"Occupy Wall Street": what's it all about

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:22 pm

Note: Let's keep this discussion OUT of the realm of politcs

Throughout American and across the world this movement is drawing increasing attention. The movement itself seems to lack clear definition yet many people, young and old are joining in based on a general disillusionment with current economic conditions.

The resurgence of the protest movement could well lead to the volitility of the sixites and possibly beyond that as the movement spreads; not a pleasant prospect to ponder. Where and how it might go are anyones guess at this point.

I invite you to share with us your reactions and comments about what is happening.

Anyone?

nitroairplane Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:45 pm

This is a very hard question for me because i have mixed feelings.

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:59 pm

nitroairplane wrote:This is a very hard question for me because i have mixed feelings.

Doesn't everyone? That's what make it a good subject to discuss.

Try this:

"We're not here to take down Wall Street. It's not poor against rich. It's about big money dictating which politicians get elected and what programs get funded," she said.

I believe most everyone would hold with this position but a seriously doubt that it represents the opinion of most protesters.

nitroairplane Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:01 pm

SuperDave wrote:
nitroairplane wrote:This is a very hard question for me because i have mixed feelings.

Doesn't everyone? That's what make it a good subject to discuss.

Try this:

"We're not here to take down Wall Street. It's not poor against rich. It's about big money dictating which politicians get elected and what programs get funded," she said.

I believe most everyone would hold with this position but a seriously that it represents the opinion of most protesters.

Over all I think that it is the big banks and bank owners that got you/us in this mess so i believe their money should be taken away because if you or i did this we would get done for fraud but they sit in their bililion dollar mansion.
With cars and guards etc.

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:27 pm

I DO see it as class warfare pitting the poor against the rich; envy can cause many people to becomre very rightous in their indignation.

In essense: "You've got it ($) and we don't. It's just not fair!" thinking. When was fairness ever a considertion in economics? In communal societies perhaps but they most often fail and for the same reasons.

nitroairplane Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:29 pm

SuperDave wrote:I DO see it as class warfare pitting the poor against the rich; envy can cause many people to becomre very rightous in their indignation.

In essense: "You've got it ($) and we don't. It's just not fair!" thinking. When was fairness ever a considertion in economics? In communal societies perhaps but they most often fail and for the same reasons.

Sort of but i come from a fairly well of background but still feel this way.
I just dont like them being rich off our money and then losing our money and making us worse off.

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:43 pm

i come from a fairly well of background - nitro

OK, don't you ask yourself how that came to be? Someone must have done something to cause it to happen, right? Hard work, education, profession, wise investments (I DON"T need to know how). Someone took some opporunties and made the best of them and those opportunities involved taking risks.

You can probably tell where I'm going with this. Huh...

nitroairplane Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:50 pm

SuperDave wrote:i come from a fairly well of background - nitro

OK, don't you ask yourself how that came to be? Someone must have done something to cause it to happen, right? Hard work, education, profession, wise investments (I DON"T need to know how). Someone took some opporunties and made the best of them and those opportunities involved taking risks.

You can probably tell where I'm going with this.

Yep.
When i say well off i dont mean like mansion and ferrari.
I mean No mortgage,decent house,newish car etc but yeah wise decisions but i dont think i could be super rich it would not suite me. It would be nice to have some things i dont but no matter hoe much one gets he always wants more and if i had the money to have it all i would not to work or dream for it and then life would be boring.
Like How many people who win the lottery are actually happy?
I know that is a very different situation.
but still them getting sssssuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppppppeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr rich off of us and then when they run into rough times they ditch us and run off to switzerland.
No matter how you look at that its wrong.

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:07 pm

Have ever thought those benefits mentioned might have been justly deserved? Why or why not?

nitroairplane Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:41 pm

SuperDave wrote:Have ever thought those benefits mentioned might have been justly deserved? Why or why not?

Yes but still there is excess.
They earned their money they can use it how they wish but I have a problem when the invest my and waste it.
When they mess something up they should do their best to fix it.
Say when you gave me your pictures to post on here imagine i somehow lost them and neither of is could retrieve them.
The fact they are lost is your problem even though it's my fault and my duty to pit right or provide compensation.
Let's those were your only photos and I lost them and then said well I dont care it's not my problem I have my pictures I'm happy.
You would be upset and find it hard to trust people like me with your pictures again.
That is one of the reasons the economy took a sudden plunge people lost trust
So tool their money out of banks and then they had nothing to
Invest and then younknow the rest.

Please excuse bad spelling punctuation and grammar I'm on my cell phone.

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:03 pm

Kinda, sorta

I've obviously drawn you beyond your comfort zone and for that I'm very sorry.

The Wall Street protesters seek economic equality and won't be happy until they receive it. George Orwell's "Animal Farm" is a great book on this theme.

Basically the "animals" rise up and overthrow the ruthless oppressor, Farmer Brown. Once he's gone the animals fall under the sway of the pigs and their leader "Napoleon" who soon becomes even more oppressive than Farmer Brown. "All animals are equal" soon becomes "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others".........

The book ends with a counter-revolution by the animals......................

Well , you're a Brit and so was Orwell. Read his book to the very end and see what happens next. Huh...

I believe the Wall Street protesters will find themselves in the same situation if they succeed.

fit90 Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:40 pm

I like to believe that our (I am a proud American) founding fathers tried to form a government that was truly "of the people, by the people and for the people." I am afraid to say that our current situation is different. I think we now have a government of the political class, by the political class and for the political class and those who fund the political class. I am also afraid that the vast majority of Americans will only complain about the current situation, a very few will actually vote for a non-politician and far, far fewer people will spend the time effort and money to be the non-politician running for any office, local or otherwise.

I am very sorry to bring politics into this so unabashedly. I do not mean to offend.

Bob

SuperDave Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:26 pm

In that case Bob were does the fault lie? With the voters that don't comprehend the "bigger picture' but vote their own self-interest which means an enlargement of government and spending.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take everything you have. - Gerald R. Ford - former US President

"We have met the enemy and they are us." - Pogo (cartoon character)

fit90 Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:29 pm

The fault lies completely with us, the voters. We are rushing to give up personal responsibility and self reliance in favor of a promise of security. We are our own worst enemy.

nitroairplane Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:59 am

SuperDave wrote:Kinda, sorta

I've obviously drawn you beyond your comfort zone and for that I'm very sorry.

The Wall Street protesters seek economic equality and won't be happy until they receive it. George Orwell's "Animal Farm" is a great book on this theme.

Basically the "animals" rise up and overthrow the ruthless oppressor, Farmer Brown. Once he's gone the animals fall under the sway of the pigs and their leader "Napoleon" who soon becomes even more oppressive than Farmer Brown. "All animals are equal" soon becomes "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others".........

The book ends with a counter-revolution by the animals......................

Well , you're a Brit and so was Orwell. Read his book to the very end and see what happens next. I believe the Wall Street protesters will find themselves in the same situation if they succeed.

It is good to go out of ones comfort zone,
I have read animal farm twice and used that exact quote in one of our other off topic conversations.

hlsat Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:15 am

What is happening in Wall Street is the beginning.
In Greece was in Syntagma Square and the end was too much smoke and wood thrashing by police.
Suffering the financial governs all great everywhere.
Always small weak to pay all.
In this case the poor people.

SuperDave Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:26 am

Perhaps "The Bastille" is about to be stormed. Remember the French Revolution?

If not, read up on it and see the parelells to today.

(Interting that the Amercan Revolution preceed the Frech Revolution by only a very few years. (1776 & 1789). Might there have been a connection? Shocked

"But Dave, that was SOO long ago!" Dave sez: "So?"

nitroairplane Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:45 am

SuperDave wrote:Perhaps "The Bastille" is about to be stormed. Remember the French Revolution?

If not, read up on it and see the parelells to today.

(Interting that the Amercan Revolution preceed the Frech Revolution by only a very few years. (1776 & 1789). Might there have been a connection?

"But Dave, that was SOO long ago!" Dave sez: "So?"

Yep, the key to the future is hidden in the past.

SuperDave Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:18 pm

"Hidden is the past" in only broad and very general way as past and present condtions have change tremendously.

Supposedly civilization has "advanced" but underlying are some basic human values that caused it to do. Self-reliance, hard work, creativity, honesty............

But where are those "values" now?

SuperDave Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:41 pm

SuperDave wrote:"Hidden in the past" in only broad and very general way as past and present condtions have change tremendously.

Supposedly civilization has "advanced" but underlying are some basic human values that caused it to do. Self-reliance, hard work, creativity, honesty, accountability................

But where are those "values" now?

SuperDave Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:38 pm

I'd like to call everyone's attention to coverage now being shown of the "Occupy" movent in LA.

Listen to speakers and the crowds.

A sad day for America.

SuperDave Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:53 am

AP now reports that tomorrow's "Occupy" protests will encourage shoppers to partronize small business rather than large corporate outlets like "Wally Mart". Nice in concept to soften "Occupy's" tarnished image probably. Face it "Occupy" is an assault on capitalism.

Shoppers will by the items offered at the lowest price most often and small busiesses are hard pressed to survive in such a market environment. "Occuy" would further have shoppers control their spending and use of credit cards.

How great in times of high unemployment. Who is "Occupy" to advocate reduced spending when they purport to support the working class? When consumers slash their spending workers lose their jobs and go on unemployment compensation thus causing a further drain on the public purse.

So many contradictions from the "Occupy" crowd.......................

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