010 head stops glowing

MauricioB wrote:thanks Jacob, look, I have sometimes solved this problem by enriching the fuel with castor oil, ie running the engine with high castor oil for a while, as it works, in some cases it has been sealed with the oil itself.

This is interesting as I was reading some glow plug patents the other day and it stated this exactly. They were lubricating center electrode parts with castor prior to pressing with some hope this helps seal the joint.

I’ve enjoyed this thread too…. It was good to learn that the wires for the coils are solid reactive metal instead of only plated…. I was always curious about that..Thanks for that bit of info …

rsv1cox wrote:Wow, how did I miss this thread! Went back and read every response from Andras's initial post forward.  Interesting evolution as great minds combined to identify and hopefully resolve the issue.  1200 grit and a smooth glass surface solves many problems.  Levents gap, Mauricio's Spanish, Math, Intrigue - reads like a Raymond Chandler novel.   Bernie + Matt ='s our gratitude. (My math)

Niagra .... slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch ....

video humor:

Abbott and Costello evolved into Martin and Lewis, laughed with them both. The propeller cap in the A&C video is well received here.

rsv1cox wrote:Abbott and Costello evolved into Martin and Lewis, laughed with them both.  The propeller cap in the A&C video is well received here.  

This one here involves aircraft factory work and engineers. I could see him testifying about these engine glow heads.

I’m not blaming Matt or Bernie. Here is another one, part fail. Lol It just goes to show that every once in awhile there is some miner issues wth manufacturing. Lol so I order some parts from Matt, almost a monthly thing for me. So I get this engine together and I look at it again and I realize something is wrong. So I take it back apart and I’m trying to figure out how did I screw this up? I kept turning the tank and its a no go. Lol Take a close look at the photo and see if you can spot the problem.
I got a hold of Matt and he replaced it right away.
Thanks Matt for your great service
Bob

Basswood wrote:
I’m not blaming Matt or Bernie. Here is another one, part fail. Lol  It just goes to show that every once in awhile there is some miner issues wth manufacturing. Lol so I order some parts from Matt, almost a monthly thing for me. So I get this engine together and I look at it again and I realize something is wrong. So I take it back apart and I’m trying to figure out how did I screw this up? I kept turning the tank and its a no go. Lol Take a close look at the photo and see if you can spot the problem.
I got a hold of Matt and he replaced it right away.
Thanks Matt for your great service
Bob

Bingo!

You got it MauricioB. I emailed Matt and I asked is this a new limited capacity fuel tank.
Bob

MECOA makes their own glow heads but only in .049.  They admit that prices have "skyrocketed" due to the cost of the elements material.  I have bought many of them and have always been happy with their performance. I don't know if their machining could be modified to produce .010 and .020 heads but it would be nice if they would.  Probably not cost effective in those sizes.  On ebay MECOA's .049 heads go for $16.99 each, I remember when they cost half that amount.

Mauricio,

Sorry for the belated reply but I just got back from camping.

Yes, that is Theresa's handwriting.

What you have experienced is a loss of compression via the "core seals", because the head was not properly pressed together. It is something that we have come across on occasion but unfortunately can't test this prior to shipping, as one basically has to test this on an engine.

In spite of the purchase being over four years ago, please remind us of this issue when you place your next order and we will send you a replacement glow head.

MauricioB wrote:

Cox International wrote:Not sure where those heads are from, as we don't package them that way (not is it our handwriting). We also would not write "gaskets" in Spanish.

Although we did have some leaky 049 heads some years ago (they were not properly pressed), we did not come across any 010 versions like this so far. Which doesn't mean that it can't happen. Again, we warrant what we sell.

MauricioB wrote:good. Here are the glow plugs I received. On the left is the one that loses compression through the (cathode or anode), it makes a micro bubble or balloon when it is in operation.
It doesn't hold the engine running at low rpm, probably due to pressure loss.
It is dated the day of the test in the plastic envelope: 08/04/2019, (April 4, 2019).
The other glow plug on the right came with this one, but I haven't used it yet, (I put a Cox Vintage glow plug on my engine).
I don't remember the exact supplier, but it is possible that they come from Mr. Bernie, since he buys some accessories through my importer, Mr. Ojeda.

Indicated with an oval and green arrow .010 that's original vendor handwriting, someone on the vendor's team might be able to recognize it.

Mr. Bernie only the letter marked in green is that of the supplier. everything else is my own handwriting, do you understand? In my comment I try to indicate that.
I can maybe trace the supplier, I have to contact the importer and see if he has the order, but I don't claim anything, I just share a personal experience.

Hello Mr. Bernie!!...
I understand that some part can fail. I do not claim anything, I repeat, I only share this experience.
Exactly when I detected the problem, I discarded the glow plug and I didn't inform him of anything, it is that I keep in mind that this can happen, we are very far away (cost distance) and I let it go.
I appreciate your attention and your support, if at any time I make an order, I remind you.
A hug from Argentina, thank you.

Basswood wrote:You got it MauricioB. I emailed Matt and I asked is this a new limited capacity fuel tank.
Bob

Thanks Mauricio and just remind us on your next order.

MauricioB wrote:Hello Mr. Bernie!!...
I understand that some part can fail. I do not claim anything, I repeat, I only share this experience.
Exactly when I detected the problem, I discarded the glow plug and I didn't inform him of anything, it is that I keep in mind that this can happen, we are very far away (cost distance) and I let it go.
I appreciate your attention and your support, if at any time I make an order, I remind you.
A hug from Argentina, thank you.

I decided recently to buy 010 heads from a modellshop in the EU/Germany (https://www.mg-modellbau.de/)   just to avoid payment of 27% value added tax when imported to Hungary from Canada or the US, and - low and behold- experienced the same defects as some of you and I also confirmed in this topic: with the 010 aftermarket heads the engine sags and thousands of rpm-s are lost when the glow clip is disconnected. (I do not even mention how poorly the glow head seals at its bottom, the same polishing is required as discussed in this topic earlier.)

I am not sure if this German modelshop buys the heads from the same US aftermarket producer as Bernie and Matt buy, but would be surprised if more than one manufacturer produced the 010 heads for this, even if global, but still very niche market.

I submitted a complaint to the German shop - I got 6 such scrap heads for more than 100€-s from them- but would encourage Bernie and Matt too, again, to let the glow head manufacturer know that either the thickness, or the platina iridium content of the glow filament, or both,  are to be increased, because we are wasting heavy $$$$$$$$ - s for defective goods..

P.S. to Bernie and Matt: I hope it transpires from my story that I am not blaming the resellers like COX International, or Exmodelengines, or the German shop, but we should all unite in letting the aftermarket glow head producer know about this acute and repeating quality issue of the 010 heads.

That’s too bad on the new .010 heads Andras …. I get it wanting to have a stock of these for practical use in the engines…..Not directly related but a bit of a glow plug story….. About a year ago I bought a K&B Infant .020 knowing it would be chancy if the glow plug worked or not….. When I got it I found the plug to be intact and would glow nicely when connected to power….. However the engine would not sustain running when disconnected from power….. So I started researching how to clean platinum hoping I could help it …. Most of the information I found came from cleaning jewelry….. I found out platinum will react with hydrogen peroxide and from bubbles…. So I gave it a test and compared the
K & B plug to a known old but good runner Cox .020 head…. Photo below..




You can see the difference in bubbles generated over the same amount of time, About 15 minutes…It still didn’t help the Infant plug though but maybe told me a little more about its condition….. Maybe this test could be used on the .010 plugs….

Another thing I’ve noticed on new vs OEM Cox .010 plugs is that the wire diameter seems larger in the new ones…. Impossible to tell for sure without destroying two plugs and measuring with a micrometer ….Correct wire size would be critical on something this small…

Thanks for the heads-up Robert, it is a clear indication that aftermarket heads need to be guaranteed by the supplier for full functionality..the German 010 head supplier just responded to me, and much to my surprise, mentioned that they also make 010 heads in Germany, so they sold me not US but German-made 010 heads, with the same defect symptoms as the US-made heads, and they will check the specifications.

I understand that Bernie and Matt may not be in a position to functionally test the 010 aftermarket heads made in the US, but we CEF members-especially those of us residing in Canada or USA, not myself, living in a different continent - may volunteer to do house bench tests putting test 010 heads on our 010 engines and check their consistent run,  before Bernie and Matt buy a larger production run from their supplier..it is at the end we who may lose money if we buy untested heads, given the sensitivity of these heads to the filament dimensions and platina iridium content?

Interesting those heads were made in Germany…. That speaks of the .010’s continued popularity even if it’s a niche interest…. Hopefully, discussion will help find a resolution…. Regardless, Thanks to the vendors for best efforts….

Andras,

I am sorry to hear that you had issues with Cox .010 glow heads (again). I took the time to read through the entire multi-page thread and following are my comments.

• Our 010 heads are made to exact OEM Cox drawings, since June / 2009 - and we have sold several thousand of them since.
  
  Until the Summer of last year, there were zero complaints over those heads (as far as my memory serves me). When you posted on this forum in this regard last year, we refunded you for the three heads that you purchased, and initiated a thorough investigation, also liaising with our competitor, Matt from Ex Model Engines. This in no way invalidates your experience with the three glow heads that you purchased from us.
  
  Another poster (Mauricio) mentioned that his glow head was leaking through the insulators inside, and we offered to send a replacement with his next order. This is a (different) rare defect that can be inherent to any of the glow head sizes.
  
  It is our and Matt's position that the glow heads we manufacture are to Cox OEM specs, including the correct filament.
  
  We are the supplier of those to Ex Model Engines.
  
  It is our and Matt's position that we stand 100% behind what we sell, and will replace or refund any merchandise that is defective.
  
  We can confirm that we did, and still do, supply 010 heads to mg-modellbau in Germany, and so far have not heard a single complaint in this respect from Vincent (the owner).
  
  I find it challenging to believe that someone else would be manufacturing Cox 010 glow heads, due to the very low demand for those. However, I will email Vincent and ask him.
  

Bernie,

Thank you for the confirmation of your and Matt's policy.

Remember that apart from myself and Mauricio, Robert aka rdw777 also advised about the issue of the glow heads not self-sustaining the engine operation after the clip is disconnected.

I copy below the email message I got yesterday  from Vincent of MgModellbau, who claims to manufacture 010 heads, and says he knows what I am talking about ( I wrote to him the mass and platina iridium content of the filaments may be the reason for the flame-out after the clip is disconnected), at least I read his lines that he is not defying what I complain about.






I am not fishing for monetary compensation. My TeeDee010 engines, if run properly, are worth much more to me than the 13...15 USD or € I pay for each head. If you read CEF you will find I am an active 010 user with - as I write this - , at least 3 RC planes I built and regularly fly with 010 engines, ( let alone 3+ others in the past decade) so I humbly state to have gathered some user experience with them during the many tens of hours of airtime these gems have performed under my thumbs, and I would not complain with no reason.

The rarity of complaints may be related to the rarity of these engines and even more scarce number of modelers actively using these antique gems with practically unavailable cyilinder and piston sets, so the overwhelming majority of still existing 010-s are shelf queens and not active powerhouses? Collectors will not complain about operational issues.




I trust we will find a solution with Vincent. Until then I must cannibalize my old stock TeeDee010 engines for their stock heads that never showed the symptoms I talk about..

Andras,

You are correct Andras, Robert also had an issue; which I oversaw when re-reading the thread.

Again, I am in no way invalidating your experiences, just stating that, in 15 years, we have had two (3?) people mentioning this issue. Not sure how many individual buyers we have had for those heads, but we have now sold almost 3,000 of the 010 heads.

And also again, we are making them to OEM Cox drawings; whereas it is quite possible that Cox made them differently prior to 1997, the date of our drawings. Is it possible that our vendor did not adhere to the specs as they pertain to the filament? I mean ... possible but unlikely. They have been making them since 2009 and, before the two complaints on this forum last year, we had not heard of this issue.

What I am guessing is that they were made differently before 1997 but we need to go with original Cox drawings, as I am not an engineer or technician, just a marketing person

Looking at Vincent's response, he is making F3D Glow plugs and not Cox 010 glow heads. He actually just replied to me that he does not manufacture any Cox parts at all, but does manufacture F3T and F3D glow plugs.

Bernie

Thanks, I understood Vincent refered to COX heads, I actually did not know what those F3...names are.

With the only origin of these heads remaining your single vendor in the US, I think I am left with the few stock heads on my NIB engines that I can use with certainty..Sorry, but this is the fact.


Regarding the complaints: There are 5021 registered users on CEF and I could not name more than maybe 8 who ever stated during my 13 years of CEF membership to have run 010 engines. There may be more, but certainly much fewer than users of larger COX engines.

All I am saying the fewer the active 010 users, the fewer the complaints on aftermarket heads.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts to solve this puzzle.

Andras,

Is it possible that almost 3,000 of those glow heads are sitting on engines that have not been run? Possibly but still challenging for me to wrap my head around that You are correct: lower sales = lower complaints, but I was also referring to an overall %. Perhaps also that a 2,000 - 3,000 RPM decrease is acceptable to the majority of those buyers?

I really don't have an answer here Andras, just stating the facts, and I would never intentionally suppress complaints on the forum or elsewhere. We have had our share of defective production runs over the years, just not with 010 glow heads, and have always admitted it if we manufactured product that was faulty.

BTW our 010, 020 and 049 (regular and Tee Dee) heads are made in Shenzhen. Some years ago we tried to get 049 ones made in the USA and they were mostly defective and had to be returned (please, absolutely to dissing is intended towards American manufacturers).

Thanks Bernie.

If I can prevail on my wife to help me shot a video on this beast screaming over 100dB(A) and dropping speed when the clip is disconnected, with any and all aftermarket heads, I would gladly send it over to you to challenge your Chinese supplier.

For RC plane applications the loss of rpm from 27k to e.g. 23k or even lower may be fatal and cause the plane to stall and fall..

Anyway thanks for the patience reading my posts...I do not see a solution to the problem and will use the old stock heads on my NIB engines while they last.