Skyray 35 Build - Faux Streak look

Yes it's baltic birch plywood.

Ouch!

Rusty I like that set up for some extra strength you can never have enough the way I fly   , Those pins are the kind I like for the holes are a lot smaller but not as easy to get out as the T pins  _that is if you glue them too@. good thing about T,s are u can give them a twist with pliers  and they come out pretty easy , but my god what a hole they leave , doing it with them there pins usually i'll end up bending, popping the head off  o r something stupid so you need a good supply ..Coming along nicely! Getback

RknRusty wrote:Ouch!

That grain sure is different Rusty. I am super happy that Matt is taking up the hobby!

Better watch out for that Oriental, we don't need a mini Pearl Harbor incident!

Ron

Cribbs74 wrote:That grain sure is different Rusty. I am super happy that Matt is taking up the hobby!

Better watch out for that Oriental, we don't need a mini Pearl Harbor incident!

Ron

It sure is different. That's what was in the kit. I didn't want to put all one kind on one side and visa versa, so I mixed and matched. It's going to be a good wing.

Matt, Wayne and I are meeting up at Fort Jax tomorrow. I've got a bigger tank for Matt, still only 3 oz but better than his 2 oz. Wayne has a Tom Morris handle for him and I have lines. I'll bring some snot fuel and some sig 10/22 too. His Fox ran good on Sig 10/20 at Joe Nall. We'll get him outfitted yet. He seems excited, I think that's great. I am too.

I will try to get me doing a full pattern on camera. No harsh judging please.  Looks like probably 12-15 mph tomorrow. That's getting to be average for the fort. It sure helps me fly better in contests where the wind is usually calmer.
I'm hijacking my own thread.
Rusty

Those pins are better after the head pops off. Bend about 3/8 inch into an L and keep on using them. If you glue them into the wood, bend the L in, use pliers and TWIST the pin in place. After about 1/4 turn the pin usually comes out easy.

Looking good!

Phil

The wing is looking great Rusty.

Really nice!!

Theo

Got the excess ends trimmed, the TE trued up and ready to mate with flaps, and the bottom sheeting on. And I made a major rush save to keep myself from being seriously dumb.

I was about to sheet the last open bay and something that's been staring me in the face daring me to ignore it conked me on the head. Ant it conked me when the pre-glue was almost fully ready. I've done it before and almost did it again... built a bellcrank that has more throw in one direction than the other. I hate that, because external stops are dangerous and when you bottom one out in an emergency maneuver the whole weight of the plane is hanging on one line while the other goes slack.

The bend in the pushrod under the crank's baseplate stops the rod when you pull full down. But full up lets the crank swing through the cutout in the rib behind it, giving unlimited throw. So the pre-glue is drying and I'm in serious Oh Crap mode. I started looking at a plywood plate to block it, but it wasn't in the right spot, so better but still same problem. This is a rib I shaped from the Lite Ply templates and I saved all the knockouts for glue stirrers, Easy fix... glue drying, hurry, I cut one in half and pressed it into the cutout, put a long spout on the CA and glued that mother in there. Fixed! Wham bam glue the center sheeting on, all sealed up. Whew, and I'm not an idiot yet.

I cut the control rod short since I got tired of snagging it and I'm going to use CF tube anyway. Here's a picture that looks indistinguishable from the top sheeting pic, but since I'm such a photo slut, here it is anyway:


The only other thing I am going to do before adding the tips and flaps is add some shear webs to the facing of the TE sheets. This will help keep the wing straight and give it strength to reduce any flex in a hi gee snap maneuver like me pulling out of the ground's path on that last bottom of my V8 I showed y'all Sunday. And I'm pretty sure I still have some reserve in my weight savings that I haven't spent.

I did the trick Ken taught me with a pair of CF rods to check for twist and so far it's perfect. The Sig method of prop tabs on the bottom of the ribs on a flat surface really works well. No jig needed. So next time I have something to show, it will look like a Flite Streak skeleton. I may or may not cover it before installing it in the fuse. But right now I'm sure it would pass a 30# pull test. I inherited my neighbor Chris's aluminum monokote so I'm trying to how to integrate that. Silver flames or feathers maybe. Time for a break.

Me Mum is coming to spend the night tomorrow, so no more work until Friday probably. I wonder how this plane would fly if I just threw it together with CA instead of being so intensely exacting. Sometimes I think not much difference, I don't suppose I'll ever know.
Good night
The overly meticulous Rusty

Rusty,
Can you post a link to Kens cf tube twist check tip?

Jim

JPvelo wrote:Rusty,
Can you post a link to Kens cf tube twist check tip?

Jim

Jim he never showed me an illustration, but I can describe it to you, then I'l go looking for where he wrote it. This is best done when it's still a skeleton. Lay the wing on a flat surface like the edge of a table. Take CF rods or some other pair of straight edges, arrows, brass tubes, etc. Lay one across each end of the wing right up next to the end rib. Nothing is supporting the rods except the LE and TE. Now get down and eyeball it from one end to see if the rods are parallel. The far rod should disappear behind the front rod. if it looks like a cross, it tells you which way the wing needs to be bent to correct it. I've done it with yard sticks sitting on their edges and the steel rods from a wing jig.

This part is what I've learned from many threads at SSW and SH and in my experience they work well.
There are various methods of correcting twist. I would start with dry heat from a hair dryer and counter-bow, remove the heat after a few minutes and hold the counter-bow until cool. This is especially effective if you have an epoxied butt joint in the center of the LE and TE.

If you need more coaxing, a jet of steam from a tea kettle will provide quicker heat penetration and loosen the wood fibers making it more plastic and moldable.

You can get even more aggressive with ammonia, which detaches the lignin fibers in the wood and allows it to be reconfigured. It will link back up and still be strong after evaporation. Windex may have enough, or you can go with the strong stuff if needed. If you have a wavy edge ammonia can fix it very well if you work one area at a time.

The hair dryer worked great on my Yak wing, but I don't kow if I reshaped the wood or the epoxy joints. I laid the dryer on the counter set on high and held the wing in front of it while counter twisting it. It was a permanent fix.

Hope this helps,
Rusty

This can also be done using a heat gun after covering. I also do this with dope finishes using a paint stripping heat gun. Don't get too comfy using high heat. It can burn through which I've done. Twisting wings is done much easier with the help of another. When twisting, I use the wrinkles in the open bays as a guideline too how much I'm actually twisting. Typically these wrinkles will be span wise at a diagonal and they can usually be chased into a corner without too much sagging when relaxed. Ken

I should rename this, "the longest wing build ever." But it's all done except for the Flite Streak tips.
As if I couldn't think up something else to worry about. The pull test kept nagging me after some guy at SH posted his broke at 20 pounds, and that was with the Lite Ply ribs. I have no idea if his sheeting or anything else was properly glued, but I figured I'd add some extra strength. Gussets to carry any excessive forces into the spars.


Then before I do anything else, the twist check.


Last but not least, shear webs on the face of the TE sheets. I rechecked as I went, checking and gluing.

I need to store this wing in a safe place while I build the fuse and associated parts. And then go on vacation. I suppose if I hook it and hang it by the leadouts it will stay straight for a couple of weeks in the old drafty shop. I feel like my shear webs will contribute to keeping it from twisting. I'm afraid to bring it into the low humidity of the house, as it may twist from drying. Any thoughts? How about bagging it in a black trash bag.

This week I need to reshape the bowed and twisted fuse. It bowes to the inboard side and the nose is twisted. Looks like heat, steam and ammonia to the rescue. Or laminate a couple of 1/4" slabs. That'a what I did with the Yak. I'd rather fix the original.
When it's straight I'm going to silkspan it with Minwax polyurethane and hope for s woody look.


Rusty

Hang it, or lay it flat on a table. It will be fine. If it isn't fine when you get back you know how to fix this, and it would probably have happened anyways. If you are afraid of the roof leaking on it bag it too.

Phil

Okay, now I'm transitioning from the wing build to the fuselage. As mentioned earlier it's slightly warped in the bad direction, but the wood looks good so I'm going to stay with it. I'm sure I can get it bent straight or at least in the good direction.

I spent the morning staring at my Baby Streaks and copying the stab/elevator. I already had cut a new enlarged one copied from my Ray Copeland Ray, so I traced it on graph paper and laid a freehand paper cutout of the baby stab in the middle of the tracing. Then freehanded a large version of the Streak stab, keeping the hinge line in the same place and the root chord the same. Due to the curved shape, I'll lose a bit of stab area but not really any elevator area. I did the same with the wingtip too, but I need not bother to cut it out until the wing is installed and the flaps are added so I can get the correct sweep angle on the tip's TE.

One question arose that I'll pose here. I'll probably ask the Stunthangar guys too.
Now that the chord of the stab is longer, something will vary from the plans, either the placement of the stab LE as mounted to the fuse and measured from the wing TE, or the hinge distance from the wing TE, otherwise known as the tail moment. I'm guessing the hinge-to-wing distance should remain the same and the stab LE will just be slightly further forward. I'll weigh any opinions on that from you guys.

So whaddya think... Is it Streak Yet!

Streakerized? You plan on flying that thing naked Rusty?
As far as the tail moment, I would increase it. My understanding is that it will turn quicker due to the increased leverage but track smoother around the circle.

Jim

Did you find the plans for the 'Streak on outerzone?
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2652

I've probably posted that link a few times...

A number of people on Stunthanger recommended adding about 2 inches to the tail and 1 inch to the nose...or something like that. I can't find the exact reference.

Apparently the new adobe reader will print tiled, at proper scale, from these plans.

Phil

I should clear up any misunderstandings. My Skyray only going to look like a Streak to the casual observer. Functionally it is all Skyray with Brett Buck's modifications.

If you build a Streak and want to change it to a precision stunter, rather than the super fun sport plane it's meant to be, then you can change moments to smooth it out and slow it down. But I feel like that is pointless. If you want a precision aerobatic plane then the Skyray is almost the same plane, just uglier, but with the proper tail and nose moments for CLPA. I guess you could do it either way, but making a stunter look like a Streak is easier than turning a Streak into a stunter.
Does that make sense?
Rusty

Sounds like I need to order up a skyray!

I'm stalled on my build, I have 2 complete flite streak airframes hanging in the basement waiting paint.  But for kids they would be done...

I think they might get rattle can goodness soon.

Phil

Phil, those Streaks are fine machines. If you had the precision hand action of say, Lt. Commander Data, you could be a CLPA world beater with a Streak. But if you're a regular guy like me and like slamming outside loops from normal flight from 10' off the ground and screaming with joy every time you do it, the Streak is for you!
Rusty

RknRusty wrote:Phil, those Streaks are fine machines. If you had the precision hand action of say, Lt. Commander Data, you could be a CLPA world beater with a Streak. But if you're a regular guy like me and like slamming outside loops from normal flight from 10' off the ground and screaming with joy every time you do it, the Streak is for you!
Rusty

That's where I am getting to.
Phil

Hey Rusty
I maight have missed something, the pictures of the wing above is of a Skyray35? Did you replace the half ribs with full fibs? What was Brett's mods?

duke.johnson wrote:Hey Rusty
I maight have missed something, the pictures of the wing above is of a Skyray35? Did you replace the half ribs with full fibs?  What was Brett's mods?

Yes, all full ribs of contest balsa, except hard balsa for the three center ribs and a kit supplied lite ply rib at each tip.

The full balsa ribs at every station and larger elevator are Brett's mods with my addition of fixed flaps and Flite Streak cosmetics.

Here's Bretts writeup:
http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=198043&mesg_id=198043
Pretty sure I've seen variations of it.
Rusty