Loss of local hobby shops

fredvon4 Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:40 pm

In the other thread SD had a thought that got me thinking (dangerous) and of course this topic had been beat to death on every hobby forum I know of---as well as other fine topics like "The Death of 1/2a" or "The death of control line combat" etc..

Back to my thought... of course SD has a point (that I tend to agree with)

However I would like to argue that from a consumer point of view we traded local convenient shopping for lower over all cost when mail order came to be.

I hate to admit that after spending hours drooling in a Sears catalog, or Tower Hobbies catalog back in the 70s, and then going to the LHS to find limited selection and remarkably higher prices...I did the math in my head to see if I could save a buck even with shipping....

We ALL have done this. And we ALL at one time or another bought more than we needed just to get the "free shipping".... In fact I upped my order to Sig yesterday to get over $150. The one thing my LHS has but is 60 mile round trip to get is 1/64 ply that I use quite a bit of..Sig 12x24 sheet $13.94...LHS same sheet for the low low price of $21.89 plus state sales tax of 6.25% and Smart car gas (39MPG) about 2 gallons or $6.50

Now my perspective is from Army Brat and then soldier situation of living a lot of years overseas or out on some remote (to town) locations and even a few times in a town that the LHS was mostly railroad or RC only

I know my LHS guy pays for lease, electricity, state taxes, employees etc etc and he does employ another citizen or two to add to the local economy. And I know he does not have the buying power to stock 1000 sheets to get a price break from the supplier

I should feel guilty but damn...disposable income, especially for play things is limited. I don't see myself as cheap.....but I spent a lifetime working and when doing any kind of shopping I fuss in my research to find the best bang for my buck

I know a lot of folks are ticked that Hobbico, Tower and other BIG mail order don't support Control line as we would like.

However, this created a pretty good secondary tier of folks like Larry Driskal (sp?), Doug Galbreath, Brodak, Corehouse Phil Cartier, MinesotaModeler, Hobby club, Stuka Stunt store and about a dozen other places I find stuff. Also there are a few niche folks that do small orders from the garage...my current combat field box came from Lester Hurly and my planes from Jeff Dawson

Back on subject..yep Big Box and mail order killed off MOST brick n mortar mom n pop local stores... On the other hand I find hobby stores in most cities I traveled to before I retired...I don't like Hobby Town but obviously someone does as there are a LOT of them

Oops there I go ... now we can fuss about electric foamy cheap all inclusive RC park fliers that make no noise

DAMMIT!

batjac Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:32 pm

Well, this is a good one from both perspectives. I'd love to have a local hobby shop with decent prices. I buy as much as I can locally when possible/reasonable. I buy wood locally, because the local shop still has a decent selection of wood (although I do dig through the sheets/sticks for the ones with the lower price written on them). And I buy paint/glue/fuel locally. But for models or accessories, not really. If I thought the model prices were decent I would, but I can't stand the attitude of the local hobby shop owner. For example: every kit or major accessory has two stickers. One normal sized with an outrageous price on it, and a big orange Sale sticker with normal retail price on it. I hate when people try to tell you they're giving you a great deal when they're just doing retail. Also, he bought out the only other hobby shop in town, and immediately marked up the prices of the stuff he got cheap by 50-300%. That's right, his sticker on some stuff is 300% of the orginal pen written price that's been marked over. I know he has to make a living, but there's a limit. He also has one of those know-it-all attitudes on modelling, even when I tell him exactly what I want and why. Man! That just irritates the hell those of us who DO know it all! Devil

Of course, the only models I buy are stuff I couldn't build myself, like the eFlight quads and micro helis.

The only place in the area that I've found with any decent C/L accessories is about $10 worth of gas away. So mail order makes more sense, since the shipping is less than gas to buy locally, and the prices are lower than local if I want it relatively quickly. I confess I'm quite the impulse builder, and don't plan out my builds weeks in advance. The shop on the other side of town will special order things if it's from one of their regular suppliers, but the normal turn-around time is about two weeks.

So, yes, part of the decline is in my willingness to buy online. Part is the decline of the hobby. Part is the attitude of the local shops. And part is the decline of selection.

Who is most responsible? We all are. We have met the enemy, and they are us....

The Pogo Mark

**Cribbs74** Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:34 pm

I agree, we did it to ourselves. However, since I have been doing this for only a couple years I am going to put the lions share of the fault on all you older guys lol!

Seriously though this is what bugs me.... I am working on a project and I realize I need a bellcrank. I only want a bellcrank though. I don't need anything else. I run over to the LHS and it doesn't have one obviously so now I have to order one online. Bellcrank costs $5 and then another $10 to ship. So now I am angry that I have to spend more money on stuff I don't want to make the shipping cost worthwhile. Now it's expensive and I have to wait 3-4 days to get it.

I would rather pay $7 for a bellcrank off the shelf and walk away with it right then.

Edit: I rarely speak to shop owners because unless I have some type of EP foam ARF or some gas buggy they will have no clue anyway. I just keep to myself when in LHS and press. Sad really as I wouldn't mind having a friendship, but they don't get what I do.

andrew Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:07 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:
Edit: I rarely speak to shop owners because unless I have some type of EP foam ARF or some gas buggy they will have no clue anyway.

Apparently in this group, I'm one of the lucky few. My LHS (about 20 miles away) is probably the best in a hundred mile radius. The owner, a gentleman in his late sixties, spends most of his day building in the shop itself. Currently, there is a 8' scale Sopwith Pup in the bones on the bench. The day to day operations are generally managed by probably the best heli pilot in the region.

Ed, the owner, is an old school modeler and the shop is actually an outgrowth of his interest in large scale models. To support his building needs, he started buying in bulk and ended up with a shop. Over the years, he has bought out other shops that were closing and now has a complete hobby shop. When the weather is poor, several of us spend our Saturdays there, drinking coffee and swapping lies. It is truly a social gathering place for local modelers. Andy, his associate, can repair helis, cars, planes and most other equipment found in our hobby. They sell and support cars, helis, planes, boats, a full range of glow, gas and electric accessories, RTFs, ARFs, and carry almost any building materials you might need. There is a large dirt track behind the shop where the OF car boys race every other weekend.

Ed will match pricing on the internet, with the exception of super specials and deeply discounted items. If Tower or Horizon sells it, he'll match it and can usually get items in within 48 hours.

So, eat you heart out boys.

andrew

fredvon4 Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:24 am

Andrew, I think a bunch of us remember those kind of shops not only modeling but other things like a good hardware store.. Glad you still have one. Post where it is so in our travels some of us might detour just to see

Ron.... Yes there is the dynamic we all started and contributed to but I imagine some is simple momentum of Business.... Fact is hundreds maybe even thousands of the hobby shops were poorly run. Some obviously had location, customer base, and competent management. Those few still exist today as Andrew can attest.

Consumers always vote with their wallet. What we call big box usually started with simple mail order business and bloomed into bigger and bigger over time. As the poorly run shops went shut the demand got even bigger. Volume buying power, efficient computer controlled picking n shipping made happy customers who bought more n more, capitol was found (public or private) bigger ware housing at lower cost per SqFt and the rest is history

What is surprising was the decline (during the same period) of staple catalog houses like Sears, Woolworth, JC Penny, JC Witney.

It is not always giant big box that kills local ma n pop. When we bought this rural property 20 years ago the local family owned food market, Brooks, was very good and we loved it. But the town grew and a Texas regional decided the population could support a new grocery store: H.E.B (Texas version of Safeway or Food Lion for the east and west coast readers). Took a few year but Brooks market went shut due to the competition and for a time we only had H.E.B. until Walmart put one of the mid sized stores in. Now we have competition again as H.E.B. has staying power. All we really lost as a community was a real good butcher that would cut meat to order in selection and thickness. What we gained was more employment, better over all selection, and much better parking (Brooks was on the town square with very limited parking and bad traffic)

SuperDave Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:15 am

No one seems to had hit on the idea that the whole business dynamic has been transformed in recent years. Judging my the amout of retail space now available the hobby industry is not alone.

Generally if there is a demand in terms of sales it will be met. Therein lies the problem. For those of us who began modeling as children many years ago we must realize the pace and pressures of modern life have taken their toll. Children today have other attractions we must realize, problem is, not all of them are good the central element being gratification and the sooner the better. Patience seems a lost virtue.

And I could ramble on. I'm just thankful I've seen better days but they have faded very rapidly during my lifetime. I am secure in my retirement and have a wonderful and supportive family and circle of friends.

Not all are so blessed.

SD

anm2 Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:12 am

Local hobby shops having been dropping like flies around my area for the last 4 years. We have lost five, including one Hobbytown franchise, if you can believe that. None of them catered to C/L and only two of the remaining ones cater to model aviation. There are still two within a 20 mile radius of my house, and based on the discussions in this forum, I guess I am lucky. PVHC finally closed its doors this year after close to fifty years of operation. I know they tried to sell, but no one was buying. He may have been the last of the mom and pop stores. There is a good link to an Australian C/L forum which discusses the demise of C/L which is somewhat pertinent to this discussion. I have posted it before, but for those who have not read it, it is a good and interesting analysis. I highly recommend that you read it. This will be the last time I post the link. I promise. Andy

http://dkd.net/clmodels/wrong.html

Ken Cook Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:38 pm

Andy, Penn Valley didn't officially close it's doors due to lack of sales. Bill and Jean the owners are well into their 70's and decided to retire, both have dealt with health issues through the years . Our club met their every 1st Thursday of the month for 25+ years. They're still selling on Ebay and basically liquidating all of what items they have left. I noticed last week several brand new vintage Cox engines that sold from the Ebay store. They were open 3 weeks ago on a Saturday. From what I was told most of what it is left on the shelves is very little value to the control line builder. The store still has some items however that may be of interest. Ken

fredvon4 Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:23 pm

There is a LOT of great thoughts in the link from Australia that I agree with

In fact if you read the entire tome near the end is a sobering reality: quoted below

"Well what happened. As stated before the only way we could get to the site to fly was by push bike, which limited distance so the sites ovals etc were all in the suburbs, of course these models made a noise so the old lady complained and the Councils banned the activity.

Youth have now replaced this activity with the skate board, may take skill to ride but no construction or life skills, does not damage when crashed, is purchased (or stolen) ready to ride. And as we all know a lot more nuisance than the model aircraft ever was.

Result is.
Old lady who complained has long since deceased
Her Grandson has No skills, No job, No future and extremely likely to turn to crime.
How did this happen.

Small minded Councillors with no vision satisfied the old ladies complaint, kept her vote and put her grandson on the street."

Old lady can be assumed old men also
Small minded city counsels are every where
But the reality is exactly as stated, young men (OK maybe too gender specific but it is true none the less) always need an energetic OUT DOOR activity or they atrophy mentally and physically

I hate the term Helicopter parents just because they DO exist
I am certain 85% of Ritalin is OVER prescribed to young boys who simply need to run off the excess energy from age 6 to age 15

anm2 Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:06 am

Ken Cook wrote:Andy, Penn Valley didn't officially close it's doors due to lack of sales. Bill and Jean the owners are well into their 70's and decided to retire, both have dealt with health issues through the years . Our club met their every 1st Thursday of the month for 25+ years. They're still selling on Ebay and basically liquidating all of what items they have left. I noticed last week several brand new vintage Cox engines that sold from the Ebay store. They were open 3 weeks ago on a Saturday. From what I was told most of what it is left on the shelves is very little value to the control line builder. The store still has some items however that may be of interest. Ken

Ken,

I was just making a general comment about the demise of Hobby Shops. Bill's sales were always brisk when I visited the store. Unfortunately when owners are retiring, there is no one to step up and take on the business. PVHC is the reason I got back into the hobby. I took my daughter to a swim meet at Villanova five years ago, and decided to check out the local area. I found his shop. I couldn't believe the number of wood kits in that store. At that time he had all kinds of items for C/L and FF. He even had Cox Engines and Models for sale too. The last time I visited the store, they were selling at 50% or 60% off (can't remember which), and the place was picked pretty clean, but I still found cox parts. I spoke to Bill and he told me they had planned to close at the end of Sept, but apparently he has over a Million dollars in merchandise located in several warehouses. You were lucky to have such a great hobby shop so close.

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