051 Medallion record price?

The only problem I see with that level of bidding and sale

That particular engine is way to easy to counterfit

One reason it went high, IMHO is the seller is very honest and trustworthy. I see his engines go higher often.
I think buyers are confident they are getting the real deal.

Super-reliable seller and the buyer is a very good customer of ours who once bid a TD 010 to over $700

I'm glad that I read the sellers text as I thought $1150.00 and no facing graphics on the box to be unusual and sort of a rip. Learned something.

But I just put this together this morning from my "More ebay grab bag" thread.  Maybe not quite so grand, but it does have the original receipt.  







I guessed as to which Cox engine came in that box.  Maybe not this one as there is another red spring cam in the box.

Thanks for posting that Bernie.  Learned something.

Bob

Here is some good info on the engine:

http://www.theaerosmith.com/catalog_2.html

They say something is only worth what someone will pay for it. Might sell for $1150.00 today, but the next one may only end at $700.

He's got a nice spider box BW listed as well, I wonder what this will end at    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-New-In-Package-Cox-Black-Widow-049-C-L-Combat-Model-Airplane-Engine/152159073399 Not an early one with rubber spinner and stepped cylinder.

now this is a nice one! http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-COX-BLACK-WIDOW-049-IN-HIGHLY-GRAPHIC-CLEAR-COVER-BOX-SLEEVES-/282327203331

This engine is so rare there are two of them online for sale? Or did another owner see what happened to the first motor and say "I want in" for the money?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limited-Edition-Cox-Medallion-051-NFFS-Engine-5076/322399481909?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Db9c456f4d0054d7ea97928364dc9646b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D371840537269

We acquired 8 of those engines, including #1 and #268 and, except for #1, sold them for $695 to $995. #1 is in our collection and we turned down a $2,000 offer.

Seems like a risky investment at that price. Just my layman's opinion.

Can't seem to get my slow computer up to speed so, does anyone know of contests/result/pilots where these engines were used, or were they destined to be shelf-sitters from the start?

I suspect the Medallion .051 is the Cox engine that has the largest percentage of self-sh... I mean shelf sitters of the number produced. It is rare, as it is a Limited production model, but I think it was recognized as a collector item already when it was new and most of them ended up not being run.

rscarawa wrote:This engine is so rare there are two of them online for sale?  Or did another owner see what happened to the first motor and say "I want in" for the money?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limited-Edition-Cox-Medallion-051-NFFS-Engine-5076/322399481909?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Db9c456f4d0054d7ea97928364dc9646b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D371840537269

Not the neatest of scribblings is it. Doesn't live up to Purple Python etc. numbering standards. But, that could be part of the charm.

Bob

KariFS wrote:I suspect the Medallion .051 is the Cox engine that has the largest percentage of self-sh... I mean shelf sitters of the number produced. It is rare, as it is a Limited production model, but I think it was recognized as a collector item already when it was new and most of them ended up not being run.

Thanks,
I'd somehow gotten the idea over the years that they were created for some kind of 'All Star' Free Flight Event...'course I just imagine a lot of stuff too...

Kim wrote:

KariFS wrote:I suspect the Medallion .051 is the Cox engine that has the largest percentage of self-sh... I mean shelf sitters of the number produced. It is rare, as it is a Limited production model, but I think it was recognized as a collector item already when it was new and most of them ended up not being run.

Thanks,
I'd somehow gotten the idea over the years that they were created for some kind of 'All Star' Free Flight Event...'course I just imagine a lot of stuff too...

Kim, I like your new avatar! A running WenMac! WOOT! I don't remember where, but on one of the model plane sites there was a gentleman who was trying to keep track of the engines ( NFFS) by serial number, just to help prevent any imposters from popping up. Boy, whit prices like that I'd be joining the LOSF, League of Silent Flight ...no engine gliders.

Kim wrote:
I'd somehow gotten the idea over the years that they were created for some kind of 'All Star' Free Flight Event...'course I just imagine a lot of stuff too...

Yes, I've read something like that too. Not sure if there ever was an actual "happening" or if the actual amount of participants just was lower than expected. But anyway, from a run of 230 or so engines, there are surprisingly many "known" NIB examples available.

Could also be that being such a highly valued model, it just gets traded a lot.

From what I have read from the internet (which is never wrong) is that it was designed for the very same reason as the TD .051, fly 1/2A and A with a simple engine swap. It was said there was a lot of shady stuff going on with folks swapping TD cylinders on Medallions etc. An easily identifiable engine was supposed to be the cure.

That's what I read. I too believe that since serious money is being made, these engines just keep switching hands. There are probably some fakes out there I imagine.

If you have the money, cool! if not, just put a TD .051 cylinder on your Medallion. Better yet just put a Medallion carb body on a TD. It's a much cheaper option. Just don't do it for a contest!

Ron

We have never come across one for sale where we suspected it being a fake. The cylinder and piston have a different bore that the TD .051 and it would be way too much work to duplicate those.

Bernie...I respectfully disagree...but do acknowledge that you and any other collectors, or discerning in the know buyers, should be aware of the uniqueness of that particular engine

ON the other hand\
it is totally indistinguishable from the outside and very easy, IMO to clone
The box is NOT unique
The documentation is easy to replicate
The hand engraved numbers are easy to replicate
There is NO definitive data base of who exactly got which engines and where EACH is now

But for me, the bottom line is (cuz I don't really collect) this engine was designed as a DESIGNER engine...NOT to be some wonderful super engine. The specific intent was to commemorate a Cox engine for a very few select FF guys/whole group with a unique engine

To date I have held, in my hand, about 7 of these so called National Free Flight Society (NFFS) .051s ----and two of them HOTTED UP by Mr. Galbreath

Back to the initial thought... to the very in the know, and discerning collector...yes! A unique motor!

You are scratching head and wondering, where the hell is Fred going with this?

I am supremely confident that each of my Bernie produced Cox International motors is genuine # 55 out of 100 series

I would NEVER venture a bid on ANY NFFS .051
Considering $600~$1000+ for a exceedingly easy to manipulate description at most auction outlets... I see great potential of 10 or more clones to be passed....just NOT worth the risk

You know a counterfeit US $100 bill is only good as it passes around UNTIL the one clerk with the magic pen

(side story..I am the treasurer of my local VFW...we get stuck wit 3 to 7 fake $100s every month...even with the magic pen on every bill over a $10)

I have a mental bet with self... try to count all the ORIGINAL (actually delivered) NFFS .051s---- against all the reported sales, and total in hands of current owners.....
My skeptical self sez...there are MORE out there than Cox Produced and delivered

Hell guys we had a butt hear for a year trying to sell Cox NFFS parts...BS I said as there are ZERO unique parts on a NFFS medallion Except the cylinder

I am supremely confident that EACH of my Bernie produced Cox International motors #55 are original and one of 100 produced

I would NEVER bid on a NFFS motor as I can easily see how easy they are to replicate and document

OK ----old guy pontificating...carry on with your normally scheduled CEF broad cast...

Grin

We have loosely kept track of the serial numbers offered for sale and don't believe that we have ever seen the same # twice and are fairly confident that there are no fakes out there.

It is such a specialized engine and so expensive that only well-heeled collectors would buy them and those tend to be fairly savvy people who know what to look for.

Once the cylinder/piston is examined a fake would be obvious and, with eBay's and PayPal's new rules that you can send anything back within 6 months, the risk for a seller is big.

You know as I re-read, I think Bernie's response changed my mind as I have to agree..

.ALL of the NFFS .051s I have seen for sale did go for much bigger bucks. The notion that someone may have paid north of $500 for NFFS engine, and got burned, WITHOUT squawking loud about it is irrational.... I had not considered this dynamic in my long winded pontificating above

The counterfeiter would be outed on the first sale

Thank you Bernie for the gentle way you got me to engage all of my brain...

I just think that some people who bought the engine for $30 back in time see an opportunity to trade them for big bucks.

In the past 5 years or so there were probably about two dozen publicly offered for sale, including the 7 or 8 from us; so there were not really that many for sale, just a lot of discussion and awareness because of the high pricing.

Someone who wanted to clone these would presumably not only make one or two because of tooling required but would probably make quite a few and listings for them would have shown up more often with, invariably, the seller being outed long ago.

Having said that, there are a few of the pistons floating around but it would be a lot of work to make corresponding cylinders and all the other items. Again, highly unlikely and the relatively low number of sales would substantiate this.

Furthermore, the serial number range would have to be between 001 and 258 and it would only be a matter of time before the owner of a real one would stumble upon the listing of his own number and, given the popularity of this forum, we would have heard about this.

Again, fakes cannot be entirely ruled out but, in this case, unlikely.

How bout a 100$ cylinder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KUSTOM-KRAFTSMANSHIP-1-2A-ENGINE-PISTON-CYLINDER-FOR-COX-TEE-DEE-049-051-TD-/272522377193?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=32t9%252BQA6EHHVMRcM%252FVKMw%252BQSDdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc