My recent disaster

ian1954 Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:06 am

I haven't been contributing much recently following a very simple event. The motor on my tiny milling machine went bang!

There I was - machine running - milling a crankcase for a 049 Cox hybrid and the motor went bang with a very large flash. It blew the house fuse and took out the power to the house. A simple flick of a switch and power was back.

Unfortunately - the motor took out the speed controller and the motherboard on my PC. Very expensive!!!

It took me a while to find a replacement Mini ITX motherboard with a parallel port and I couldn't match the original. PCs don't have parallel ports any more!

After many, many hours rebuilding I discover that the motherboard doesn't like Windows XP and there are no USB drivers that match.

However, I decided to check the operation - plugged the parallel port into my controller and it blew my new motherboard! The controller had blown as well.

So - I have built a new controller, another motherboard - this time I have gone to Windows 7 64 bit. The controller now has opto couplers which should reduce the chance of blow back and I have put together a Smoothstepper between the PC and the controller. This no longer uses the PC parallel port but has an Ethernet cable plugged into it and converts the signals to parallel.

This has taken hours and hours. Microsoft no longer support XP, PCs no longer have parallel ports, Mach3 (my controller software) only works with parallel ports and 32bit, new motherboards are designed around Windows 8 or Windows 7 64 bit. I tried Windows 7 32 bit and that didn't work either.

Building and rebuilding has driven me nuts! I now have to retune all my equipment. I am still a few hours away from being operational.

I hadn't realised how much I would miss something. Even though I had backups of the PC they (although I could restore files, settings and the software) proved useless without the original style motherboard. I was forced to upgrade.

**Cribbs74** Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:11 am

That really stinks Ian. Sounds like a huge PITA. Best of luck to you, I bet you'll be up and running in no time!

Ron

**RknRusty** Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:45 pm

I had noticed you'd been a little scarce lately. Someone was mentioning they were surprised you hadn't chipped into one thread about a 1/2A stunter plan.

You remind me how glad I am I don't rely on knowing how to work on computers anymore. About all I remember how to do is turn it on and run a weekly backup. I made a big fat notebook over the years to remind me what do do if it goes blooey. It's titled "In Case of Crash." I've been running Win7-32 since the day it was released some distant October ago. Was it 2009, seems longer. The first mostly stable Windows program ever. Hard to believe we kept gobbling up Microsoft crap like it was candy. Now, if the house catches fire, I'll just grab my Rocketfish drive and run, this week's airplane pictures bedamned!

Glad you're getting back in action Ian.
Rusty

sdjjadk Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:12 pm

Hey Ian,

Sorry to hear about your computer dilemma.
If the software isn't working in Win7 32 bit you can try running it in Compatibility mode.
Also, have you tried a PCI LPT Port card?

Shawn

getback Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:34 pm

Ian , Good too hear from you old man,,,, Sorry to hear all that crap is giveing you a bunch of BS . Sounds like you have gotten it straightened out Smile

So what the heck were ya turning the crank down for anyway!! I know s$$t about computers..... Rusty are you on the pipe AGAIN ! Getback:D Very Happy

roddie Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:45 pm

Man... sorry that happened Ian. Computers are awesome.. until they crash. I have two Windows machines running XP. My digital music recording software/hardware won't work with anything newer.

This is a major pain for you now... but once you get the new system all synched-up.. you'll be better off... and also protected against the damage caused from a back-feed dead-short. The only thing I can equate with what happened in your case.. is a lightning-strike. I've often considered isolating my sensitive electronics completely by using inverters with deep cycle batteries.. especially if I need to boot-up when there's the threat of a thunder storm.

I'm curious about the Cox .049 crankcase.. could it be that your milling a new case to accept a front bearing for the crankshaft? Popcorn

ian1954 Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:32 am

sdjjadk wrote:Hey Ian,

Sorry to hear about your computer dilemma.
If the software isn't working in Win7 32 bit you can try running it in Compatibility mode.
Also, have you tried a PCI LPT Port card?

Shawn

Some of my reasoning is long and involved but the prime software I run to control my machines is Mach3. It will run under Windows 7 32 bit with a parallel port but ............ now here it gets a little iffy ........ new motherboards are geared to 64 bit. There are no drivers available for 32 bit software - Microsofts current release is Windows 8.1. So you can install Win & but find there are no drivers available for the USB ports on the motherboard! No USB means I cannot easily transfer files, deploy USB keyboard or mouse and. more importantly for me, I use a USB
Shuttlepro for manually controlling the machine axes.

Matching operating system and motherboard is a problem.

The case I use is Mini ITX. It has a small motherboard and only one PCIx expansion slot (This is not the standard PCI port) . I use Mini ITX because it is fan less and small. It reduces the chance of swarf being drawn into the PC. So I have my own imposed limitations.

The largest dilemma is that the board blew in the first place. I had not realised how sensitive they are and there is no protection for any form of spiking through a parallel port.

It was also particularly galling that I had two other PCs - and XP laptop and a Win Vista laptop that were incapable of driving my CNC controller (no parallel port).

So I had a choice of deploying a Smoothstepper - Ethernet or USB. I chose Ethernet because you can use a longer cable between the PC and the Smothstepper. The Ethernet Smoothstepper also emulates three parallel ports! It provides another blowout defense for the mother board.

I can now control my equipment with all three machines - both laptops and the newly built PC.

It is not so much the cost of a motherboard but the time it takes to rebuild and my hobby down time that follows!

ian1954 Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:57 am

roddie wrote:Man... sorry that happened Ian. Computers are awesome.. until they crash. I have two Windows machines running XP. My digital music recording software/hardware won't work with anything newer.

This is a major pain for you now... but once you get the new system all synched-up.. you'll be better off... and also protected against the damage caused from a back-feed dead-short. The only thing I can equate with what happened in your case.. is a lightning-strike. I've often considered isolating my sensitive electronics completely by using inverters with deep cycle batteries.. especially if I need to boot-up when there's the threat of a thunder storm.

I'm curious about the Cox .049 crankcase.. could it be that your milling a new case to accept a front bearing for the crankshaft?

Roddie - I am sure you are aware that XP is dead in the water and no longer supported by Microsoft. I set up Windows XP emulation under Windows 7 64 bit and it only worked to a point. Again you still need Windows XP drivers to match the motherboard.

For reasons mentioned above - I went for the "upgrade" route but an alternative was scooping up cheap pre owned equipment. There will be a time though when something will happen and XP will become unusable. Microsoft will not provide a fix.

For a few of us - hardware is not the investment. It is software! It is not just the cost of the software but the time taken to learn and use it. Nothing these days seems to be backwards or forwards compatible.

The crankcase I am milling will not have a bearing (yet! I have not located bearings that fit the 049 bee crankshaft). I have printed this part with the intention of producing castings but decided to machine it. It will be easy to modify it for bearings.

I was in usual mode. I saw your mounts for the postage stamp backplates and thought I would take that a stage further and modify one of my designs.

A beam mounted crankcase for a postage stamp backplate! Very Happy

All parts Cox except for the crankcase!

My recent disaster 049b10

**RknRusty** Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:25 am

getback wrote: ..... Rusty are you on the pipe AGAIN ! Getback:D

On the pipe! If I was, I couldn't talk about it here.

ian1954 Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:32 am

RknRusty wrote:
getback wrote: ..... Rusty are you on the pipe AGAIN ! Getback:D
On the pipe! If I was, I couldn't talk about it here.

Why not?

roddie Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:13 pm

Hi Ian, I hope you're back up and running. I really like your crankcase design!! I'm ashamed to say; that I've never removed a crankshaft from a cox engine... so I don't know what it's O.D. measures at the nose.. I agree that a bearing that size would be tough to find.. even if one existed. Machining the case to accept it.. might also compromise the strength of the stock case in that area. Do you suppose that the case could be bored/reamed to accept an "oilite" bushing to support the crank? This could possibly be done on a drill-press.. and might be an option for repairing old "egged-out" cases??

Your thoughts?

dckrsn Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:00 pm

roddie wrote: Do you suppose that the case could be bored/reamed to accept an "oilite" bushing to support the crank? This could possibly be done on a drill-press.. and might be an option for repairing old "egged-out" cases??
Your thoughts?

I'll poke my nose in, if I may, Roddie.
I bought this case and heat treated crank from
KustomKraftmanship in the early 80's.
Bob
My recent disaster Kk10

ian1954 Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:08 pm

Not quite up and running but not far away now.

I have restored quite a few crankcases - can't bear to thow anything away. So I have the tools to bore, ream and install a brass or phospor bronze bearing and bore and ream that for a crankshaft. The crankshaft is not a standard drill size but I had a "worn" and resharpened reamer that does the job.

Here is an example

My recent disaster Cookin11

dckrsn Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:24 pm

Ian, looking at your beam mount case design, I
wonder how casting it with glass resin (ala the Testors
pipe bomb) would work. Of course that would probably
intail threaded inserts for the case screws and cylinder,
besides the crank bushing. Lots of work, I'm sure.
Never mind.
Embarassed

Bob

**RknRusty** Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:04 pm

ian1954 wrote:
RknRusty wrote:
getback wrote: ..... Rusty are you on the pipe AGAIN ! Getback:D
On the pipe! If I was, I couldn't talk about it here.

Why not?
xBvqYmmvhDY

Oh That pipe. Not the Peace pipe. Lol I think I'd be safer on the latter.
Okay now i'm off to read the rest of the posts in the thread. They look interesting.
Rusty

Edit: It was interesting. You have great ideas and do nice work too.[/quote]

roddie Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:28 pm

dckrsn wrote:
roddie wrote: Do you suppose that the case could be bored/reamed to accept an "oilite" bushing to support the crank? This could possibly be done on a drill-press.. and might be an option for repairing old "egged-out" cases??
Your thoughts?
I'll poke my nose in, if I may, Roddie.
I bought this case and heat treated crank from
KustomKraftmanship in the early 80's.
Bob

Yes Bob.. that's what I'm talking about.. (nice piece BTW..) Did KK install a rear bushing as well? Have you ever measured the Cox .049 crank's O.D.? I'm curious as to what it is. Ian states that it's not a standard drill size... and I don't understand why that would be. Huh...

Ian.. is that dieselized Bee really wiggling?? Shocked

What was the purpose of grooving the nose of the case? Is that an 8 x 4 prop on that engine? The "wiggly" Bee seemed to run much faster than the Tee Dee.. Is this because of the bearings you installed in it? Are the same props being run on both engines in the vid? (sorry for all these questions.. Embarassed

)

dckrsn Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Roddie, I'll check for the bushing and measure
some cranks tomorrow.
sleep

Bob

Ken Cook Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:22 am

I would find it extremely difficult next to impossible to drill and bush a case using a drill press accurately. I've bushed these cases myself . I have a fixture which not only holds case in the jaws, but it also prevents the bushing from protruding into the rear of the case too far. This prevents the bearing from requiring machining on the inside. There would be no guarantee that your drilling the case square as your just following a existing bore which itself could be off due to wear or incorrectly drilled from the start. If one of the angles of the drill bit is even slightly ground from the correct angle, the drill walks. Once the bushing is installed, a reamer is the best choice due to accuracy and consistency . I used a boring bar which took what seemed forever due to the light passes required to prevent the boring bar from flexing due to being so narrow to fit inside. A reamer was purchased later. While there are many different grades of brass it wouldn't be my choice of bearing material as it isn't ever considered a material to be used for such. This of course is just my experience. Ken

roddie Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:03 am

dckrsn wrote:Roddie, I'll check for the bushing and measure
some cranks tomorrow.
Bob

I'd appreciate that Bob.. Thank you.

Ken, yea.. you've got some good points there. I'm sure it's not as easy as I thought. I'd like to buy a small precision machine for home use someday. Ian has made some suggestions to me. I had gotten my "feet wet" in metalwork; the last 3-4 years.. but didn't know enough to earn decent pay. As far as "training" goes... the two companies I'd worked for, didn't want to invest the time in me.

ian1954 Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:32 am

Ken Cook wrote:I would find it extremely difficult next to impossible to drill and bush a case using a drill press accurately. I've bushed these cases myself . I have a fixture which not only holds case in the jaws, but it also prevents the bushing from protruding into the rear of the case too far. This prevents the bearing from requiring machining on the inside. There would be no guarantee that your drilling the case square as your just following a existing bore which itself could be off due to wear or incorrectly drilled from the start. If one of the angles of the drill bit is even slightly ground from the correct angle, the drill walks. Once the bushing is installed, a reamer is the best choice due to accuracy and consistency . I used a boring bar which took what seemed forever due to the light passes required to prevent the boring bar from flexing due to being so narrow to fit inside. A reamer was purchased later. While there are many different grades of brass it wouldn't be my choice of bearing material as it isn't ever considered a material to be used for such. This of course is just my experience. Ken

"Brass" is an alloy and there are many variations. There are quite a few "Brasses" that aren't suitable for machining but quite a few are.

Brass C464 (Naval Brass) is used extensively in marine construction due to its high corrosion resistance to seawater It is known for its good strength, good rigidity/hardness and resistance to wear, fatigue, galling and stress cracking. Also recognized for superior tensile strength, higher yield strength, good elongation, excellent thermal conductivity, good capacity for being cold worked, excellent capacity for being hot formed and excellent soldering and brazing.

Typical Applications: Bushings, Fasteners, Light Bearings, Marine Hardware, Plumbing Fittings, Propeller Shafts, Screw Machine Parts, Seawater Valve Systems, Water Boiler Systems, Welding Rod Bearings .

Here is one you wouldn't use

Brass C260 has been produced as a combination of copper and zinc, it has the highest ductility in the yellow brass series. It is an attractive material with a smooth, yellow brass finish and it can have a polished or brushed (satin) finish. C260 Brass can be used in corrosive enviroments. C260 Brass forms a thin protective patina ( layer ),which, unlike steel and iron, will not rust when exposed to the atmosphere. It has excellent cold workability and is used extensively in the automotive industry, also in the manufacturing of plumbing, hardware, and ammunition components.

Typical Applications:

Air instruments and machines, heat exchangers, pump cylinders, wire screens, pumps, liners, power cylinders, Odometer contacts, heater cores, thermostats, electrical connectors, radiator cores, radiator tube, radiator tanks, Snaps, planters, fireplace screens, etched articles, bird cages, coinage, chain links, pen/pencil, lamps, inserts and clips, syringe parts, watch parts, costume jewelry, buttons, shells – electrical sockets in the automotive industry, also in the manufacturing of plumbing, hardware, and ammunition components. pressure conveyer systems, sound proofing equipment, springs, chain, bead chain

"White Metal" is also easy to form - low meting point and easy to machine
% Sn % Sb % Cu % Pb Applications
93 3.5 3.5 - Light and medium IC engine big end bearings
86 10.5 3.5 - Light and medium IC engine main bearings
80 11 3.0 6 General purpose heavy bearings (lead increases plasticity)
60 10 28.5 1.5 Heavy duty marine engine bearings, electrical machines
40 10 1.5 48.5 Low cost, general purpose, medium duty bearings

Phosphor bronze is excellent but difficult to machine - it is a drill grabber!

ian1954 Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:56 am

roddie wrote:
Ian.. is that dieselized Bee really wiggling?? What was the purpose of grooving the nose of the case? Is that an 8 x 4 prop on that engine? The "wiggly" Bee seemed to run much faster than the Tee Dee.. Is this because of the bearings you installed in it? Are the same props being run on both engines in the vid? (sorry for all these questions.. )

Both props are 7x5. The Bee did wiggle! The mounting was loose.

The TD diesel is an excellent runner and faster than the Bee but I was running it in. A very rich mixture and throttle restriction.

The aim of the bushing was to repair an otherwise useless crankcase. I am not sure that bushing would make a big difference in performance.

The grooving was primarily decoration but the raised portions are concentric to the bore and allowed me to reverse the crankcase and fit it to a collet chuck. The I could confidently machine the inside of the bearing.

getback Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:35 am

I have a couple KB s i want to try and bush sometime as they are NO good the way they are so i have 20.00 to loose.... I think Valve guides for small engines would work, I have a install kit w/ reamers somewhere around here , if the size is correct?? My recent disaster 0s_45_12

OS 45 ABC ON THE PIPE!!! Getback Very Happy

dckrsn Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:54 pm

roddie wrote:
dckrsn wrote:Roddie, I'll check for the bushing and measure
some cranks tomorrow.
Bob

I'd appreciate that Bob.. Thank you.

Ken, yea.. you've got some good points there. I'm sure it's not as easy as I thought. I'd like to buy a small precision machine for home use someday. Ian has made some suggestions to me. I had gotten my "feet wet" in metalwork; the last 3-4 years.. but didn't know enough to earn decent pay. As far as "training" goes... the two companies I'd worked for, didn't want to invest the time in me.

Roddoe,just got home from work and measured 3 random Bee cranks.
.2190in-7/32in.
As for the bushed case, the bushing only extends about 1/4" back from the nose.
I didn't know that. Impossible for me to photograph with my camera.
Bob

crankbndr Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:28 pm

I have one of those KK cases and the bushing stops just short of all the way into the crankcase, there is a grove in the bushing about 1/4" back from the nose like maybe the bushing is two pieces.
No oil grove.

ian1954 Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:12 pm

dckrsn wrote:
Roddoe,just got home from work and measured 3 random Bee cranks.
.2190in-7/32in.
As for the bushed case, the bushing only extends about 1/4" back from the nose.
I didn't know that. Impossible for me to photograph with my camera.
Bob

Unfortunately, 7/32 is .21875. that is a tight fit.

A tight fit is fine for pressing in a bushing.

The next size up is a Number 2 drill - .2210 a very loose fit.

I have just been a checked my maching notes and I use a 5.5 mm drill followed by a 15/64 reamer. 15/64 = .2344 but this has been re sharpened twice and is now .21905. The drill and the reamer are used with plenty of cutting fluid. With cutting fluid the hole probly ends up at .21915.

The drill is pecked - constantly withdrawn to remove swarf.

The hole to be reamed with a machine reamer must be drilled or bored to within 0.012 inch of the finished size so that the machine reamer will only have to remove the cutter bit marks. The reamer should be withdrawn from the hole carefully, turning it in the same direction as when reaming. Never turn a reamer backwards.

There are hand reamers and machine reamers. Never use a hand reamer under power! Must be turned slowly and be within 0.005 inch of the required finished size.

I bush a Bee crankcase the full length but can see nothing wrong with just covering the bearing surface on the crankshaft. Less weight!

I am not sure that the oil groove is necessary.

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