McDonnell Douglas C-17 Video

Thanks for sharing this video. I worked for the company back in the 1980's, even participated in the Airloads Calibration Test, involved in the software for the test. Test was to certify to the Air Force the plane could withstand cabin pressure and then some more. It was our data system that monitored the various strain gauges and pressure monitors. Got to walk around the partially finished prototype airframe.

It was in the early 1990's, the first takeoff they filmed from the now defunct Douglas Aircraft Company of 3855 Lakewood Blvd, Long Beach, CA 90807 I got witness. Plane took off, then they had a professional photographer and videographer atop one of Douglas buildings take photos and motion film. Plane made a 360, then did a low pass.

Photo below is a framed poster of the C-17 passing the tall administrative with the McDonnell Douglas Logo atop that I keep.



Shortly after, I left the company, moved on. Back in 2005, I attended some training in the LA area. I drove by the facility, only to see piles of demolished construction rubble. Even the multistory Building 208, adjoined engineering buildings 35 & 36, and test hangar 41 where i worked from were gone. Only the C-17 buildings on the other side of the airport and MD-90 (DC-9) manufacturing hangar across the street remained. No doubt the MD-90 is gone (Kept to appease most likely the unions, but that's my speculation. It died, a relic of the company's past.)

Thank you, that is a really cool story! Great history. When I first saw what was on the tape, I figured someone on here would find it interesting, but you having an actually connection to it takes to another level.


 So, where in the video are you? LOL.

Would you like the tape?  It's just going to float around in a box with my other misc. video tapes otherwise. I bet it would feel more at home with you.

I appreciate your generous offer, but I'll have to pass. I downloaded the video and now have it, VHS players are getting harder to find and I'd have to convert it anyway. The downloaded file is of decent quality to me, so thanks again. I'd have to check with my "archive", but it is possible that I may have that very video probably coupled with an MDC quarterly status VHS.

Regarding where I was, I was just outside the C-17 administrative facility on the south side of the Long Beach Airport, standing with a good sized group of other MDC employees. The company actually erected bleachers for the employees and guests to sit and watch. It was fun to watch the plane take off and do a fly by, prior to heading to Edwards Air Force Base for further tests.

My goodness MY how time flies

Early career I got moved about by C -123s, CH 46s~ 47s and C-130s...then the occasional C-141 (I hate 141s)

and I have so many back of the bus flights in a C-5a they should have paid me flight pay...seriously...

I was actually disappointed the first time I saw a C-117 up close

BUT then I am a AH-1 Cobra Attack Helicopter guy who thought the Apache AH-64 was a total over priced POS

Funny how we can assign love of something despite the FACTS of ability

Did I ever mention the time we stuffed 12 AH-1F Bell Cobras into a C-5a

Certainly some one here will call BS and might even claim to know the max for any cargo load in that giant ass bird... BUT there are always missions that require critical thinking and use of available assets.......hint...weight was NOT the problem...volume and good tie down ability was

I also was unfortunate enough to fly in the back of a C-5a with Two (2) full Abrams M-1 MBT* and One AH-64 from Langley AFB VA to King Kaheid Military City (KKMC) in Feb 1991 landing on a 9800 foot run way with a 65 knot side wind...OK Ok truth is--- at final 50 foot AGL the wind backed off to 52 knots....but I assure you the Colonel flying, the Major CPilot, and Cpt Navigating, and the rest of all of us were so puckered up that three days later we still could not crap for the drawers so tightly packed up in our asses***

In the late 80s the C5s were weight restricted due to wing root cracks to have only 50% rated cargo weight...Gen Schwarzkopf was well behind in his plan for XXX Tank brigades By Jan 91 and the AF lifted the flight restriction Nov 1990 to allow 2 at a time M-1 MBTs in the cargo bay...(100% caoacity for weight) I loaded out some 14 loads and have the hearing loss to attest the C5s engines can haul the load!!... Come on George...help me out...tell the crowd here how a MAX weight cargo lifter has the balls to still bust your ears and flip support equipment all over a run way

***1 Main Battle Tank...52 to 59 Ton depending on load out

At the end of Desert Storm I returned from Saudi to Ft Campbell 101 AD in a Tower 747 that took off OVER max gross weight using every single inch of a 12,000 foot runway...484 Pax ( and all our duffel bags)..... side note the most ever booze I have ever been offered on ANY flight

We did the hero worship thing at NY La Guardia then off to Ft Campbell... Only a 6500 foot run way

I was senior NCO so got to sit top side and look out forward on that upper deck 747s have... so called first class deck

5 miles out the pilot had us at 500 AGL with some ( I think 30%) flaps...two miles out he added full flap and Waller us down to 150 AGL wiggling and wagging along just above stall buffet...

Most of my cohorts were either asleep or drunk...Me a pilot and fascinated by my first 747\flight was on the sticks and rudder literally... with my senior pilot actually doing as I commanded...in my mind----grin

I was ( in my head) calling out orders to my co pilot...flipping switches, making sure LG was down and locked, making sure I had the right flaps for the air speed, SWEATING MY ASS OFF...calling approach...commenting to the CP we are a little high and hot...flipping the seat belt switch...

I see us cross over 61A Highway and just clear the installation east fence and I feel the pilot pull all engines to flight idle and let us sink the last few feet...then reversers and slowly ever so slowly add power more and more cuz this heavy bitch is gonna eat every inch of this concrete

I am looking out and see the hangers and many hundreds of wives and kids waiting the heroes... but we are still zooming down the runway over 80MPH... reversers now at full shuddering max... toe brake to the floor... flapping the rudder left and Right, the threshold stripes are nearing... down to 60MPH...then 40ish....terminal event...twist in left steering and hope the starboard wing tip does not dig dirt...

Hey guys I was following all this and can tell you that Right wing tip was less than 6" form the dirt when he skidded us onto the taxi way with all the trucks squalling badly and making an impressive layer of burned rubber on the runway

This pilot was such a smart ass...instead of full stop, regroup, then throttle up and taxi to park... just as we lurched forward to the weight transfer of deceleration...HE throttle them all up and finished the turn under power and fast walked that beast to the waiting crowd

Final... I was TDY to Saudi and Iraq on a TRADOC mission... home base was Ft Eustice...so 101 land at Ft Campbell was not my final destination and there was not one soul there to lip lock me and I knew it.... SO I let EVERY soldier egress and held back out of the way... down the stairs from upper deck I made my way to the flight deck and confronted the air crew..and related this exact story of my (pseudo flight knowledge) and my take off and landing experience...

Col Harmon USAF Ret...The Tower PIC told me... "Fred...I knew when we refueled in NY that I got too much and the landing was going to be a problem unless I flew circles and burned off the excess.... I fussed about that for that final 2 hours of the flight and decided that I could safely do the critical landing--- Maybe not good for the air frame or engines but safe enough to make sure your familys did not have to wait one second longer'.... Josh Harmon and I are still good friends to this day... and he thinks my landing was just fine

Interesting first hand story, Fred. My only experience with C-5A was 1974 space-A flight from Hickam AFB, Honolulu to March AFB, Riverside, CA. Was prayerfully waiting at the Space-A terminal at Hickam (back then you literally had to camp out at the terminal, no on-call waiting lists). We wanted to attend a weekend Navigator Fellowship Conference at Disneyland. At 2:00 AM, An unscheduled C-5 with a load of engines landed, enroute to March. I was amazed at the 65 passenger mezzanine floor in the tail. Breakfast was served by a Air Force sergeant in flight suite. It was of the same quality as a standard airline meal. We paid a couple bucks for the flight, which was for the in-flight meal.

Also, I'm wrong about the zip, that was our Long Beach residential address, MDC's was 90846. AFAIK, the company facilities there were large enough that they had their own zip at the time. Back around 1988, we had 65,000 employees. A few times I rode my 1971 Honda CB100 motorcycle to the back lot parking nearest test hangar #41. Since the motorcycle parking lot was next to the security shack, I had "privileged parking" just like the general managers had. We worked in a 3-story office building butted up against it, #41A. Windows were permanently blacked out with paint, because years before the occupants were working on a highly classified aircraft program during the cold war years.

Also, an engineer buddy introduced me to his engineer friend in the simulations lab, got to fly the T-45 Naval Trainer simulator. It was stationary with hydraulic stick to mimic hydraulic flight action including shake when stalling. It had a custom graphics computer linked to a DEC Vax minicomputer. I made my first carrier landing!

C-17 had basically almost the same fuselage cross section, but 2/3rds the cargo length of the C-5. Basically its capacity was about 2/3rds of the C-5. AFAIK, the C-5 could carry 6 city buses, the C-17 carried 4.

I was picked up and thrown toes over ears by wash from a Leer corporate jet doing a throttle check. I *should* have been far enough away where I was walking...

Visiting my brother at the airport was fun. I was in high school.

I can easily believe a loaded transport throwing around ground equipment.

Phil

Thanks Jacob , Good video and the spark of interest from your members with insight of the avent Man thats one BIG airjet !!

fredvon4 wrote:My goodness MY how time flies. Early career I got moved about by C -123s, CH 46s~ 47s and C-130s...then the occasional C-141 (I hate 141s) and I have so many back of the bus flights in a C-5a they should have paid me flight pay...seriously...

Kinda' hard for "passengers" to get flight pay, no?    

I was actually disappointed the first time I saw a C-117 up close.

Not sure why's that. C-17 was designed to haul 2/3rds the load of a C-5 and be able to land and take off in the space of a C-130, and on unimproved runways (probably the closest thing to Russian aircraft philosophy.)

C-17 Cost Reduction and Wing Truss Story

I had a senior structural engineer who was also a friend. One thing he was tasked with was cost reduction. Engineer who designed the engine pylon mounting system used roughly 15 different bolts to attach it to the airframe and engine to it. He reduced the count to something like 5. Each bolt had to be certified aircraft hardware, I forget exact cost apiece (couple hundred each?), but the companies they ordered these parts from had a minimum order requirement of something like 5,000 bolts minimum. Design engineer had a different length bolt for each location.

We had 1 million pound actuators doing accelerated cyclic fatigue tests on the C-17 wing trusses. I was in the hangar when one gave way. There was a loud "bang", like an explosion occurred. The failsafe features of our software detected the failure, terminated the test and shut down the hydraulics to these actuators.

DC-9 Cabin Pressurization Story

I remember the DC-9 fuselage undergoing cyclic cabin pressurization test. It was already on its second life time, when a test bulkhead blew. They replaced the bulkhead and continued the test. (1 life time is roughly 20 years.) Basically, the DC jets were designed with unlimited life time as a safety feature. This is why you still see DC-8's and DC-10's flying. This is one thing the Douglas engineers prided themselves with. You don't see many Boeing 707's flying anymore, retired because of cyclic fatique limits. Boeing had a 737 some years back become a convertible over the Hawaiian ocean (Maui Channel), losing its fuselage roof above the passengers, resulting in a stewardess being sucked away and lost.

DC-10 Accident Stories

A tragic accident happened where a DC-10 cartwheeled in Sioux City, Iowa. There was a loss of hydraulics and without moving flight surfaces, the pilots had to fly the plane using the throttles to control altitude and banking control. Most the passengers survived. My senior engineer colleagues commented on how that because of the strength of the fuselage, the airplane held together well enough that many passengers survived the crash.

DC-10 crash at O'Hare International in Chicago resulted when an outboard engine pylon attachment failed releasing engine and ripping out the hydraulics including backups, causing the aircraft wing that lost the engine, for its forward slat to retract, causing unequal lift. Resulting barrel roll and Figure-9 tragically killed everyone on board. This happened 2 years prior to my starting work.

I remember discussing with the senior engineers. Come find out, American Airline mechanics had a "brilliant" idea that to save money on engine removal, they did not follow maintenance manual procedures. They were to unbolt and remove the engine first, then unbolt the engine pylon and remove. Instead, they decided a shortcut to use a forklift, unbolt the pylon with engine attached.

When they remounted the pylon, their precarious alignment rebolting (IMO forklift is not a precise alignment system), prestressed the bolts which held the pylon. Those bolts failed, causing the bolts to break loose releasing the pylon. No doubt those mechanics and supervision were terminated, but a failure to adhere to manufacturer's written requirements resulted in the tragic loss of life. This is a reason why IMO the military departments are sticklers on strict adherence to mechanic manual procedures.

Military Helicopter Mechanic Story

BUT then I am a AH-1 Cobra Attack Helicopter guy who thought the Apache AH-64 was a total over priced POS. Funny how we can assign love of something despite the FACTS of ability. Did I ever mention the time we stuffed 12 AH-1F Bell Cobras into a C-5a

Back in 1980 as a member of the Hawaii Army National Guard, I attended the UH-1H Helicopter Repair Course at Fort Rucker, AL for 3-1/2 months. I learned lockwire was done 6 - 8 turns per inch, every nut and nearly every bolt on the plane is lockwired, torque wrench is your friend. I also found out what was called the "Jesus Nut" (huge "prop" nut that held the main rotor to the mast, think it required 600 foot pounds torque).    Back then they even sent reservists to the active duty schools. I was a Spec-5 at the time, and found out that basic trainee graduates considered everyone over PFC as "god". I was a squad leader, even marched the entire company to school and back at times. Called out road guards to the intersection. One soldier claimed, "What happens if a car hits me?". I told him, "I'll fill out an accident report."

As "ranking NCO", for all students waiting on the next phase (class), was tasked to take about 60 students on police call (rubbish pickup detail - FOD check for USAF types   ) outside the school hangar. I told them to bend down and pick 'em up. They hadn't picked up a thing. I religned them up and told them I wanted to see nothing but a*****es and elbows. This time we got a cleaned field. One kid was walking around with his hands in his pockets. I told him, "Hey you, get your hands out of your pockets!"
I never saw a person rip his hands out of his pockets so fast.  

One kid would not pick up anything. I asked him what his problem was, he told me that he didn't want to get his hands dirty. I turned him into the instructor (TAC Sergeant) over us waiting students. Come find out, this student had recently taken the FAST test (pilot aptitude test), was awaiting for approval to be transferred to the warrant officer candidate school and helicopter pilot training. This one foolish action costed him this life time opportunity.

Military Band Story

Politics got hot and heavy after being with that aviation unit for two years, when they reorganized us from maintenance (service company) to combat support transportation. They replaced our commander and first sergeant, merged a couple units. There was much favouritism with others over our folks, that 8 mechanics transferred to the Hawaiian Air Guard. I transferred to the 111th Army Band in Fort Ruger, Honolulu and was reinstated as a 02J Clarinet Player. (I left active duty 6 years prior with that and 02L Saxophone MOS [rating]) I did more flying with the band in the 4 months prior to graduating and moving to California to start work at Douglas, than 2 years with that helicopter unit. We played Aloha Day street parades and other events on all the islands. (Each Island has a different date for these "important" state events.) Life is tough but someone has to do it.  

Dear Lord George, you and I could fill an endless supply of these memories

MY comment about the C-117 followed by the "How we can love a thing despite other evidence of advanced capability" was a back handed way to say my prejudiced was what made me think the C117 was a back wards step relative to the C5a that I came to love, same with my Apache AH-64 initial dislike...

I was a true Bell Cobra believer at 1.2 mill a copy and pretty damned lethal....big picture-- I did not realize at the time-- the AH-64 would morph into the most versatile ATTACK Helicopter of all time... I was stuck with cost to kill thinking and NOT realizing the future with fully integrated cross service info sharing ...

A Cobra AH-1 has a very limited weight and always needed to trade fuel load for ammo load or vice versa... AH 64 does not have as strict a limitation

AH-1 can not carry the advanced systems the AH 64 does, and cannot talk to Miss AWACS and get 2 dozen pre planned target missions

I am still in awe every time I see BUFF flying patters over my home here...not so much now that they are all mostly at Diego Garcia and not Tinker....

Way back in the early 2000s we had at least two B-52 (BUFF) training flights a week from Tinker to *Gray Army Joint Use Airfield... some deliberate HEAVY loads with all sorts of emergency approach profiles.... My Aviation buddies and I would waste hours of tax payer pay--- out on the Operational Test Command Balcony--- and call out the different weird approaches.... Obviously most thrilling were the full stop short field exercises as well as the MAX performance take off with JATO on a very heavy bird

*GRW in the 50~60s was a SAC AF B-52 Nuke base with all sorts of Nike and other Air to Air missiles on the surrounding hills...as well as an extensive array of RADAR--- some of it the over the horizon early attempts...with a massive underground bunker system in the Hills

Locally we have a Harker Heights (town adjacent to Killeen) Flat top hill...Called Skipjaw "Mountain" -----that a B52 emergency landed on in the 60s... the crews repaired what ever was wrong with the bird as the engineers carved off the Hill top (at only 642  above sea level---"mountain" is not a proper way to describe it) and laid 7500 feet of PSP* so the BUFF could take of and finish flight to home base in Killeen

To this day much of the under ground tunnels and bigger work areas are re-furbished back when GWB was president.... as a safe haven for him if there was any local problems....  Even today, there are annual guided tours (only for VIPs) of the underground network

Then, of course this reminded me of my time in Hanau Germany, on Fleigerhorst Army Airfield that was a major place in WWII where the airfield was flooded by day and drained each night for Da Fuhrer's missions....very extensive underground airfield that I and several buddies broke into and explored during my 3 year assignment there as an Nuke artilleryman

That assignment early 1977~ late 1979 is when I re-enlisted to quit FA and do my rest of career in Aviation...my passion

* Perforated Steel Planking (PSP) a Army and Air Force thing used to create QUICK run ways or roads in unimproved areas

fredvon4 wrote:I was a true Bell Cobra believer at 1.2 mill a copy and pretty damned lethal....big picture-- I did not realize at the time-- the AH-64 would morph into the most versatile ATTACK Helicopter of all time... I was stuck with cost to kill thinking and NOT realizing the future with fully integrated cross service info sharing ... A Cobra AH-1 has a very limited weight and always needed to trade fuel load for ammo load or vice versa... AH 64 does not have as strict a limitation. AH-1 can not carry the advanced systems the AH 64 does, and cannot talk to Miss AWACS and get 2 dozen pre planned target missions.

Back in the 1980's, the UH-1H cost I think was $1 million. Personally I still think such an inexpensive multiuse helicopter still has a role. In combat, it doesn't take much to take down an aircraft and become infantry. For certain roles, a more expensive piece of equipment such as the now old Blackhawk is needed, but sometimes something useful but expendable is needed, too. We have huge national debt, we are expending money like it is going out of style. Seems our politicians to including down to municipalities are drunk on it. This is at a time when we should be conserving, reducing the burden on our citizens and small businesses.

AH-1 is a Vietnam era design. Bell took the mechanics of the UH-1 and created an attack helicopter with it. Warfare has morphed to "Borg" collective type systems requiring expensive computer and telecommunications hardware to be assimilated. Even the Army's recruiting slogans have changed to Borg-like in contrast to when I joined.

• 1971-1980 “Today’s Army Wants to Join You”
  
• 1980-2001 “Be All You Can Be”
  
• 2001-2006 “Army of One”
  
• Current “Army Strong”

Still remember a few details on the Huey, 209 gallons of JP-4 (now JP-8 ) or Jet-A, cargo capacity 4,000 lbs., T-53-L-13 Allison turboshaft engine at 1,500 SHP, 11 seating plus pilot and copilot.

The Cobra is now a 50 year old design. Yes, they've improved it, but sometimes a new approach is needed so airframe can efficiently carry all current equipment, munitions and fuel, and yet be maintainable (something our current auto industry has heavily departed from. I had to remove steering wheel and dash board to replace the heater core on my 1999 Chevy S10 pickup. I'm glad I have the 4 banger, otherwise with a V-6 I would have had to remove the bumper, grill, right fender and hood to get at one bolt to remove the unit.)

That assignment early 1977~ late 1979 is when I re-enlisted to quit FA and do my rest of career in Aviation...my passion

When I was attending the helicopter repair course, I met Spec-4's and Sergeants attending, who were moving from combat arms to aviation. One sergeant told me the following. A UH-1 would transport his squad of troops to the Arctic training area. Upon landing, he'd open the door. They'd jump out and spend the next couple weeks sleeping in the cold, eating cold C-Rations. This crew chief would wave them goodbye, close the door, fly home in a heated cab to a hot meal and a warm bed. He wanted to be that man.