OS/Graupner Wankel - It had to happen

Makes sense. I have popped a few of them out in my lifetime. It's a perfect fit.

Just got the seal springs and the OS .30 in the mail.  Now I have to take Wankel #2 all apart again.    

I haven't seen these letters stamped under one of the mounts before, also the RC30 in a cast circle.  May be pretty standard as I don't have than many OS engines.  





Pretty nasty and a bushed crank but it will get the same attention as any of my others.  Berryman's bath and disassembly.  Might even run it before I start swapping things around.

I don't have that particular one, but the symbology appears standard in other photos of the OS 30R/C. Have an NOS .15R/C of the mid 1970's, was one of the most powerful .15 cross scavenged at the time, same BHP as my Enya .19-VI TV, but is lighter.

OS fit and finish made Fox and others look crude in comparison. My Fox .25 R/C, still new in its box, last of the cross scavenge production, looks like something made pre-WW2.

The OS .30 is a beautiful smooth running engine. I never found it to be a powerhouse compared to the same MAX-S .35. Just being a bit smaller, it really is anemic compared to it's big brother. The rods in these had a bad tendency to really egg out. OS had what looked like a coating on the rod and once it wore off, the rod started to wear bad. The screws on this engine can be problematic to locate but they're starting to become more available. I believe the Enya venturi fits the MAX-S if you wanted to do away with the r/c carb. Another problem usually encountered with this engine is the rubber o-ring under the carb, if old, it squashes and it sucks air especially when the engine heats up.I either get a thicker one and compress it or I double the existing. I make certain that whatever is in the case isn't rocking back and forth. The control line version spraybar is one that's difficult to source and it's a special size. If memory serves me correct, it's similar to the OS FP.15-S. The muffler usually is desired more than the engine as it fits the .35S and the .40H. The muffler commands a fairly high dollar amount.

It is a little castored up , just proves it did run prob. last time before putting up (w/o cleaning )

Appears it would be a sweet engine to put on say, a 50" Robin Hood 25, or smaller Ugly Stick for .20 sized engines. Eric you're right, for it to have so much exterior Castor glop meant it was a runner prior to its unglorified retirement. The larger chambered muffler would help it to breath happily expecially if left out in an open breeze, like the uncowled planes I mentioned.

It is also a healthy sign that it was probably treated to the right fuel during its usage history. Now, if it looked like this:

Ken Cook on Sep 17, 2018 wrote:This is the proper head color for a Fox .35.

Then you would know it was truly treated right.

With the parts donor OS .30 sitting in Berrymans I thought I would address the apex seals on the Wankel. Not sure how they come out I reviewed Mikes video part one - disassembly. Somewhere around 1:06 they disappear, so I'm not sure how he removed them, maybe they just fell out, his was a lot cleaner than mine. So with heat and a brass drift I tapped them out far enough to get fingers on them and pull them out. Sitting in 91%.

Thanks Lieven, good reading through that old thread again.

Changed my mind.  I'm going to keep this engine as is.  Cleaned it up with Berryman's and hot  soapy water.  Came out sparkling.  Added a pull-through prop, cranked it and was rewarded with a nice but painful knuckle knock on the kick-back.  Loads of compression that rivals any of my best Enyas.  Doesn't make much sense to make it a partzer.  





Used one of my last .99 cent Fox plugs. (No idle bar)





After an alcohol soak I cleaned up the reliefs for the seals and oiled everything until I can get to it.  I still have to clean the seals with fine steel wool or 1000 grit.  Somehow I wound up with four springs.  




BTW, Berryman's works much better warm.  I wasn't getting much in the 30 degree garage, so I brought the Berrymans in and put it on a warm air vent in the house with the cover on tight.  Built up some pressure that may have helped.  Left it for thirty/40 minutes.  Big difference.  Interior free of any castor goo.

I elected not to remove the head and crank.  Honestly I just did not want to spend the time.  But I kept the engine immersed in the warm Berryman's and rotated the crank CW and CCW for several rev's then rinsed in warm soapy water then cleaned and blew out with compressed air then oiled.  

Yup, got a little pressured air blowout when I popped the top on the Berrymans.

My error on the number of seal springs, there were six not four. Seems they doubled up under the seals. OS provided six springs in their pack too.





While the previous engine went back together quite easy this one was a problem. Three chances to get everything aligned and i could not get this one to work. Only three positions to get the rotor to align and drop onto the fixed gear and none cooperated. Finally removed the fixed gear (under the counter-weight) to install the rotor. Not recomended! That is a tight fit. I had to use a tapping hammer to remove and reinstall it. You better get the witness marks aligned because it isn't going to twist. Lot's of stress there and they used four countersunk machine screws to secure it.

It goes together like a fine Swiss watch mechanism.

That is interesting, I would have never thought. Instead of a squared off edge, the tip seals are notched similar to an oil scraper ring and appear to be directional. I don't know how long these engines last until they need overhaul, but my impression is with such a finely honed tip that will wear down with use, they need serious servicing down the road to replace the tip seals, like a Cox reedie needing overhaul attention replacing the reed valve assembly.

Being simplistic and preferring simplicity over complexity (why I like half-A single channel rudder only flying and two line control line flying), after watching you meticulously work on these Wankel's, let's me know this is not an engine for me.

The 2 cycle Coxes and others aren't near as cantankerous and are easier to manage! My K&B .35 Stallion restoration was a piece of cake in comparison!

Interesting engine George, and a challange to work on.

The springs go between the notches on the seals with the convex side down.  The challange is in the reassembly.  I should have witnessed marked the rotor before I removed it.  It has to align with the fixed gear under the counterweight, the excentric on the crankshaft, the cylinder, and both ends.  I just got real lucky on the other engine.  Only took three trys to get it right.  This one forget it.  But.............I have to remove it again.

WITNESS MARK THE THING BOB! because I'm not happy with the fit of the seals.  I cleaned them (rusty) with fine steel wook backed on 400 grit wet or dry.  But I forgot to do the grooves on the rotor.  JB bore paste and a fine brush will clean them.  I'm not sure of the composition, iron of some sort maybe.  They are magnetic.  

Actually, I'm getting a kick out of doing it, nothing like I have ever seen before.  I have lost the woodruff key.  Tiny thing.  They are available on ebay for $5.31 each plus shipping.  Ten bucks for a 20 cent item.  Looking locally.

Educational toy, but I will attempt to run it.  No doubt the other two will run.

its almost impossible to assemble it incorrectly

and I have to show of my engine

its almost impossible to assemble it incorrectly

How true. You cannot align and assemble all the pieces without having them in the correct position. It's finding that elusive position that is the problem.

Neat car. Your design or commercial? Got a body for it?

Bob

own design but the base is a protech
and no I dont have a body

Sounds like a challenge and learning experience, I hope it pays of in the long run and you get some smoke out of it .

the pull starter was a expencive upgrade
I had to have it custom made

I'm on the last lap with this thing.  I bit the bullet and paid a vendor $5.31 + $4.90 shipping for a 23 cent (True Value stores) Woodruff key.  The shipping aggravates me.......Scotch tape it to a paper, envelope it and apply a fifty cent stamp.  It's not the money...the thing is 1/16th x 3/16.  

I cleaned up the grooves in the rotor and worked the sears a little more as they were still binding.  Nice and smooth now.  Found out that a standard long plug with an idle bar blocks the rotor, substituted a standard long without the bar that works fine.  Looking for compression I slapped it together, made a temporary Woodruff out of a chain and turned it over.  Didn't find much!  Not a true test but I'm not holding out any hope.  

Excuse the poor pictures, the card reader for my Olympus has given up.

Witness marked it this time at the rotor grooves. Slipped back together perfectly.

rsv1cox wrote:I'm on the last lap with this thing.  I bit the bullet and paid a vendor $5.31 + $4.90 shipping for a 23 cent (True Value stores) Woodruff key.  The shipping aggravates me.......Scotch tape it to a paper, envelope it and apply a fifty cent stamp.  It's not the money...the thing is 1/16th x 3/16.  

MAIL CLASS ---------- LETTER/PACKAGE TYPE --------------------PRICE
First-Class Mail ------- Letter (stamped), 1 oz Letter ... ----- $0.60 ($0.57) $1.20 $0.44
Priority Mail ----------- Flat-Rate Envelope (12-½” x 9- ... -- $8.95 $9.25 $9.65 $9.45
Priority Mail Express -- Flat-Rate Envelope Legal Flat- ... ---- $26.95 $27.10 $27.50

You've missed the latest increase in the mailing cost. It's 60 cents not 50 cents.

I purchase the forever stamps to hedge my bets.
Three rolls left and I purchased them when they were 46 cents (circa. 2013)
Postal worker though I was crazy buying 10 rolls of forever stamps for $460.00 in 2013?

And your little Woodruff key will come in a box that's probably 12 inches square and filled with a bunch of those air-filled bags!

One of the problems a business runs into is if they are caught breaking the federal rules could spell more trouble than they are worth. If nothing else, they could lose their lower cost business postal / PB meter rate. The rules are very specifically worded differentiating between letters (paperwork, correspondence) and items (merchandise, things not sheets of paper.) If the manager was your personal friend, yes, he could have taped the part to a card with a kind note on it, send it out through his residence's mail, it would probably slip under the wire.

So, to avoid problems, and also for the employees to know the rules through consistency, things leaving their shipping department are all handled the same. To make it worth your while sometimes means to find something else you need from them as well, and put in a larger order at the same postal cost.

I've run into similar situations regarding say a plumbing part I needed for the house not available locally. Yes, shipping cost seems to be kind of high for that one part. But then I look at what it would cost me to hire a plumber to do the work. For simple stuff, seems to be an overkill, the part plus postage plus my free labor offset hiring someone. So, I bite the bullet and to it myself.

However, I have a sense of satisfaction doing it my way, because I did it right. I don't worry about workmanship issues that occur sometimes when you hire someone and apparently the only one available is that contractor's flunky.

sosam117 wrote:

rsv1cox wrote:I'm on the last lap with this thing.  I bit the bullet and paid a vendor $5.31 + $4.90 shipping for a 23 cent (True Value stores) Woodruff key.  The shipping aggravates me.......Scotch tape it to a paper, envelope it and apply a fifty cent stamp.  It's not the money...the thing is 1/16th x 3/16.  

MAIL CLASS ---------- LETTER/PACKAGE TYPE --------------------PRICE
First-Class Mail ------- Letter (stamped), 1 oz Letter ... ----- $0.60 ($0.57) $1.20 $0.44
Priority Mail ----------- Flat-Rate Envelope (12-½” x 9- ... -- $8.95 $9.25 $9.65 $9.45
Priority Mail Express -- Flat-Rate Envelope Legal Flat- ... ---- $26.95 $27.10 $27.50

You've missed the latest increase in the mailing cost. It's 60 cents not 50 cents.

I purchase the forever stamps to hedge my bets.
Three rolls left and I purchased them when they were 46 cents (circa. 2013)
Postal worker though I was crazy buying 10 rolls of forever stamps for $460.00 in 2013?

And your little Woodruff key will come in a box that's probably 12 inches square and filled with a bunch of those air-filled bags!  

Shame on me.

And I'm a philatelist too. Ok, I'm a stamp collector and have been since my preteens. I figure my collection is worth about a million two $$'s or about $12. Somewhere between the two and on the extreme low side. Mom, relatives, friends, and fellow collectors have contributed through the years. Early-on Mom set me up in the "First Day of Issue" club. Boxes of the things.

Funny story.

I only buy commeratives. Last month I was at the local Post Office looking for stamps in their display window. Having all of them I asked the post mistress if she had any others. I know they keep more in a folder under the counter. She brought out some more. I selected two (picture) and paid for them.



So, I started using one of the sheets. Went through ten with no problems. On the eleventh I got a phone call from my mail carrier.....a good friend.

"Bob you used a post card only stamp on your electric bill mailing and it got kicked back. I put a stamp on it and immediately mailed it back as i didn't want you to suffer a late fee". (I did anyway. $2.40 cent late fee.)

If you look really close on the stamp it says POSTCARD in letters so small I need a magnifying glass to read it.

Each year I give her a box of chocolates for Christmas, left in my mailbox. This year I taped two quarters (to pay her back) and two of those POSTCARD stamps plus a big simley face on the box. She got a kick out of it.

Bottom line, I snuck ten letters with postcard only stamps through the system. Still waiting for the Feds to knock on my door.

rsv1cox wrote:

sosam117 wrote:

rsv1cox wrote:I'm on the last lap with this thing.  I bit the bullet and paid a vendor $5.31 + $4.90 shipping for a 23 cent (True Value stores) Woodruff key.  The shipping aggravates me.......Scotch tape it to a paper, envelope it and apply a fifty cent stamp.  It's not the money...the thing is 1/16th x 3/16.  

MAIL CLASS ---------- LETTER/PACKAGE TYPE --------------------PRICE
First-Class Mail ------- Letter (stamped), 1 oz Letter ... ----- $0.60 ($0.57) $1.20 $0.44
Priority Mail ----------- Flat-Rate Envelope (12-½” x 9- ... -- $8.95 $9.25 $9.65 $9.45
Priority Mail Express -- Flat-Rate Envelope Legal Flat- ... ---- $26.95 $27.10 $27.50

You've missed the latest increase in the mailing cost. It's 60 cents not 50 cents.

I purchase the forever stamps to hedge my bets.
Three rolls left and I purchased them when they were 46 cents (circa. 2013)
Postal worker though I was crazy buying 10 rolls of forever stamps for $460.00 in 2013?

And your little Woodruff key will come in a box that's probably 12 inches square and filled with a bunch of those air-filled bags!  

Shame on me.  

And I'm a philatelist too.  Ok, I'm a stamp collector and have been since my preteens.  I figure my collection is worth about a million two $$'s or about $12.  Somewhere between the two and on the extreme low side.  Mom, relatives, friends, and fellow collectors have contributed through the years.  Early-on Mom set me up in the "First Day of Issue" club.  Boxes of the things.  

Funny story.

I only buy commeratives.  Last month I was at the local Post Office looking for stamps in their display window.  Having all of them I asked the post mistress if she had any others.  I know they keep more in a folder under the counter.  She brought out some more.  I selected two (picture) and paid for them.  



So, I started using one of the sheets.  Went through ten with no problems.  On the eleventh I got a phone call from my mail carrier.....a good friend.  

"Bob you used a post card only stamp on your electric bill mailing and it got kicked back.  I put a stamp on it and immediately mailed it back as i didn't want you to suffer a late fee". (I did anyway. $2.40 cent late fee.)

If you look really close on the stamp it says POSTCARD in letters so small I need a magnifying glass to read it.  

Each year I give her a box of chocolates for Christmas, left in my mailbox.  This year I taped two quarters (to pay her back) and two of those POSTCARD stamps plus a big simley face on the box.  She got a kick out of it.  

Bottom line, I snuck ten letters with postcard only stamps through the system.  Still waiting for the Feds to knock on my door.  

I was wondering why there was a price of 57 cents was for on the list for First-Class mail ---- postcard.
The 44 cents is for presorted mail for selected zip codes.
I did a job one year doing presorted mail for a company. It saves time for the post office as to where they don't have to presort it.
I was a young kid and got paid around $2.00 for an hour presorting and then rode my bike to the post office for delivery about 3 or 4 miles away.
The company was the local Dairy Queen store and presorting their coupon books.