What do you use as a Glow Plug Igniter?

SuperDave wrote:

In an electric chair it's the amperage and not the voltage that kills the criminal.


SD

SD, I do not agree. It's the power that kills the criminal:

P = I x U

If one factor is low, he'll stay alive.

BTW in France, the guillotine was used: fast, clean and efficient!

Lieven

But Lieven, amperes is a component of "power" as is voltage.

But the guillotine was awfully messy wasn't it?  "Viv la Revolution!"?

Do you realize the American Revolution came before the French Revolution? (fact)

Regards,  

SD

Dave is right on this one. You can be shocked at 10,000 and less than 10 milliamps and you might be ok, burns, knocked on your rear. And then shocked at 120volts and over 100milliamps and be fatal. 100-200 milliamps is leathal and as low as 10milliamps can kill.
The idea is the amps cross your heart, say in right leg and out left arm or right arm to left arm.

SuperDave wrote:...Hope the above doesn't SHOCK you.     

Think about it.  

BTW, I'm writing from my accumulated knowledge of the principles of electricity rather than reference materials.

SD

SuperDave wrote:

WingingIt74 wrote:So what makes a glow plug glow, volts or amps or both? Would 12v/1A blow a plug?

Both

Yes

SD

Travis, 12v would push a heck of a lot more than 1 amp through a glow plug. 1.5v pushes 3 amps, so 12v would blast enough amperage through it to vaporize it instantly. The current rises proportionally to the voltage through the filament, limited only by its miniscule resistance. Current = volts/resistance. I=E/R(I is amps, E is voltage, R is resistance of the filament). FWIW, watts(power)=IxE or I^2xR. Don't even worry about that.

Electrons, which have a negative charge, are ripped out of their atomic orbits by the force of the applied voltage from the negative pole of the battery causing a miniscule flash of heat, as does any change in atomic state. Then it cascades when those electrons crash into more molecules of the of the conductor and blast their electrons loose into the stream of current, and this generates additional heat. The party rages until the conductor gets so hot that energy levels advance beyond the thermal spectrum and into the visible light spectrum. It levels off when the applied voltage from the negative pole of the battery has liberated as many electrons as it can at that amount of voltage. Increase the voltage and more electrons get ripped loose, but it will come to a point that structural damage to the conductor begins.

Dave, I'm not Googling or referencing anything, I'm drawing on the electronics knowledge I busted my ass to learn in the '70s, and used to earn a living in the '70s through the '00s. Please don't get presumptuous with me, you ain't going to win a [bleep]' match.

Rusty

EDIT: I see the electric chair took off. I'm going to pass on that diversion. There are a zillion ways to compare current flow through a body of resistance, be it a glow plug or a salty criminal.

That's right SD.

I think I didn't say it right, my fault. I'll try again. To me it's definitely the power and not current on its own. If current is very low and tension is high, the criminal will still be killed. However, that won't be because of the current but because of the tension.

Concernng the guillotine, you can see on Youtube a 1915 movie recorded in a prison. It confirms what I said. I don't post a link because it has nothing to do with the subject or with our excellent forum at all.

Lieven

duke.johnson wrote:Dave is right on this one. You can be shocked at 10,000 and less than 10 milliamps and you might be ok, burns, knocked on your rear. And then shocked at 120volts and over 100milliamps and be fatal.  100-200 milliamps is leathal and as low as 10milliamps can kill.
The idea is the amps cross your heart, say in right leg and out left arm or right arm to left arm.

How many times have I been nailed by an automotive spark plug, too many to count. It will make your hair stand up but never felt like it would kill me.

yep...(cranky old guy voice) I remember as a kid. working on my '62 impala (2dr htp) while holding a screwdriver in left hand and touching coil with right, the shock made me smack myself in the mouth with the handle of large screwdriver, gave myself a fat lip!

I had the same car, was my best car ever, bar none. I also had an MGB, it was loosing water but no leaks I could find.
So I pulled the plugs and looked into the cylinder of the little four banger while I hit the starter solenoid on the fender well.
Water shot out of the hole at high speed and knocked me back to the wall, blown head gasket.
Lucky I still have the eye.

[quote="crank

How many times have I been nailed by an automotive spark plug, too many to count. It will make your hair stand up but never felt like it would kill me.[/quote]

Remember automotive spark current first passes through a coil (or similar electronic equivilant) before being sent to the spark plug. This GREATLY intensifies the current delivered.

Ask anyone who has been "zapped" by a lawnmover plug wire.   EEEEOW!  

SD

Crank:

I would think you first noted excessive steam coming from the car's exhaust.

SD
LLFB (Long life the four-banger)

crankbndr wrote:
A GFI only trips hot to ground, you can still get your ass shocked off hot to neutral. probably not electrocuted though.

Um...Neutral is (supposed to be) taken to ground inside the electrical panel, and again at the pole, outside.  In fact neutral IS ground, and ground is an independent ground.  

Of course wiring can be installed improperly...

You can wire an outlet by jumping the ground to neutral and having the hot properly located.  It will test and operate properly.  No, it isn't considered "proper" but is "allowable" in a retrofit situation. (I also recommend you consult an electrician and/or technical papers for your outlet before doing this (GCFI's are meant for this "retrofit" application because they turn off all leads: hot, neutral, and ground))

Yes, I have GFCI's sprouting where one is not "necessary" because I have a retrofit situation in a couple rooms.

Phil

Spark plugs...Heh. I woke up across the garage once from a high energy ignition.

Mark Boesen wrote:yep...(cranky old guy voice) I remember as a kid. working on my '62 impala (2dr htp) while holding a screwdriver in left hand and touching coil with right, the shock made me smack myself in the mouth with the handle of large screwdriver, gave myself a fat lip!

Good that screwdriver was pointing the other way!

Got "tickled" by a neon transformer, working
on a Jacobs Ladder.  
7500v secondary. Arm ached for a few hours.
Glad I'm still here.

dckrsn wrote:Got "tickled" by a neon transformer, working
on a Jacobs Ladder.  
7500v secondary. Arm ached for a few hours.
Glad I'm still here.

That sounds cool.... I have a couple of those.... I need to find plans now, THANKS ALOT  

WingingIt74 wrote:

dckrsn wrote:Got "tickled" by a neon transformer, working
on a Jacobs Ladder.  
7500v secondary. Arm ached for a few hours.
Glad I'm still here.

That sounds cool.... I have a couple of those.... I need to find plans now, THANKS ALOT  

I made one in college. I found a neon sign transformer on the back stairwell of my apartment building. I chopped 8 feet of 1/4" or 3/8" copper ground wire off of the telephone pole in front of the building and made the rabbit ears. Just bent them to shape and screwed them to the terminal bolts. The trick was getting the gaps set between the rabbit ears so the arc would jump the gap at the bottom and walk all the way to the top and pop off without getting stuck or breaking. I gave it to one of my study group friends where we played with it. His power bill jumped more than $100 bucks the next month... in 1976.
 

Rusty

I just built one with my oldest son, Brandon.  It worked, but I think the newer transformer has a fault circuit in it, would get a few good runs then it would stop all together.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151675938525947&l=6931820872824123324

I went to RadioShack today. Picked up two battery holders. Zip tied them together and put some spade connectors on them and my glow clip. I'd say it's gets the job done.



I made two plastic piece from an old credit card to break the connection to keep the batteries good when not in use.

Also they had 2-56 thread screws and nuts in packs of 42 for less than $2. Picked those up to mount my new Tee Dee.

Yeah, I buy those screws sometimes, and a matching box of washers. That's where all of my #2, #4 & #6 washers come from. They're in the same drawer cabinet at my local RS store.

That battery box is the one I wrote about having trouble with. I blamed it on the chrome plated coil springs not having enough conductivity. I couldn't get it to make a plug glow brightly. I made all the crossover wiring out of 14g stranded copper and soldered everything. I hope you have better luck. I had to go back to my beat up old Cox box with the copper leaf spring contacts. If you have that problem, try crumpling some aluminum foil and jam it between the springs and battery electrodes. I didn't do that.

Rusty

RknRusty wrote:Yeah, I buy those screws sometimes, and a matching box of washers. That's where all of my #2, #4 & #6 washers come from. They're in the same drawer cabinet at my local RS store.

That battery box is the one I wrote about having trouble with. I blamed it on the chrome plated coil springs not having enough conductivity. I couldn't get it to make a plug glow brightly. I made all the crossover wiring out of 14g stranded copper and soldered everything. I hope you have better luck. I had to go back to my beat up old Cox box with the copper leaf spring contacts. If you have that problem, try crumpling some aluminum foil and jam it between the springs and battery electrodes. I didn't do that.

Rusty

It makes them glow about the same as the stick I was using. I didn't get a change to try it out yet though. I was going to run my TD today but the temp fix on my carb body was letting air in so I couldn't draw fuel. Trying something else tonight and hopefully tomorrow I can give it a go.

It'll probably work fine.

Just for fun I made a little comparison test today. With the rechargeable NiMh drivers they really have to be absolutely fullt charged to deliver anything near 1.5V as their nominal voltage is 1.2V. So here we have the NiMh at around half charge (measured 1.21V) and the Lipo glow driver that delivers 1.5V at the glow plug, irrespective of the remaining charge in the battery. Note also that the Lipo driver has the spring loaded end that will also stay directly onto the Werlin inserts (and sort of also work on Norvel heads but they don't have the little groove that the Merlin ones have).

First a picture of the two test subjects, then the NiMh and the Lipo, respectively (both taken with the same manual settings on the camera).

Yes, that's why I changed my mind and decided to get a disposable alkaline driver, rather than a rechargeable nicad. But I ended up with a nicad anyway. I expect it will do okay, hopefully.