Re: CEF speed contest Design Discussions

ian1954 Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:04 pm

Tis an extremely nice build - I have always viewed profile planes with some scepticism but this entire thread is a bit of an eye opener.

**Cribbs74** Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:09 pm

Dang Jim,

We need to have a prettiest build contest added to this.

dckrsn Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:59 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Dang Jim,

We need to have a prettiest build contest added to this.

.....just give it to Jim. Thumbs Up

Beautiful!

Bob

JPvelo Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:07 pm

Thanks guys! I have a feeling there will be a lot if good looking models. I will see if Admin. can set up an "engine of the month" type vote when all the entries are in.

**RknRusty** Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:13 pm

JPvelo wrote:Thanks guys! I have a feeling there will be a lot if good looking models. I will see if Admin. can set up an "engine of the month" type vote when all the entries are in.

Yes, definitely a beauty contest! Better do it before they fly.

pkrankow Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:13 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Dang Jim,

We need to have a prettiest build contest added to this.

That was discussed briefly. My suggestion was as follows:

For measurement purposes top and bottom with ruler.
Then "show" side, above front quarter, opposite above rear quarter.

This shows all views. Then someone needs to quilt them for voting.

But that is my idea...

Resolution has not been discussed either, as the quilting and cropping, and such will take up resolution, then scaling so they all look the same in the browser.

But this is not set in anything.

Phil

roddie Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:59 pm

JPvelo wrote:Still waiting for decals but paint is pretty much done:

Jim

SWEEEET Jim!! Looks beautiful!!

Roddie

Mark Boesen Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:07 pm

Nice work, the cowl/plane looks great, you set the bar kinda high!

statorvane Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:52 am

Still waiting for decals but paint is pretty much done:

I've been following this thread for some time, and...Wow! I must say that is really sharp. Very nice.

GUS THE I.A. Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:57 am

I have a favorite military jet, that would lend itself well to this event. In the rules, I see nothing that precludes a propeller version of a jet from being able to compete. Maybe I'll whip it together, and then let you decide. It would still be a fun little project to fly.

Please let me know what your ruling is about that.

I appreciate the time and effort you're taking to administer this contest, and am looking forward to seeing all the entries. So far, there are no duplicate models. Figures though, that I would have a civilian airplane...

**RknRusty** Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:35 am

GUS THE I.A. wrote:...Please let me know what your ruling is about that...

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t5898-cef-profile-scale-reed-speed-rules#73937

JPvelo Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:27 am

GUS THE I.A. wrote:I have a favorite military jet, that would lend itself well to this event. In the rules, I see nothing that precludes a propeller version of a jet from being able to compete. Maybe I'll whip it together, and then let you decide. It would still be a fun little project to fly.

Please let me know what your ruling is

Go for it. As long as it follows the size / square inch rules it shouldn't have any competitive edge over a traditional plane so I don't see a problem. I've been wanting to build a Sarpolis mig for quite some time.

Jim

Mark Boesen Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:37 am

So a delta or sweep back wing would still need to be 15" min. wingspan? I think a F-86 would look pretty cool!

The rules state 42' handle to center of plane, what is the minimum diameter of line?

P.S.
For those following this thread and are thinking about getting in on the fun, most 1/2 profile kits (Sterling, Brodak, etc.) would fit right into the parameters of the rules.

hmm....
CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 15140410

CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 15140410

JPvelo Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:07 am

Mark Boesen wrote:So a delta or sweep back wing would still need to be 15" min. wingspan? I think a F-86 would look pretty cool!

The rules state 42' handle to center of plane, what is the minimum diameter of line?

P.S.
For those following this thread and are thinking about getting in on the fun, most 1/2 profile kits (Sterling, Brodak, etc.) would fit right into the parameters of the rules.

The 15 inch span ensures everyone has the same frontal area. No line size specified, so let's say whatever you feel is "safe and prudent" lol!

Without looking through the AMA rules book I THINK 20lb spectra is the allowable minimum. If you haven't tried spectra it's great. Low drag and relatively inexpensive.

Jim

ebeneezer Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:16 pm

Hi guys just a quick question regarding the rules. Does the total wing area include the tail plane area as well.

Cheers Mike Santa

JPvelo Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:40 pm

ebeneezer wrote:Hi guys just a quick question regarding the rules. Does the total wing area include the tail plane area as well.

Cheers Mike

Wing area refers to the wing only, no tail plane.

Jim

ebeneezer Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:20 pm

Thanks Jim, I'll have to up the span another inch. It did look rather tiny at 15 inch span.

Cheers Mike Flying

JPvelo Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:49 pm

Made good progress on Miss Ashley ll today

Carbon fiber spar so landing stress doesn't snap the wing:
CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 VAcKybw

CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 VAcKybw

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Jim

ebeneezer Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:54 am

Thats one great looking model Jim It looks great. A couple more questions. Does the Profile fuselage have to be solid? and having never attepted my own design. Where does the bellcrank pivot have to be. Unfortunately the Bugatti has a swept forward wing. Finaly I asume the wing and tail incedences are set set at zero zero? Oh and one more thing, what about all-up weight, is weight your enemy?

Cheers Mike Santa

JPvelo Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:31 am

ebeneezer wrote:Thats one great looking model Jim It looks great. A couple more questions. Does the Profile fuselage have to be solid? and having never attepted my own design. Where does the bellcrank pivot have to be. Unfortunately the Bugatti has a swept forward wing. Finaly I asume the wing and tail incedences are set set at zero zero? Oh and one more thing, what about all-up weight, is weight your enemy?

Cheers Mike

Thank you mike.
The rules say flat "plank" or "slab" fuselage. That implies solid but if you want to punch some holes in your plank and cover it with doublers that's fine. I would think the pivot should be as close to the cg as possible but I welcome comments from anyone more knowledgeable in design than myself. Yes, zero zero for the incidence. I would think light as possible is a good idea.

Jim

GUS THE I.A. Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:37 am

Okay you guys... its time for you to concede! This is the plane that will dominate the contest! Give up before you're embarrassed! Your efforts will be in vain!

The Bonanza was a cool idea, and will, of course, be a top contender for the win, but now, this model is slated to be the Grand Champion! I present... The A7 Corsair II !

The weather took a turn for the worse here, so I was stuck inside, and made use of the time by whipping this little beauty up! Wingspan is 16-3/4 inches; I figured the wing area to be 47-1/2 sq/in. Length from the driveplate face to tail is 12-1/2 inches. Oh, and in researching this little beauty- I found one that has purple trim! Can't lose! Now comes the detail stuff: the landing gear, bellcrank and pushrod, engine and tank mounting...and of course-paint! Silver base, (natural aluminum) and PURPLE TRIM! CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 100_1415

CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 100_1415

CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 100_1416

Actually, I'm just having fun with you guys. I don't know if these things will even fly worth a hoot! So, all this blathering is just smack-talk, in jest! No hard feelings, huh? Let's race!

duke.johnson Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:05 am

Looks good, I should have known you'd go with purple trim. But of course, I'll have an orange and white plan.

JPvelo Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:37 am

GUS THE I.A. wrote:. I don't know if these things will even fly worth a hoot! So, all this blathering is just smack-talk, in jest! No hard feelings, huh? Let's race!

I have no doubt that these little planes will fly great! It's getting them back on the ground and bringing them to a stop in one piece that has me concerned lol!

Jim

roddie Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:54 pm

JPvelo wrote:Made good progress on Miss Ashley ll today

Carbon fiber spar so landing stress doesn't snap the wing:

Jim

Miss Ashley II is looking great Jim! I'm a little concerned with landing stresses too... even though my gear blocks are mounted to a central hardwood spar... I mentioned to my Dad, that I was using 1/16" music-wire struts. Although they are "raked forward" a few degrees... he thinks they'll be too rigid. I may make-up a pair of .047" wire struts, with a single coil-wind to take some shock from landing. My wheels/tires are rigid, small and lightweight.. and I may be better off with different ones that will also take some shock better.

(photo below) "Walnut" wing central-spar, for mounting the "Cherry-wood" gear-blocks; secured ea. side w/#2 wood screws.. down from the top. The Cherry gear-blocks also serve as a flutter-free upper-mount for the polycarbonate gear doors. The gear's fwd. "rake" is scale.. and I don't want any modifications to affect that.

Roddie

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CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 15 11-28-13

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Mark Boesen Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:28 pm

....and of course I didn't work on my plane at all, but I did clear off a work bench, so its on! Too much snow on the ground for disc golf, so I think I'm gonna get some building done.

I like the A-7 and think there might be some advantage to that design, but ultimately its going to be power plant and to a lesser degree airframe. Some really nice planes being built, this is gonna get interesting~

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