Re: What do you use as a Glow Plug Igniter?

WingingIt74 Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Well... your a big help Dave.....

**Cribbs74** Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:09 pm

Hey Travis,

I find your experiments interesting. It's been close to 20 yrs since I went through EP and about as long since I stopped caring about it.

Think of it this way, voltage is like electrical pressure as in how much force it takes for current to pass over a difference in potential +/-

Amperage is the rate at which the current flows

Watts is a measurement of power like you already demonstrated.

So... In our world it only takes 1.5V to allow the current to flow across a glow element. Anything more will stress the element. Also as voltage increases it allows more current to flow.

The power panels we use usually are regulated at 1.5V (I think) but we can vary the amperage to allow the rate to increase yet keep the voltage at 1.5V. This is why we crank the amperage up in cold weather or initial starts to keep the wire hot when the current wants to flow less.

Clear as mud right? It makes more sense in my head lol!

Anyway you should never need more than 1.5V, but you could need more amps to keep the wire hot depending on conditions.

Hope that helps, I think maybe Dave is referring to the term "ignitor" which doesn't make sense as it doesn't ignite anything. It is what they are called though Dave, don't ask me why!

Ron

**RknRusty** Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:31 pm

Looks like my NIB eBay $5 dollar free shipping(no tracking) Dyna-Glow clip-on igniter (glow plug ignites the fuel) might have been too good to be true. No package in the mail after 10 days, no response from email. I'll give it a few more days and file a report with eBay, Paypal and my credit card company. Visa should cover it, that's why I use them for online purchases. Twit's name is Rusty too. How could someone named Rusty be a thief!

Rusty

SuperDave Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:36 pm

Ron/Travis:

Think of electricity as water passing through a hose: volts translates to flow and amperage translates into pressure (or the ability to perform work): example a 12 volt car will not start if there is insufficent amperage. A battery may SHOW 12 volts but it takes something like 650 amps to crank the starter. (Diesels even more taking two 12 volt batteries in parallel)

I don't see watts as part of the equasion.

Olhm's Law anyone? Dig out your references Lads. Laughing

SD

**RknRusty** Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:41 pm

SuperDave wrote:Ron/Travis:

Think of electricity as water passing through a hose: volts translates to flow and amperage translates into pressure (or the ability to perform work)

You've got that backwards, Dave. Voltage is pressure, potential, EMF, electromotive force. Current, measured in amps, is electron flow, proportional to the voltage pushing it, and inversely proportional to the resistance of the conductor.

SuperDave Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:52 pm

[quote="RknRusty"]

SuperDave wrote:Ron/Travis:

You've got that backwards, Dave. Voltage is pressure, potential, EMF, electromotive force. Current, measured in amps, is electron flow, proportional to the voltage pushing it, and inversely proportional to the resistance of the conductor.

I'm thinking not "Crusty"

We're refering to DC and not AC applications

SD

WingingIt74 Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:53 pm

So, can too many amps blow a glow plug? I would think so...

**Cribbs74** Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:55 pm

Yes Travis, right around 3amps for our purposes.

**RknRusty** Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:03 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:So, can too many amps blow a glow plug? I would think so...

At any given voltage, the amperage cannot be changed, as it's a direct function of voltage and resistance. That being said, at 1.5v, I think 3 or so amps flow through a glow element. Increasing the voltage will cause the amperage to rise. If you want to find an answer, put an ammeter in series with the glow plug and turn the voltage up, watching the ammeter until it fries. Then you'll know. At least you'll know how much it took for that one. The element metals will vary with age and production tolerances, but I'd guess that they're pretty close. I'd say a cold plug with a thick element could tolerate more current than a thinner hot plug.

Rusty

**Cribbs74** Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:39 pm

Ahh I see now Rusty,

I did state above that as voltage increases so does amperage however, on my power panel reference I was wrong as we see only an amperage reading so what we are actually doing when turning the variable resisitor knob is increasing the voltage, but reading a current display.

My mistake, sorry if I confused anything Travis. I did mention it was 20yrs since I went through Electronic principles. lol!

**RknRusty** Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:54 pm

RknRusty wrote:
SuperDave wrote:Ron/Travis:

Think of electricity as water passing through a hose: volts translates to flow and amperage translates into pressure (or the ability to perform work)
You've got that backwards, Dave. Voltage is pressure, potential, EMF, electromotive force. Current, measured in amps, is electron flow, proportional to the voltage pushing it, and inversely proportional to the resistance of the conductor.

SuperDave wrote:
I'm thinking not "Crusty"

We're refering to DC and not AC applications

SD

Okay, Dave I missed this one before you signed off.
It makes no difference if the current is alternating or direct. In this universe, voltage is the force that moves electrons. Volts don't flow, electrons do. Flowing electrons are called current, measured in amps. Voltage is the force that causes them to move. In a garden hose analogy, if we must, voltage is the pressure that makes water move(it's actually gravity from the elevated reservoir tank). The amount of moving water translates to current.

Let's review; you said voltage flows and current presses. I said voltage presses and current flows. Am I just misunderstanding your syntax?

Cripes voltage is gravity now and electrons are water. Rolling Eyes

I hope the water don't short out the wires!

Rusty, not all that crusty.

Mark Boesen Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:50 pm

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/watcir.html

In a direct current (DC) electrical circuit, the voltage (V in volts) is an expression of the available energy per unit charge which drives the electric current (I in amperes) around a closed circuit. Increasing the resistance (R in ohms) will proportionately decrease the current which may be driven through the circuit by the voltage.

Each quantity and each operational relationship in a battery-operated DC circuit has a direct analog in the water circuit. The nature of the analogies can help develop an understanding of the quantities in basic electric ciruits. In the water circuit, the pressure P drives the water around the closed loop of pipe at a certain volume flowrate F. If the resistance to flow R is increased, then the volume flowrate decreases proportionately. You may click any component or any relationship to explore the the details of the analogy with a DC electric circuit.

**RknRusty** Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:15 am

Cool and sort of creepy how the math is the same across all the sciences. A physicist’s mathematical description of an event can be applied to amazingly accurate descriptions of so many other things that would have otherwise seemed unrelated. A bouncing ball has the same wave shape as the output of a full wave rectifier(aside from decay), a pendulum swinging and a sinusoidal full wave. The same exponents and logarithms everywhere. Lucky for us, or this place would be way too complicated to make sense of.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about glow plug igniters!

roddie Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:31 am

RknRusty wrote:Looks like my NIB eBay $5 dollar free shipping(no tracking) Dyna-Glow clip-on igniter (glow plug ignites the fuel) might have been too good to be true. No package in the mail after 10 days, no response from email. I'll give it a few more days and file a report with eBay, Paypal and my credit card company. Visa should cover it, that's why I use them for online purchases. Twit's name is Rusty too. How could someone named Rusty be a thief!

Rusty

Sorry Rusty... Sad

your glow igniter and thread have been hacked...

**Cribbs74** Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:05 am

Yeah, that does stink. I hope it gets resolved.

**RknRusty** Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:16 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Yeah, that does stink. I hope it gets resolved.

I knew the seller was questionable. He had only sold a couple of things since joining in February. I wouldn't have spent more with him, but I figured he was just getting into business, so I'd throw my $5 his way, and maybe help him get started. Maybe I'm being too impatient. Like I said, a few more days and then I'll start taking action.
I saw one just like it at the HS for $9.99 yesterday.

Rusty

crankbndr Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:37 am

RknRusty wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:Yeah, that does stink. I hope it gets resolved.
I knew the seller was questionable. He had only sold a couple of things since joining in February. I wouldn't have spent more with him, but I figured he was just getting into business, so I'd throw my $5 his way, and maybe help him get started. Maybe I'm being too impatient. Like I said, a few more days and then I'll start taking action.
I saw one just like it at the HS for $9.99 yesterday.

Rusty

You should post the eBay ID, for all to see.[/quote]

**RknRusty** Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:52 am

16krisrod6

He has no items for sale now. At the time I bought the Dyna-Glow, he had a couple of other listings.

Rusty

crankbndr Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:55 am

All the calculating and figuring, amps, volts, watts gives me a brain sneeze. No need to over think it, if this won't start your Cox something is wrong with the engine.
The only problem might be the need for longer leads out in the field.

The dumb Doug

What do you use as a Glow Plug Igniter? - Page 2 Img_2317

What do you use as a Glow Plug Igniter? - Page 2 Img_2317

**RknRusty** Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:06 am

Yep, that's it, it has copper leaf spring contacts and screw tightened wire lugs. You'll get good dependable current flow through that.

I tried a cheap Radio Shack battery box with chrome steel coil spring contacts and even with my soldered copper lamp cord to the clip, it would barely light a plug. Copper is a must, and clean it every time you swap batteries. The copper head clip should be shiny clean too.

SuperDave Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:58 am

RknRusty wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:So, can too many amps blow a glow plug? I would think so...
At any given voltage, the amperage cannot be changed, as it's a direct function of voltage and resistance. That being said, at 1.5v, I think 3 or so amps flow through a glow element. Increasing the voltage will cause the amperage to rise. If you want to find an answer, put an ammeter in series with the glow plug and turn the voltage up, watching the ammeter until it fries. Then you'll know. At least you'll know how much it took for that one. The element metals will vary with age and production tolerances, but I'd guess that they're pretty close. I'd say a cold plug with a thick element could tolerate more current than a thinner hot plug.

Rusty

Yes, Rusty too many amps will most assuredly blow a plug.

In an electric chair it's the amperage and not the voltage that kills the criminal.

A electrical house plug (120 volts) will give you a "buzz" but it won't kill you unless you are very well grounded or have an underlying health condition. Why not?

This is the reason for GFI (Ground Fault Interuptor) curcuitry. Having been "buzzed" several time I know this as a fact.

Hope the above doesn't SHOCK you. lol!

Think about it.

BTW, I'm writing from my accumulated knowledge of the principles of electricity rather than reference materials.

SD

SuperDave Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:09 am

RknRusty wrote:

I tried a cheap Radio Shack battery box with chrome steel coil spring contacts and even with my soldered copper lamp cord to the clip, it would barely light a plug.

Rusty: How many times have I advised that "cheap is is own reward"? - from the collected "Timeless Wisdoms of SuperDave" sleep

SD

SuperDave Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:22 am

Why not just call the darn thing a "glow plug "heater" rather than "igniter" because heating is what it does? This may esape some but not me.

Imagine the uninitiated trying to set fire to a glow plug! Cool

SD

WingingIt74 Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:39 am

So what makes a glow plug glow, volts or amps or both? Would 12v/1A blow a plug?

crankbndr Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:45 am

SuperDave wrote:
RknRusty wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:So, can too many amps blow a glow plug? I would think so...
At any given voltage, the amperage cannot be changed, as it's a direct function of voltage and resistance. That being said, at 1.5v, I think 3 or so amps flow through a glow element. Increasing the voltage will cause the amperage to rise. If you want to find an answer, put an ammeter in series with the glow plug and turn the voltage up, watching the ammeter until it fries. Then you'll know. At least you'll know how much it took for that one. The element metals will vary with age and production tolerances, but I'd guess that they're pretty close. I'd say a cold plug with a thick element could tolerate more current than a thinner hot plug.

Rusty
Yes, Rusty too many amps will most assuredly blow a plug.

In an electric chair it's the amperage and not the voltage that kills the criminal.

A electrical house plug (120 volts) will give you a "buzz" but it won't kill you unless you are very well grounded or have an underlying health condition. Why not?

This is the reason for GFI (Ground Fault Interuptor) curcuitry. Having been "buzzed" several time I know this as a fact.

Hope the above doesn't SHOCK you.

Think about it.

BTW, I'm writing from my accumulated knowledge of the principles of electricity rather than reference materials.

SD

A GFI only trips hot to ground, you can still get your ass shocked off hot to neutral. probably not electrocuted though.

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