Keith:

The Mustang is nonetheless built in the US and composed of some parts from Mexico even as orginal equipment. American-built means the labor income remain in the US as do the taxes placed upon workers' incomes and where the regard for the environment is held in much higher esteem.

But you still haven't answered the question about why better performance has been acheived from smaller engines than ever before in automotive history.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

...............ummmmm...aaaahhheemm, yes I did actually, read my post on page 4 again, tisk tisk tisk, I`m not even being a wise guy

And lets realy be honest guys, I dont care what emblem is on the hood/grill/tailgate etc, American cars have not been REAL AMERICAN CARS or trucks for that matter in my lifetime, epa saw to that! I want so bad to win the lottery just so I can buy a pristine AMERICAN real automobile!!
Yeah yeah, viper this and corvette that, mustang blah blah blah this is what they all are now a days. I have lived long enough to see the days of American automobiles do just like a
And my old `89 stock ramcharger still smokes off my `99 "v8 magnum" ram, esp dollar 4 dollar

This is happening in the UK as well.
THe most british car there is the MINI is now made by BMW in germany.

Jaspur:

I believe the subject was stock production performance cars rather than NOS "dual-rates".

"Tire-smoking ability" it not a meaningful measure of car performance anymore that vids showing cars doing four-wheel drifts. The only car I've ever driven that would do a four-wheel drift is a Sunbeam Tiger V-8 but it would also "swap ends" when doing one. I drove this car in auto-cross competitions successfully against BB Corvette's.

The absolutely fastest (non production obviously) street car I have ever rode in was a 1972 Datsun 240Z with a junkyard bone stock 2 barrel carb chevy 283 with a Muncie close ratio 4 speed. The power to weight was waay off the chart. It ate the OEM independent rear diffs like they were going out of style,,lol. I think me and my buddy ravaged all the available diffs from here to Cali and then some. We road raced it and drag raced it.

No Nitrous or supercharger needed,,why would you??.


Corvette's, Mustang's, Camaro's??,,forget about it,, they lost and failed horribly.

It looked similar to this: (biggie link, small pic)
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.motortopia.com/files/11411/vehicle/482b94a794765/240_z_002.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motortopia.com/cars/1972-datsun-240z-12025&h=480&w=640&sz=127&tbnid=io10mKdUjnLWMM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1972%2Bdatsun%2B240z%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=1972+datsun+240z&docid=Nsz_dSb_-gYUQM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=crcJT4bTH-iSiAKH6p3DCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQ9QEwAg

Hi,
But honestly how many guys do you know who what performance and leave their cars 100% stock?

nitroairplane wrote:Hi,
But honestly how many guys do you know who what performance and leave their cars 100% stock?

Not very many, a select club at that. Even with all the new OEM tech available,,there is always room for customizing. Wheels and tires are usually first, followed by exhaust, then come the super tuning chips and boxes, ect, ect, ect.

And those that do are usually Ferrari owners who use their cars as a status symbol.

Lemme toss in this:

There is stock-bodied EP '72 Datsun 510 in Oregon that turns the quarter in eleven seconds.

Oregon Field Guide — Electric Drag Racing · Oregon Public Broadcasting


The future of drag racing is "green" and not fuel.

Guess why?

.

SuperDave wrote:Lemme toss in this:

There is stock-bodied EP '72 Datsun 510 in Oregon that turns the quarter in eleven seconds.

Oregon Field Guide — Electric Drag Racing · Oregon Public Broadcasting


The future of drag racing is "green" and not fuel.

Guess why?

Well that would be because if we keep going like this there is only 30 years of gas powere left.
Food for thought

SuperDave wrote:Jaspur:

I believe the subject was stock production performance cars rather than NOS "dual-rates".

"Tire-smoking ability" it not a meaningful measure of car performance anymore that vids showing cars doing four-wheel drifts. The only car I've ever driven that would do a four-wheel drift is a Sunbeam Tiger V-8 but it would also "swap ends" when doing one. I drove this car in auto-cross competitions successfully against BB Corvette's.

Smoking the tires is what happens when you stomp the gas,in an effort to heat up the tires so it will "stick and git"

4 wheel drift: lmao 2 front wheels are meant to steer,2 are to git and keep her going;4wd is for when you get your truck stuck

I have swapped ends a few times,rather un-poeticto see the guys you are beting in a face to face,stings a bit too but thats why we wear helmets

Drag racing: you mean there are still guys trying to race but that only know the steering wheel as a handle for hanging on to?

Great!. Had a dream that my brothers $55,000 BBC nitrous motor exploded on the dyno,,singing happily at 8400 rpms one second, the next it was just a big grey expanding aluminum cloud,,itty bitty particles,,all gone in a instant. Horrible.


I blame it all on Super Dave,,thanks Dave.


Seen the Datsun wizz bang car run many times, very interesting and eerie. Pretty cool stuff thought. He spent a bunch of time and money getting it all right.

Green drag racing??, not right at this moment and not 100% green for some time to come. Biofuels put you in the green-grey area for quite awhile. It takes a polluting factory to put out the parts for green cars, biofuels, ect. I love it when the tree huggers and veegens say " look at my green car, I am reponsible, I save the environment". They forget quickly about the factorys that have to churn out that car. The waste and pollution needed to create such a animal.

you know, Abe Lincoln is said to have had a dream of his assasination
the night before he went to the theater...better watch out, PV!

Metaphorically I see some of opinions expressed here as like continuing to walk into a railroad tunnel in the light of an oncoming speeding locomotive.

Good luck!

GermanBeez wrote: you know, Abe Lincoln is said to have had a dream of his assasination
the night before he went to the theater...better watch out, PV!

"Funny thing...in my dreams...it's always someone else getting shot ! "

I am remined that the great constant in human history is change. Civilizations rise and fall based on their ability to adapt to change.

Deep thought for early in the AM.