Chain saws - Cox made them - and the "Silver Bullet"

Got it!

Earlier this afternoon I heated it to smoking, and I do mean smoking.  Gave it a shot of penetrating on top of the piston and hit the hardwood dowel a couple of times with moderate to heavy blows.  Nothing. I do not want to crack this case!

Had dinner and tried it again.  Still warm.  Different approach.  Keep tapping it with moderate hits.  On about the 20th hit I felt it give.  A couple more and I dropped the pistion something better than an 1/8" enough to see a ring but no rust.  A couple more light hits dropped the piston connecting rod to almost the bottom of the case.  

Some more penetrating oil and 0000 steel removed most of the ring.  Wedged it back up to the ring plus some and dropped it again. More steel wool.  I'm going to repeat this probably many times before I get the piston out.  But there is hope. I do have a brake/clutch master cylinder hone that will fit right in there.  Should clean it up nicely.

I'm a little surprised that this unique and very well built Cox engine didn't generate more discussion and on the Cox Engine Forum too.  

But it is what it is and I will wrap it up in pictures.  



Four sets of captured roller bearings.  










Compression and wiper rings

Bob, I love the high quality aluminum case casting and the aluminum piston, it cleaned up very well.

rsv1cox wrote:I'm a little surprised that this unique and very well built Cox engine didn't generate more discussion and on the Cox Engine Forum too.

Bob, you are doing a good rehabilitation on this engine, returning it to a good runner. Actually considering that it is not powering a hobby vehicle or plane, as a practical appliance this thread has received 528 views and 28 replies. So all considering, the thread has people's attention.

I just think that because only a few of the CEF membership owns these is probably why you won't receive as many replies as with the planes.

Yes, it is a bit of Leroy Cox's company's history, prior to sale to Leisure Dynamics. It is just too bad that the gamble he took on the slot car business, a fad overnight that quickly faded, (victim of the boob toob), left him with considerable unsold inventory that he lost his shirt on. The A.C. Gilbert Company also suffered tremendously. Following is said of it:

Jitter Buzz: The End of the Gilbert Company

Jitter Buzz wrote:While at Gilbert, Effinger collaborated with Henry Struck joined to develop the first ready-to-fly gas powered Flex-Wing airplane model. The patent rights for the Wanner Wing (also known as the NASA Rogallo Wing) were purchased by Gilbert and 200,000 Wing-Thing kits were produced using this concept. All modern parachutes and hang gliders stem from these patents. Bill Effinger shared a lot of joy and drive with A. C. Gilbert and created very high quality airplanes that are still desirable today. Unfortunately, the rest of the Gilbert company was rapidly being devoured by corporate shenannigans. The Model Airplanes were the last high quality innovative product to emerge from the Gilbert company but it was too little too late.

Although Cox marched on under the Leisure Dynamics umbrella, A.C. Gilbert faded into the dusk of history.

rsv1cox wrote:I'm a little surprised that this unique and very well built Cox engine didn't generate more discussion and on the Cox Engine Forum too.  

I'm enjoying this thread Bob. I have no doubt that this chainsaw will soon join your arsenal of tree felling, limbing and bucking tools.

I've had my eyes peeled for one of these saws for years. I've only seen one in person and it was at an antique power and threshing show, on a display trailer of many other vintage chainsaws, and wasn't for sale.


I have two small older McCulloch chainsaws and an older Stihl chainsaw that I need to get going one of these days. I've been getting by with a pair of electric (plug in) chainsaws, that I often run off a little 2 cycle generator I drag with me around the yard .

Done mostly except for replacing the chain drive shaft Woodruff key which is worn. Just got replacements troday.




Previous owner had been in there then came to the locked up engine, gave up and slapped it back together. Works fine now, pulls over with lot's of compression. Surprise considering the scoring on the piston, but the rings are fine as is the cylinder wall.




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Excellent job there as usual, Bob, I was concerned the rings on the piston may have been seized to the piston, apparently not! Looks like yo must have used some Howard's on the thumb throttle, nice bright red now. Does it have spark, and is that a CEF decal on the chain bar? Looks like it belongs there!

Don

pman1111 wrote:Excellent job there as usual, Bob, I was concerned the rings on the piston may have been seized to the piston, apparently not! Looks like yo must have used some Howard's on the thumb throttle, nice bright red now. Does it have spark, and is that a CEF decal on the chain bar? Looks like it belongs there!

                         Don

Thanks Don,

No I cheated. Didn't want to but no way was I going to restore that color. I did use Howards (you know me too well) on the black oil compartment compartments plug.

Bob, I am simply amazed at the quality of the chainsaw. The housing is cast aluminum, not plastic like a lot of the less expensive home use chain saws these days. Are you going to refinish the exterior yellow on the one that you have not started work on yet?

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bob, I am simply amazed at the quality of the chainsaw. The housing is cast aluminum, not plastic like a lot of the less expensive home use chain saws these days. Are you going to refinish the exterior yellow on the one that you have not started work on yet?

That's a nasty one George.




It still has bar oil and gasoline residue in the tanks.  I think tomorrow I'm going to add some more, try to start it and see what happens.  It has compression and the recoil rewinder works fine.  Spark?  I don't know.  and...........it is a pile of parts!

That one would be an easy restore, no engine/recoil problems and now that I know where the bodies are buried it should go faster.  BTW I could not remove the Z bend rod from the thumb speed control on the restored one, tried to but I was afraid of breaking the plastic so I painted it in place.  

I found a vintage chainsaw forum and looked around.  Not much about the Cox saws there, they are very uncommon.

Before I disassemble the second chain saw I thought I would try to start it.  A little 16/1 in the fuel tank, a little prime down the carburator and pulled the recoil start about seven times without a cough.  I gave up along with the starter which would not retract.  These were sold as "parts" engines.



Still not much on the net about these.  I thought maybe Cox just brand engineered it by putting their label on someone else's product.  But no, according to what I have read in Dannels/Sitter's book this came from Leroy's mind.  I know that they got the blade arm and chain from Oregon as they are so marked but little things indicate Cox as well as big things like the flywheel and engine which are both marked Cox.

Known as the "left-hand" engine as the chain arm is located on the left side rather than standard right.




It evolved from Cox's Bronco bicyle engine and their 140 series engine, Cox built about 30,000 of them according to Sitter.  There should be a lot of them around as they were an all-purpose engine powering most everthing.

Bob, You have the first one looking like brand new!!…. Interesting how Cox incorporated the handle as part of the carb pathway…. I assume the carb will bolt to the engine directly as those sold as stand alone ? ….. I had a mid 60’s Clinton 3hp two stroke that I played with for a lot of years…. I got it from an old farmer that had a belt drive washing pump hooked up to it….Finally gave it to a friend to motorize a bicycle….

Looks like a worthy candidate for "Cox Engine of the Month" !

Don

rdw777 wrote:Bob, You have the first one looking like brand new!!…. Interesting how Cox incorporated the handle as part of the carb pathway…. I assume the carb will bolt to the engine directly as those sold as stand alone ? ….. I had a mid 60’s Clinton 3hp two stroke that I played with for a lot of years…. I got it from an old farmer that had a belt drive washing pump hooked up to it….Finally gave it to a friend to motorize a bicycle….

I don't know Robert and I can't find a proper picture of the Bronco or utility engine to find out.  Maybe a dedicated engine for the chainsaw that accepts this particular carburator/pistol grip handle which bolts right on here.  Picture above new in the box came from Worthpoint.



Thanks Don, it is a pretty looking engine if you're a cox fan.  

Edit add:

This is interesting, found right here on the forum:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t1200-on-ebay-cox-bronco?highlight=bronco

"Cox sold the manufacturing rights to the Roper company so that these engines exist with "Cox" as well as "Roper" name plates.

O&R made chainsaws and also offered a utility engine which was used for several items.   Here's my almost new like example.

Nice Ken, it's got the O&R shield that I always thought neat. Got their model engines but I did not know that they offered a utility engine.

External coil? Different pull handle than normal. What does it's output shaft look like?

I'd like to have one of those O&R Tiny Tiger generators one day. Unlike the Cox chainsaw, I've come across a couple of those little generators "in the wild" in person before, never for cheap though, well over $300. I saw a really nice probably unused one with it's original box for something like $700 once. Someday I'll have to put my money where my mouth is for one, and for one of these chainsaws.

Bob, the coil is external. I find it amazing that the small paper around the spark plug is still on this engine. A bit wrinkled but it says to properly care for this engine using correct oil and ratio. DO not run this engine on straight gasoline. My son and I are O&R collectors. Not that I consider myself a collector, I have a substantial amount of O&R engines which I run all of them. I just think they're the neatest small engines I have and some of the oldest. From the .049 Mite to the larger .60's, I have what I consider rare examples mainly due to anodized head colors.

I have a new or almost brand new Tartan single. The Tartan was used as a weed eater engine. It's a two stroke reed valve engine it was also made as a twin. Mine however is a aircraft version which utilizes a Super Tiger needle and carb. It also is a glow engine. It looks completely ridiculous as it's about the same size as your Cox engine looking somewhat similar but instead of a plug, there's this tiny glow plug. I really want to get this to run. I know it uses little oil as 8% is the recommended oil content with no nitro however 5% will suffice. I assume the compression ratio is high. I think it swings up to a 18" prop. I could have the incorrect as it maybe a 14".

Nice restore , you got it looking good ! Reminds me I got a piston/cylinder kit to put on a Stihl MS270 so I can get this big stuff cut for winter !!

getback wrote:Nice restore , you got it looking good ! Reminds me I got a piston/cylinder kit to put on a Stihl MS270 so I can get this big stuff cut for winter !!

Good luck with it Eric.  My son bought a whiz-bang Stihl electronic/altitude compensated chain saw and is bringing it back.  My 10 year old standard 16" Stihl works every time and finished cutting up this tree after his failed.



He just sent me this video of unboxing a new Cox chainsaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYzkgJ_JjxY

Hello Bob, dear friend, regarding your comment on the participation in the discussion, I have been seeing the entire process that you are carrying out.
You made me curious about another historical Cox product, so I looked for additional information, You can see it here: https://vintagechainsawcollection.blogspot.com/2011/07/ohlson-engine-mounted-drillgine.html
I have not issued an opinion because I am a spectator trapped in the whole process and in the story. It's a beautiful thing for me to discover the vast universe that Cox was... those really creative people. I always say that it must have been a wonderful time of much imagination and dreams.
I don't know, but there is something that unites me a lot with the United States, perhaps it is imagination, but it is something that I have really felt since I was a child...
When I was a child my grandfather was a mechanic, my uncle had a service station and auto parts sales, there were endless American brands there, Champion, Texaco, STP, Chevrolet, Ford, etc etc... I think I had an environment enriched with US history...I enjoyed that a lot and now it fills me with memories.
Thank you Bob for sharing another piece of Cox history...

Thanks for that information Mauricio, I book marked it.  Lot's of good information there.

"Joe Cox was my great grandfather. The Cox 140 saw you acquired was given to my grandfather by Roy his brother, the letters A.W.Cox stand for Alvin Willard (Dick) as people around the plant knew him. My grandfather designed it and Roy machined it for the application."




First saw has found a home, at least for now.  Levent finds his way into many of my projects.  A temporary stick-on until I can replace my color cartridge and put a couple of nice water slides on there.  

Good work Bob

If you measure the diameter of Cox instructions aluminum label on body then I can make two reproductions on self adhesive backed aluminum and can send to your address. Yet I don't know the adhesive on aluminum sheet is gasoline proof or not

Levent Suberk wrote:Good work Bob  

If you measure the diameter of Cox instructions aluminum label on body then I can make two reproductions on self adhesive backed aluminum and can send to your address.  Yet I don't know the adhesive on aluminum sheet is gasoline proof or not

That would be incredible Levent.  I didn't know you could do that however I should have known better.  

I'm looking at 2.5 inches or around 63.5 mm.






Either the 140 Series or Beaver emblem would be fine.  If you can't find a picture of one let me know.  Thanks - Bob