Roddie's old Babe Bee

roddie Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:41 am

I'm pretty sure that I have all of the parts to assemble/restore the oldest Babe Bee that I have. Before joining CEF.. I had very little knowledge of how to date the engines/parts. In previous years, I'd never kept complete engines together. I took them apart.. and mixed the parts of Golden Bee's with Babe Bee's.. not really knowing that there were differences that affected performance.. (differently ported cylinders.. etc.)

Here's a "for instance".. I recently discovered that my two "Golden Bees" have different size venturi's. I've had both engines apart (at the same time..) numerous times.. and more than likely re-assembled them with the incorrect backplates and /or cylinders for that matter.

Roddie's old Babe Bee Golden10

Back to the Babe Bee... I knew that the early engines had a tapered crankcase-nose. I have a few of these.. but this morning I noticed that one of them has a thinner "web" to it's nose than the others.. and also doesn't have the groove for the spring-starter wire/hook machined into the boss on the top where the cylinder screws-on. This would be the older crankcase.. in my understanding.

It's the one on the left in the photo below.

Roddie's old Babe Bee Dsc02511

"Older" Babe Bee engine parts that I have found in my assortment include; an early backplate (no "Made in USA", no venturi-screen and a narrower "air-intake" slot) a "larger-knob" needle, a tank-bowl with "**Thimble-Drome"** markings, a Copper/Beryllium reed, a "3-piece" piston.. and a cylinder of which I'm not entirely sure about. The cylinder is a thin-wall type.. single-bypass and is "plain-steel".. (not black). I'm guessing that this cylinder was on an engine when it came into my possession many years ago.. but I can't remember.

Here are some shots of that cylinder..

Roddie's old Babe Bee Cylind13

There's also this weird "reed" that I have... I believe it's Steel.. and I've never seen another one like it. It may be a homemade one.. but it must have been in one of my engines at one time. Has anyone ever seen one like this?

Roddie's old Babe Bee Dsc02321

Am I on the right track so far?

ian1954 Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:08 am

Trying to date a Cox engine - especially the Bees is a minefield of ifs and buts.

This is the best guide available

http://www.modelenginecollecting.com/Cox%20Web%20Material/Cox-Book.html

But ......... unless you have an Bee still in its original, unopened packaging with a dated sales receipt - you may never get the date. Even then - that is the sales date and not the manufacture date.

The beauty of Cox engines is the swapability of parts. The drawback is that after 40 -60 years - parts may have been replaced or substituted - engines rebuilt and combined. That aside, the Cox factory did not always use the same parts for each engine "type". Parts were often "substituted" at the factory.

There are significant clues like the tapered and non tapered crankcase but the tanks for Golden Bees were produced over a long period of time. I have a Golden Bee with a TD 049 cylinder and tapered piston. Never, ever run with original Hales packaging!!!!!!! I will never know whether this was as supplied by the factory.

roddie Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:05 pm

ian1954 wrote:Trying to date a Cox engine - especially the Bees is a minefield of ifs and buts.

This is the best guide available

http://www.modelenginecollecting.com/Cox%20Web%20Material/Cox-Book.html

But ......... unless you have an Bee still in its original, unopened packaging with a dated sales receipt - you may never get the date. Even then - that is the sales date and not the manufacture date.

The beauty of Cox engines is the swapability of parts. The drawback is that after 40 -60 years - parts may have been replaced or substituted - engines rebuilt and combined. That aside, the Cox factory did not always use the same parts for each engine "type". Parts were often "substituted" at the factory.

There are significant clues like the tapered and non tapered crankcase but the tanks for Golden Bees were produced over a long period of time. I have a Golden Bee with a TD 049 cylinder and tapered piston. Never, ever run with original Hales packaging!!!!!!! I will never know whether this was as supplied by the factory.

Thank You Ian, Yes.. agreed; they are hard.. if not impossible to put a date on. I'm basically trying to restore a Babe Bee to a chronologically-correct state, using some parts that I've had here for decades. Most if not all of my Bee's have been in my family since they were new.. and handed-down over the years. It's possible that some of the Babe engine parts that I have here, came from a Cox RTF "Sopwith Camel" that my dad bought me when I was very young.. but it wouldn't be as early an example as some of the parts that I'm compiling. I think that this older engine may have been my Grandfather's. My dad recently gave me a box of odds and ends.. that had two #2 Cox .049 cylinders in it.. (no pistons.. just the cylinders.. What?

) Who knows what happened to the rest of the engine parts. There was also a McCoy .19RH in the box.. that's mostly complete.

I found some photos that may interest you, of a Cox UK licensed? (Tri-ang) "Fledgling" RTF model plane on the "Facebook/Control Line Enthusiasts" group. (See below)

Roddie's old Babe Bee 10917010

Perhaps you knew of the retailer?

Roddie's old Babe Bee 10915110

Mark Boesen Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:56 pm

I'd guess the same kid who made the reed also cleaned the cylinder with steel wool.

roddie Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:31 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:I'd guess the same kid who made the reed also cleaned the cylinder with steel wool.

it wasn't me... I swear.. Paranoid

ian1954 Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:05 pm

Now, believe it or not, that little label gives you an indication of the age of the model.

Firstly, Uxbridge is within Greater London - not that far from where I live but that label tells me that it predates my arrival in London!

The price "five pounds nineteen shillings and six pence" (five pounds ninety seven and a half new pence in the new rubbishy decimalised era that we live in now ( and there are no half new pences anymore) tells you that this model was on sale prior to 15th February 1971. (Five and a half years before my arrival in London).

Then - a little more complication. UXBRIDGE 33860 is not a post code but a telephone number. It predates the time when we could dial "long distance" numbers directly and would have to be connected by an operator. Remember when telephones had dials and not push buttons?

A famous number being asked for in old films (movies) is Whitehall 1212 (Scotland Yard - the London Police Headquarters).

In those days the Model Shop would only expect local calls. Using the dial, you would select UXB 33860 or 892 33860. The use of this dialling disappeared in the mid 60's.

So pre 1965 - I was still a schoolboy 200 miles away.

getback Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:30 pm

Yes O Yes I hear you With the bag of misfits I have been seeing a lot of stuff I have not before ........................ I put the no.1 cyl. piston that has worked/ will work with the piston to gather and let her Rip you can run it I don't it 's or sale !! Tring to get the exact date is too stupid for me! Snowman

getback Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:36 pm

ian1954 wrote:

Now, believe it or not, that little label gives you an indication of the age of the model.

Firstly, Uxbridge is within Greater London - not that far from where I live but that label tells me that it predates my arrival in London!

The price "five pounds nineteen shillings and six pence" (five pounds ninety seven and a half new pence in the new rubbishy decimalised era that we live in now ( and there are no half new pences anymore) tells you that this model was on sale prior to 15th February 1971. (Five and a half years before my arrival in London).

Then - a little more complication. UXBRIDGE 33860 is not a post code but a telephone number. It predates the time when we could dial "long distance" numbers directly and would have to be connected by an operator. Remember when telephones had dials and not push buttons?

A famous number being asked for in old films (movies) is Whitehall 1212 (Scotland Yard - the London Police Headquarters).

In those days the Model Shop would only expect local calls. Using the dial, you would select UXB 33860 or 892 33860. The use of this dialling disappeared in the mid 60's.

So pre 1965 - I was still a schoolboy 200 miles away.

I think he wants that aeroplane (addicting) setting in Laughing

chevyiron420 Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:35 pm

Roddie, have you got you babe bee together yet? Babe Bee .049

roddie Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:58 pm

chevyiron420 wrote:Roddie, have you got you babe bee together yet?

no.. It's project #32.. and I've been on #2 for a few months now.. Laughing

Actually.. I bounce from project to project, doing a little bit at a time on various ones. I'm trying to get a business off the ground too.. and that's my #1 priority.

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Roddie's old Babe Bee

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