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Cox Engine of The Month
Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
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Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
Looking around on Matt's website (EX Model Engines) and ran across that he has pre-mixed diesel fuel available?
It is marketed as "General Purpose Diesel Fuel" New Davis Diesel Item.
Matt,
What is the mixture of the fuel?
Is it 33% Ether / 33% kerosine / 34% castor oil?
I noticed it is not for 1/2A engines (higher Ether content with maybe some 2% Amile Nitrate)
Thanks for the information Matt.
sosam117 (Mike)
It is marketed as "General Purpose Diesel Fuel" New Davis Diesel Item.
Matt,
What is the mixture of the fuel?
Is it 33% Ether / 33% kerosine / 34% castor oil?
I noticed it is not for 1/2A engines (higher Ether content with maybe some 2% Amile Nitrate)
Thanks for the information Matt.
sosam117 (Mike)
Last edited by sosam117 on Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fuel mix %)
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1345
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
Anybody knows what is the percentage mixture of EX Model Engines diesel fuel?
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1345
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
The fuel is Davis ABC blend. Davis never published the secret sauce, but this was posted somewhere as the formula he sent to countries he couldn't ship his fuel to. ABC = 32% ether, 2%"booster", 12% castor. balance kerosene. My own tests confirmed this approximate ether content. The Plain(?) fuel contained another 12% of synthetic oil.
For a bit of trivia, ages ago DDD fuel was blended and packaged in Kewanee, IL by Space Age Fuels.
For a bit of trivia, ages ago DDD fuel was blended and packaged in Kewanee, IL by Space Age Fuels.
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 414
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
ffkiwi- Gold Member
- Posts : 398
Join date : 2018-07-10
Location : Wellington, NZ
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Maybe the thinking with a BB engine is that the kero & castor combined is enough oil..?
TD ABUSER- Gold Member
- Posts : 397
Join date : 2020-11-01
Age : 69
Location : Washington
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
TD ABUSER wrote:ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Maybe the thinking with a BB engine is that the kero & castor combined is enough oil..?
No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....
ChrisM
ffkiwi- Gold Member
- Posts : 398
Join date : 2018-07-10
Location : Wellington, NZ
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Hey Chris. Good to hear from you. I've been trying to find out how our resident Kiwis have been doing since the cyclone. Glad you're still with us. We've been well away in Central Otago and the weather was pretty well perfect. Yet to hear from Davenz.
Rod.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
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Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
Oldenginerod wrote:ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Hey Chris. Good to hear from you. I've been trying to find out how our resident Kiwis have been doing since the cyclone. Glad you're still with us. We've been well away in Central Otago and the weather was pretty well perfect. Yet to hear from Davenz.
Rod.
Rod-the cyclone absolutely hammered northland, auckland, coromandel, and the entire east coast area from north of Gisborne right down into lower Wairarapa-with the Hawkes bay region being the hardest hit. Wellington itself (where I am) was unscathed-apart from the odd tree here and there losing a branch or two-and the South Island completely untouched. You also have to take into account that Northland, Auckland and the Coromandel were still recovering from a severe storm two weeks earlier. But the Hawkes Bay region has been devastated -loss of life not high-11 confirmed, with 4 or 5 still missing-with the emphasis on 'missing unaccounted for' rather than 'missing presumed dead'-but the damage is beyond belief-far worse than the Christchurch earthquake-and over large areas-massive damage to roads, rail, water supply, electrical and communications networks-recover will probably take decades...
Not sure where Davenz is/was....I have a feeling he's up north somewhere?....if so might well be affected by one or other of these extreme weather events.
ChrisM
ffkiwi- Gold Member
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Join date : 2018-07-10
Location : Wellington, NZ
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
EXModelEngines wrote:Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.
So Matt,
Would you be able to mix up some 1/2A diesel fuel if I needed it?
My replacement Diesel fuel container with a silver soldered rod across the top of the cap, so I don' have to use pliers on the cap and damage the seal inside the cap.
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1345
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
ffkiwi wrote:
No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....
ChrisM
And yet, F2C racers (diesel team race) were running as little as 10% oil in their engines. 15% was decidedly the maximum and any more was pointless. These were iron/steel engines at the time. The rod big end is always the limiting factor. Later they were running 5% oil castor or synthetic in, I assume, ABC engines. Is there an application tougher than F2C? It's not something I've done myself, but the newsletters had well known names. Today, they talk about 10-12% depending on how much money you have for engines.
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 414
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
gkamysz wrote:ffkiwi wrote:
No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....
ChrisM
And yet, F2C racers (diesel team race) were running as little as 10% oil in their engines. 15% was decidedly the maximum and any more was pointless. These were iron/steel engines at the time. The rod big end is always the limiting factor. Later they were running 5% oil castor or synthetic in, I assume, ABC engines. Is there an application tougher than F2C? It's not something I've done myself, but the newsletters had well known names. Today, they talk about 10-12% depending on how much money you have for engines.
But they weren't using normal engines-and not even normal oils. A747 and some even more exotic types-some went down as low as 7%....and they didn't stay there! That is the key point-and even with the modern engines-with vastly superior fits and metallurgy-its a brave man who goes below your 10-12%. I'd like to see some documentary evidence for your 5% figure claim....
ChrisM
ffkiwi- Gold Member
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Join date : 2018-07-10
Location : Wellington, NZ
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
sosam117 wrote:EXModelEngines wrote:Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.
So Matt,
Would you be able to mix up some 1/2A diesel fuel if I needed it?
My replacement Diesel fuel container with a silver soldered rod across the top of the cap, so I don' have to use pliers on the cap and damage the seal inside the cap.
We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
[/quote]
We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.[/quote]
Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.
We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.[/quote]
Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1345
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?
We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.[/quote]
Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.[/quote]
Thanks for the notice. Once I locate the formulas I'll check on it. The potential issue (always the issue!) is what minimums would we have to take and how long would funds be tied up for fuel to sell.
Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.[/quote]
Thanks for the notice. Once I locate the formulas I'll check on it. The potential issue (always the issue!) is what minimums would we have to take and how long would funds be tied up for fuel to sell.
TD ABUSER- Gold Member
- Posts : 397
Join date : 2020-11-01
Age : 69
Location : Washington
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