Brexit

fredvon4 wrote:Over the years I have insulated myself from most news and world events...was not aware Great Britten had anything to do with the EU. Thought they kept the Sterling Pound and was oblivious to any other involvement

KariFS wrote:


1. The whole referendum was caused by Cameron's hunger for power, and most of the leave-lobby was probably motivated by another power-hungry bunch (you know that mayor fellow that looks like D Trump's long lost twin brother).

The referendum was an event that has been looming for over 15 years. It was included in the previous two election manifestos but sidelined - Cameron didn't have much of a choice but to call the referendum. It is fair to say that he was a Eurosceptic but believed that we could change the EU from within. He failed with the negotiations to change the EU and lit the blue touch paper for Brexit.

Boris Johnson is a colourful personality but only joined the leave campaign following the failure by Cameron to secure the UK's wishes. He was then in the prestigious position of Mayor of London. To resign as Mayor and join the leave campaign and oppose the government was a major event in his life with his career on the line. Whether I like him or not, he is to be admire for following his beliefs.


2. Most of the folks who voted for "leave" are old and/or not very educated. That's according to surveys, reported by media all over. Many of them did not know what they very voting about.

I voted for leave along with my friends and colleagues who are over sixty. All university graduates with professional qualifications and many years of experience. We have the benefit of knowing what life was like before the EU and seeing the destruction of the British culture. The under 25's know no different and don't seem to grasp that at that age - we were home owners, had very well paid jobs and people still queued in a very orderly fashion. Politeness was paramount and pensions with a pleasant retirement were guaranteed. Not any more!

I am over 60 - have two degrees, several accountancy qualifications and more IT qualifications than you could shake a stick at! (most of these are out of date though!). I would never disrespect anyone because of their age or because they are not academically gifted. At over sixty, they have a wealth of experience and know what matters to them and it is not the EU.

When I came to London- it took a few small sacrifices to get on the housing ladder. I eventually (30 years ago) bought my present home for £130,000 with a mortgage of £80,000. Easily affordable for me at that time. The lack of housing and population increase has seen house on my street reach £1.3 million! How is anyone with a young family going to be able to afford that? Rents for similar properties reach £5,000 per month.

Under 25's have know concept of the future and, to me, live in a virtual world. There is a divide - they have no respect for the elderly and I have seen a gradual decline in community spirit. Most of my younger neighbours don't even respond to a "Good Morning" - just walk around with there ears plugged up staring at a handheld device. Would I want one of these deciding my future direction (what is left of it)?

3. UK never was a part of the Schengen area, so no one enters freely, everyone goes through passport control. So the problem with illegal immigrants had nothing to do with EU as such. Eastern European workers of course are a different matter.

Illegal immigrants are not seen as the issue. It is the immigrants that are or will be legalised by the EU and the flood of legal EU immigrants that have stretched our services and worn out the "Welcome Mat".

Quite naturally - our "uneducated" see the influx of even "less educated" as a threat. Business loves "cheap" labour. We have a "minimum" wage of £6.70 an hour - say £240 per week, £12,480 per year. This is subject to tax and National Insurance but would yield around £1,000 per month. Our cost of living is very high and rent for a single person would take up half of that. I left home at the ripe old age of 17 to go to University and never returned (except for visits) - it is not unusual now for 30+ year old's to still be living with their parents. The younger generation don't seem to be able to relate low wages and high rents with immigration.

Most of our immigrants are very hard working and nice people, I have met lots of very friendly Polish chaps but there has to be a limit. The recent influxes from EU adoptions are unacceptable. We are experiencing a net increase of 330,000 a year. Where do we put everybody and maintain our services?



4. The "leave" bunch will have hard time figuring out who to blame for all the problems when the EU can't be blamed anymore. Something along the lines of the old saying about eating the cake and keeping it too, like the folks (reportedly) in Cornwall area:

Britain has been through desperate times and survived. Two world wars and although that is an inflammatory topic in the EU, most people aren't aware that we were bankrupt after the 2nd World War. The war ended and all our production was geared to the war effort. We had lost thousands of men - our cities were in ruins and our industries worn out.

We had to borrow money and the US and Canada kindly obliged.

The U.S. didn't seem to realize that Britain was bankrupt", and that the loan was "denounced in the House of Lords, but in the end the country had no choice." America offered $US 3.75bn (US$57 billion in 2016) and Canada contributed another US$1.19 bn (US$16 billion in 2016), both at the rate of 2% annual interest. The total amount repaid, including interest, was $7.5bn (£3.8bn) to the US and US$2 bn (£1bn) to Canada.[9][10]

The loan was made subject to conditions, the most damaging of which was the convertibility of sterling. Though not the intention, the effect of convertibility was to worsen British post-war economic problems. International sterling balances became convertible one year after the loan was ratified, on 15 July 1947. Within a month, nations with sterling balances (e.g. pounds which they had earned from buying British exports, and which they were now permitted to sell to Britain in exchange for dollars) had drawn almost a billion dollars from British dollar reserves, forcing the British government to suspend convertibility and to begin immediate drastic cuts in domestic and overseas expenditure. The rapid loss of dollar reserves also highlighted the weakness of sterling, which was duly devalued in 1949 from $4.02 to $2.80.

The last payment was made on 29 December 2006 for the sum of about $83m (£45.5m), the 29th being the last working day of the year. The final payment was actually six years late, the British Government having suspended payments due in the years 1956, 1957, 1964, 1965, 1968 and 1976 because the exchange rates were seen as impractical. After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary to the Treasury formally thanked the US for its wartime support.

We are good for our debts unlike some EU members!

The funding that Cornwall receives is £60 million per year - last year our contribution to the EU was £10 billion!


I am not saying that EU as it now stands is the ideal system, they should change back towards the old system that was more like an economic community, free trade area and customs co-operation. Now that they meddle with everything and produce mostly just paper waste, it is nothing but a drag. But maybe brexit is what was needed to make EU better too. So far the three big ones (UK, Germany and France) have had hard time agreeing about most things, and being the 3 largest economies in the area they have pretty much run the show. A lot of things have gone the way the UK wanted.

Personally, I think referendums are suitable for determining who will represent the country in the Eurovision along contest and who will get to the next round on X-Factor but for not much else.

We are living some interesting times, the economies of both the UK and the EU will dive, but hopefully not crash before a new rise.

Changing from the EEC to the EU was not a good idea and the EU hasn't had the incentive to change direction. Perhaps now they will before further referendums are demanded and the "Union" collapses. The EU knew the vote would be close - it was in their power to change and they didn't. The consequences are astronomic.

The pound has fallen - imports and foreign holidays will be a lot more expensive but that is two way. Any country relying on Britain for tourism or exports will feel the pain until the market gamblers stop playing!

Everyone has the right to their own opinions on this and it is sad that so many divisions have been opened up. But they were always there.