Wood glues and other questions

VIVA La Variety

 or Man does not build with one glue alone!!  My FIL was a woodworking hobbyist. He bought and used white glue by gallon. After he passed, each of my four BIL and myself each ended up with at least a 3/4 gal jug of Elmers or TightBond. I used it as needed on wood repairs around the house until it dried up( about 4 to 5 years later)  into a 1/2 Gallon of Sticky Jello. I have since been collecting a variety of adhesives  to try out. I have not yet found one that will do everything, so I keep buying new ones hoping to find the Holy Grail of Glue. I still love SigMent and have a 1/2 tube. Really felt jealous of the few members here who happened on to a stash of AMBROID a while back.   IF you WaterBoarded me into telling you my Favorite...it would be Tightbond.    Here's a picture of a portion of my adhesive stash:    And  DO NOT ask about Duct Tape!!

Buy your Liquor by the Gallon and your glue by the ounce.

When I started as kid I used celluloid glue, i.e. celluloid film dissolved in aceton. It worked great but it is getting harder and harder to find the right celluloid nowadays...

I think I could easily manage with only three different types of glue (if I had to);
- regular white wood glue
- UHU hart (for better sanding than white glue)
- epoxy

pva and aliphiatic glues have an advantage of breaking down with heat, so steaming or heat gun use will weaken the glue below the wood fiber strength for most woods. (I am unsure of balsa though)

Phil

I do a bit for us (wife) wood working. Mostly simple things like end tables or dining room table. Surprisingly I use more glue in my airplane factory than in the wood shop

Way back when My dad built something for my mom. I helped him in the garage I think around age 5...He used some stinking in a hot pot--- Hide glue if I recall..

Aside from the deterioration of some of these glue products--- another downside of TOO many on hand, is the head scratch trying to DECIDE on what one to try this time....

In the other CA glue thread I did get a bunch of the smallish tubes (various brands..) but still looking for a good thin HOT CA that ZAPS stuff INSTANTLY


Anyway thanks for all your thoughts and opinions

fredvon4 wrote:
In the other CA glue thread I did get a bunch of the smallish tubes (various brands..) but still looking for a good thin HOT CA that ZAPS stuff INSTANTLY

Anyway thanks for all your thoughts and opinions

I've stopped using the CA stuff completely now, I don't like it.
The pot life is rather short, compared to other glue. I use to carry some glue in the field box, but when I finally needed it the glue was too old anyway. Also, I'm not very fond of the bond one gets, the joint has to form correctly the very first time or you're screwed...

The fumes are not healthy either, the doctors told me I had astma like symptom's  after a winters build using the stuff on a very small plane. So that was the final nail in the coffin for me, in term of using CA glue...

I use thin and medium CA, slow set 2-part epoxy and Titebond.

Titebond Company says 2 years shelf life on most of their glues. Interesting since they work long passed that.

Hi from Hawaii.

 I used to build 1/2a planes using the Cox foam wings and the Dirty Bird plans you got free when you purchased a Cox engine.  I recently found a few pairs of wings but the plans had deteriorated.  I was wondering what type of glue to use with these foam wings.  Balsa and spruce was used in the construction if I remember correctly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.  

Agustin
a.k.a. Coxaddict

this ??  https://www.google.com/search?q=Dirty+Bird+plans&tbm=isch&imgil=S0aISQ5wP83zsM%253A%253BBU_fK-T1ws_9XM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Faerofred.com%25252Fdetails.php%25253Fimage_id%2525253D95881&source=iu&pf=m&fir=S0aISQ5wP83zsM%253A%252CBU_fK-T1ws_9XM%252C_&usg=__WeiQ4EG2Vf8TOVGliCQ5SUNMSJo%3D&biw=1600&bih=770&ved=0ahUKEwiT67Sv08jTAhVMLyYKHfHNCfoQyjcINg&ei=wP4DWZMLzN6YAfGbp9AP#imgrc=S0aISQ5wP83zsM:     nice !  
 link ..  https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=95881

My plans indicate the use of a 5 minute epoxy to bond the wing to fuse, root Ribs and wing tips:


the "Hints for using Cox Foam Wing" lists 6 different adhesives plus 2 paints and Coverings! !

Oh, here's the other 3/4 of the plan, Just in case you cant read yours:

Sorry getback, I know it was some kind of bird, a "Butcher Bird" to be exact.  
Thanks Marleysky for the plans. mines has turned to dust decades ago.
I got some poster board from a Radio Shack store closing down.  These poster boards are of high quality as it is backed by thick paper that can be peeled back exposing the foam core.  I plan to build some wings using the "Butcher Bird" technique using this foam. Best thing it was free for the asking. Will post pics if successful

Hey man my bad , there is a guy on the bay that is selling the plans by Larry Renger , but bee sure to read it good if you decide to purchase , i dont think he has the wing construction shown . http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-A-Plans-Cox-Fw-190A-Butcher-Bird-for-Foam-or-Sheet-Balsa-Wing-1975-/152481378782 Would like to see the progress ...

Years ago I used Ambroid for balsa planes. For the most part it worked ok, one of the benefits being that joints were relatively easy to sand. I would preglue joints and add fillets afterwards. Viewing an old plane I built, the fillets have disappeared. There's just something about the smell of Ambroid that is appealing if not necessarily healthy. Later I discovered 5 minute and 2 hour set epoxy. The two hour stuff by LePage worked well although the 5 minute variety was noticeably weaker. I built my old Ski Daddle boat with Weldwood Resourcinal waterproof glue which is still holding strongly after 40+ years.
Most of my creations now are built with medium and thin CA. Good for most things except Guillows kits.

706jim wrote:Years ago I used Ambroid for balsa planes. For the most part it worked ok, one of the benefits being that joints were relatively easy to sand. I would preglue joints and add fillets afterwards. Viewing an old plane I built, the fillets have disappeared. There's just something about the smell of Ambroid that is appealing if not necessarily healthy. Later I discovered 5 minute and 2 hour set epoxy. The two hour stuff by LePage worked well although the 5 minute variety was noticeably weaker. I built my old Ski Daddle boat with Weldwood Resourcinal waterproof glue which is still holding strongly after 40+ years.
Most of my creations now are built with medium and thin CA. Good for most things except Guillows kits.

I have an older full-tube of Ambroid that was manufactured in Taunton, Massachusetts. I believe that Ambroid cement was originally produced in Boston, MA. The Ambroid tubes all state where they were made. Later formulations came from Lowell Mass, New Hampshire and I think; Canada.





The first photo shows some glue-tubes of mine. All my Ambroid was made in Taunton. At some point, the formula changed apparently.. and became thinner and "runny". This may have been a requirement to make it less toxic.. I'm not sure, but most modelers who've used it, don't like it as well as the original formula.

I'd say it's a safe bet; that if you find a tube somewhere that says it was made in Taunton.. and it hasn't hardened in its tube.. it would be the good-stuff.

I recently bought a bottle of Titebond III. I haven't used any yet though.




Krister (SurferKris) mentioned his dislike of using Cyano-Acrylate (CA) glues, because of the allergic-reaction that they can cause. This is a true statement! I do still use CA.. but I take precautions. CA vapors are actually visible.. especially when it "kicks" (sets). I run a small fan on slow-speed to carry the vapors away from my work-area. It's best NOT to use it in a small room without some kind of ventilation. I developed an allergy to CA several years ago while working on a piano. The entire mechanical-action of my old upright-piano could be removed in one piece for maintenance on a bench. The little wooden "jacks" that actuate the hammers, were coming loose due to the old glue-joints drying-out and failing. There are 88 of these particular joints on an upright piano. I reinforced all of them one afternoon. Soon after; I had problems with respiratory-allergies.. and an all-over itchy-skin condition that required taking anti-histamines to control. The respiratory-allergy might have been a coincidental beginning to season-allergies that anyone can get at any time in their life.. but years later I noticed flare-ups soon after non-ventilated CA exposure. That's when I learned about the allergic effects of CA on the respiratory and nervous-systems. I'm careful now.. even with slight CA use; to provide some air-movement when working with it.

Good ventilation is VERY important when working with any chemical compounds. They may not affect you "now".. but could in the future. Certain chemical-exposures will NEVER leave your body. My wife gets severe migraine-headaches that are triggered by strong odors. Almost any aromatic-solvent will bring one on. I can't use any spray-oils (WD-40, Silicone-lube) "Plastic-Wood" filler.. or any thinners for oil-based paints in the house.

Side excursions accepted -----and for what it worth to any CEF member....Hi-Jacking any of my threads is OK -=-= and highly encouraged...=-=- seriously...grin (;>

BUT !!!!----it makes it hard for some one "searching" to find cool stuff about some neat o model buried in a glue thread

As we see from my initial post: I use and store a LOT of different glues

True, REAL, 1950/60/70s Ambroid is no longer to be found... The Canadian, selling small tubes for High Bucks, is a variation of AMBROID that has the same smell and basic adhesive --- but in a MUCH more runny mixture.... I have one empty tube here that I NEVER squeezed... Just open cap and tip to pour into joint

Sig-Ment is a bit more viscous and what I use a LOT.

In fact, the few times a year I order something I need fro m SigMfg...one tube of Sig-Ment is always added to the order
I do have, and use, some of the small tube Testor's Green and Brown tubes

I mostly use CA to tack things in place and then other glues for the entire joint

And as an aside... I tend to use bamboo skewers or tooth pick to help align and add some strength to things like rudders or some butt joints
I also have an OCD thing about poking a bizzillion pin pricks in doped / covered sheeting for the glue to gain some tooth....like a finished wing into the fuselage

Hi fredvon4,

I did not intend to highjack your thread. It appeared when I searched for "glue". I got very good information and I'll leave it at that.

Trust me brother...I thoroughly loved the reading and cool model and imagined all sort of fun to play with it

As I said above...hijacking any of my posts is enjoyed and encouraged....

Beats the hell out of login in to find NOTHING new to read or pontificate on...grin

Shucks thats way lot o glue there !! / Quate ;; 
In my adhesives inventory also are:
White Gorilla glue
Testors Green and Brown
Duco
Sigment
New version Ambroid
E6000
Goop
DAP Weldwood contact
Elmer's Rubber glue
3M Super 77
Scotch 77
Various brands thickness CA's
Z-poxy Finishing resin
EZ Lam epoxy resin
5/15/30/90/min epoxies   I just threw out Bob Smith CA  x3  gone bad on me !!

White gorilla is often a pain in the *ahem*. The foaming action can cause much trouble. It is less expanding than the original brown gorilla glue, which is good. The best part about it is it will not attack plastics. It also has a similar density to balsa.

Controlling expansion is key. I have had excellent results with using multiple layers of blue masking tape especially when I had to fix a sanding oops in a leading edge. I formed a cavity by pulling the tape tight to make a straight contour with the surrounding edge and estimated 1/3 fill with the white gorilla glue liquid. The following day I removed the tape to a repaired edge that needed practically zero work before paint. After paint I cannot see the original damage.

Phil

I am wondering what sort of gluing makes a model most survivable and most repairable.  On one hand it seems that more rigidity resists buckling under compression.  On the other hand, maybe the transition between very rigid CA and softer balsa is a weak point, and maybe a flexible joint helps to absorb energy in a crash. And maybe it is easier to repair and lighter after repair if the joint fails instead of the wood.

I once read a book, written in the 1930s, about wood as an aircraft material, but the questions were different with the glues they had then.  It said something like "Fuselage sides should be riveted as well as glued.  The rivets don't add much strength, but the strongest glues are not waterproof, and they will hold it while the glue dries after it is flown in the rain."

A Pop up on  my Facebook ( I hate pop ups) gives a link to this guys test and results on many of the same glues we use in model aircraft construction vs his wood working business. There are attached charts and results to review or just watch the U tube video.  My only take away was that Gorilla glue is not good for gap filling. Epoxy for structure strength & fuel proofing and tight bond for balsa to balsa joints

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/the-great-glue-test-wood-by-wright