excessive oil consumption

roddie you are basically describing an engine that was NOT broken in properly OR has a set of components that, from new, or later worn, at each end of the clearance spectrum.... think a running clearance designed to be .002~.003 but each part was too small external diameter in a too large/normal bore by several thou or the valve stem diameter was good but the guide was too large a diameter......lots of lost oil in this condition

Same with piston ring diameter and block bore diameters....running clearance when a full operating temp is critical to good oil retention

Inside a engine OIL can be lost a bunch of ways:
Leak to the out side
Past the valve guides and consumed
past the rings and consumed
Lost to evaporation
Lost to high heat burning

additionally the oil can be diluted by fuel and have a faster than normal lose rate

decades ago we rebuilt the motor OR used STP and heavier and heavier oils... I used 70 weight in a Chevy 232 in line 6 motor for an extra 70,000 miles before selling it


My advice...if the cost of adding oil too often is killing you..cut losses and sell the oil eater....these days a rebuild to save the cost of oil is a loosing game unless it is a nostalgia engine in a semi collectible car

A head gasket can cause a plethora of problems and mess with oil levels on some engines. Are you using water as well? Since you are not GAINING oil this may be less than obvious.

Since the problem was first noted after a long drive in one go, the engine was hot and kept hot, so a tiny leak becomes bigger and more obvious.

Phil

Daewoo engine at 50K miles is getting to the end of it's reliability cycle.  The material under the cap does indicate that the cankcase is not breathing properly, or you're not getting it warm enough to get rid of condensation.  Longer drives should fix that.  You're PCV theory may be correct, but wouldn't account for the oil consumption.  I disagree that synthetic oil doesn't cause smoke.  It's not so obvious with a ring problem, but valve guide and crankcase vent proplems will show obvious signs of smoking.  Not may manufacturers have issues with rings these days, even Daewoo.
(This is my job!)

Roddie, my experience with Saturns, S2 sedans, '96, 98,  2000 was they all used oil. No leaks or drips, no oil stains on the undercarriage, oil was burned. 4 cylinder engines ran good, quite peppy, fair mpg, but it was "fill up the oil, check the gas" at every stop. I kept a gallon jug of oil in the trunk. At one point I was using the drain oil from my other vehicle to feed the saturn, after putting in the 2nd transmission, it still ran but used oil faster than any other car I've owned. There was a web site for "saturn fans" the I got a lot of info on the care and feeding of these little disposable cars, it does not seem to be up and running now:
http://saturnfans3.saturnfans.com/~saturnfa/forums/showthread.php?t=176578
It was amazing the info I'd gleaned off that web site. I even removed and reinstalled the automatic transmission in my driveway, based on the information posted by these saturn fans. But from what I recall the oil consumption was a common malady, with no definitive fix. Dealers would replace the valve guide seals while under warranty, but the oil use would only be reduced for a short period of time.

They yellow pasty stuff on the oil fill is moisture, if it looks like a chocolate milkshake it'd be a head gasket, if it's yellow the engine may not be reaching proper operating temp and need a new thermostat, or your making a lot of short runs and not reaching temp.

Gotta love em, they'll only fix it if it still under warranty. Nothing GM has set in my yard since 99 and never will.

Just before my mom's 2012 GMC Equinox shelled its motor out at 50k miles it sucked oil like mad. The timing chain went bad and must have been off time. There were no leaks and the low oil light never went on. I check the oil after filling gas one day and it was 3 quarts low. 75 miles later the engine went bang and when the tech checked the oil level it was another 3 quarts low. GMC replaced the motor under warranty and it has an extended warranty on the motor until 120k miles.

I do not think any manufactures build a decent small motor anymore. All this emissions crap and cycling cylinders off for economy causes more damage than good.

If the oil is not hydrocarbon based, It cannot burn.  It will break down at higher temps.  I'm no engineer but have been using synthetic oils since it first became available (around the  1970s). Usually after an engine overhaul.  At 20,000 miles additives were added to replenish the oil.   If your engine oil remains at its proper level over time, acid and water absorbed into the oil keeps the level up. Additives keeps these in suspension preventing deposits from forming in the engine and allowing contaminants to be carried to the oil filter.   Every engine uses oil to protect the cylinder bore, piston and rings from seizing. Some of it is lost during combustion.  The Chevrolet Vega had an aluminum block and lost oil through the cylinder bore which was too porous.

Well.. my thanks to all of you! I guess I'll just keep a close eye on the oil level. We still have 3 years of payments on it. I've asked my wife to remind me every Sunday.. in case I forget. Every other Sunday it seems that I have to add at least 1/2 a quart. She averages around 200mi./wk. with 180 of those being highway miles. The performance and fuel economy are good.. but the engine is a lot noisier than I remember my 2.3L I4 in my 1990 Ford Tempo being.. I mean valve-train noise. I'm probably not comparing apple to apples though.

Over head cam with timing chain?  Have a timing chain put on it.  It is long and stretchy.  This won't fix the oil anything but it will make the engine much quieter.

Phil

pkrankow wrote:Over head cam with timing chain?  Have a timing chain put on it.  It is long and stretchy.  This won't fix the oil anything but it will make the engine much quieter.

Phil

I suppose it might not be a bad idea to look into. This engine might fall into the category of "clearance-engines" that recommend replacement of the timing "belt" at 50K intervals. If a clearance-engine's timing belt breaks.. or even skips a tooth during operation.. I've heard that it can wipe out the engine. Subaru's "boxer" engines I've heard this about.. but I'm sure it applies to most OHC engines too.

Yes, you should know if your engine is a "Non-interference" or  "interference " and change the timing belt at the recommended interval if it is a interference designed engine.   Spend $750 - $1200 for maintenance or crunch your valves into your pistons and bend the connecting rods.....$2400 to 3200 for remanufactured engine ( based on a vw jetta tdi diesel)

Check your vehicle here: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/List_Of_Interference_Engines

1qt. per 1000-1500 miles is not unacceptable according to car manufactures, its not as good as 3000-4000 miles, but most consider that the lower end of 'acceptable' oil consumption. The yellow gunk is from water vapor, if your not using water, its probably just condensation.

My wife's 2008 VW Passat has the first turbocharger I 've ever owned. It uses oil, and the dealer and every other tech I've asked says turbo engines normally use oil. That might be why the exhaust pipes are smutty.
Rusty

I agree with (Oldengine)Rod that the "mayonnaise" under the "710" cap is probably caused by condensation. Condensation occurs often during wintertime, and for some car models this can even cause freezing of the breathing system. This will cause high oil consumption or even engine failures as gaskets get blown because of the pressure build up. Some makes (I think Citroen and Peugeot) even require a retrofit with an electrically heated breather, and many makes recommend the covering of the front grilles in the wintertime to avoid the engine getting too much cooling. Has the winter been colder or more humid or fluctuating than usual?

The oil consumption could be caused by the oil breaking up. My Saab seems to hold its oil level for the first 3-5000km after oil change, but after that it starts to lose it. I need to add it quite frequently, maybe after 3 or 4 fuel fills. This phenomenom depends on what kind of oil you use, and also some engines break the oil faster than others. Mine is turbocharged so there's a "hot spot" in the circulation, that may cause it. Not sure, I have not had the oil analyzed

Do you fill the oil level all the way to the top mark of the dipstick or even above? The engine will lose excess oil faster. So if the dipstick is a little too short (heh) and you add oil to top mark, as a result there's actually too much oil in the engine. You may try to fill it maybe to the mid-mark only. That is, if the oil amount between min and max marks is about a qt, try adding only a pint and see if the engine will better hold onto that amount.

Oldenginerod wrote:Daewoo engine at 50K miles is getting to the end of it's reliability cycle.  The material under the cap does indicate that the cankcase is not breathing properly, or you're not getting it warm enough to get rid of condensation.  Longer drives should fix that.  You're PCV theory may be correct, but wouldn't account for the oil consumption.  I disagree that synthetic oil doesn't cause smoke.  It's not so obvious with a ring problem, but valve guide and crankcase vent proplems will show obvious signs of smoking.  Not may manufacturers have issues with rings these days, even Daewoo.
(This is my job!)

its a holden capetiva it will have engine life expectancy of a 3 headed pig!

In my experience, regardless of how good the quality of the oil you use is, it is important to ignore the oil change frequency recommended by the manufacturer and do it twice as often. Yes, good quality & synthtic oils helps, but manufacturers are asking way too much of oils these days. Personally I believe it's a marketing ploy to make consumers believe that the servicing costs are going to be lower because it is serviced less frequently. In Australia most manufacturers recommend 15,000km. I serviced a car the other day which recommended 20,000km. This means that, to cover the requirements of all the different makers, I need to keep around 8-9 different engine oils.
Mineral oils vaporize at a relatively low temperature. When oil ages it contains more carbon which is in turn carried around the inside of the engine as vapor. This then condenses and settles on the relatively cooler surfaces, such as inside the rocker cover. This is where the PCV system draws air from. If excessive carbon builds up, the engine cannot effectively purge the contaminated air/vapor causing a "snowball effect". Less fresh air, more carbon. More carbon, less fresh air etc etc. As carbon builds it restricts the ability of the oil to flow back to the sump. The oil which is trapped can then be drawn into the PCV system (if it is open at all) causing oil consumption and generaly lots of smoke.
I would recommend a good engine oil flusher with an oil change a couple of times in quick succession, plus dismantle the PCV hoses & check for blockage. Maybe renew the PCV valve as well.
There is a well documented case of T..ota SUVs fitted with the V6 gasoline engine having severe oil sludging problems. There was a class action in the US. Even here in our warm climate, I have come across several of these vehicles which have missed only one or two services and have completely carboned up the insides of the engine. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big T..ota fan and they're beautiful engines, but they are obviously lacking in their PCV efficiency if it only takes one or two missed services.
Having said all that (and it was a fair bit ) this may not be your problem at all.

With crude at $30 a barrel or less and gas prices at a record lows, motor oil prices have got to follow although I haven't seen it at my local auto stores. I don't know about the consequences of changing back from synthetic lubricants to cheaper regular oils but I would give it a try. A couple of quarts a month is a lot cheaper that an engine rebuild or a parts chase that may not help. As long as it's running good, I say live with it and sleep well at night.

My then new 1959 English Ford Anglia burned a quart a week at 17K miles and it only held three quarts. 2006 Nissan Altima's are notorious for using oil along with most modern Subaru's. Point is some do some don't.

Just to benefit from my experience, I have owned so many cars in my 78 years that I have lost count. The only trouble free cars that I have ever owned have been Hondas. The two I own now were made in the USA.

Best of luck in whatever action that you choose to follow.

Bob

rsv1cox wrote:With crude at $30 a barrel or less and gas prices at a record lows, motor oil prices have got to follow although I haven't seen it at my local auto stores.  I don't know about the consequences of changing back from synthetic lubricants to cheaper regular oils but I would give it a try.  A couple of quarts a month is a lot cheaper that an engine rebuild or a parts chase that may not help.  As long as it's running good, I say live with it and sleep well at night.

My then new 1959 English Ford Anglia burned a quart a week at 17K miles and it only held three quarts.  2006 Nissan Altima's are notorious for using oil along with most modern Subaru's.  Point is some do some don't.

Just to benefit from my experience, I have owned so many cars in my 78 years that I have lost count.  The only trouble free cars that I have ever owned have been Hondas.  The two I own now were made in the USA.  

Best of luck in whatever action that you choose to follow.

Bob

The additives are different between natural and synthetic oils. Don't go back, and if you do, a very short oil change is in order, say 100 miles. This is because the residual additives will attack the fresh oil.

Now, this may have changed some in the last few years, so check the various products involved out carefully.

Phil

Roddie, only you know your economic situation so the decision to eat a loss with 3 years left on a 5 year note needs to focus on if or if not the engine is showing signs of crapping out soon or is simply a normal oil eater

I had a 77 Toyota Corolla 1L 4 banger manual tranny car that I got 14 years and 370,000 miles out of before I gifted it to a starving GI who's car died...he drove it two years before getting back on track and could afford a newer car. That engine used a quart and half between my typical 3 month oil changes. I guess over the life of the car that was a LOT of oil. But I only paid $1300 for it and took it to Germany twice in all the years I owned it

So you need to investigate and see if it is normal for that motor and not a bad condition

I would make certain there is absolutely no gas wash down into the oil...mostly by smell and better yet a oil analysis for a few dollars

Same with coolant in the oil....

if gas in the oil the rings never sealed or are worn beyond long term use

If coolant a gasket has failed

If these show good, and you are certain there is no oil seep/leak to the out side, then the most likely is valve guide clearance and this is usually a non critical oil eat path. In other words it usually does not get worse and worse...I said usually

You might consider checking the re-manufactures/ junk yards in your area for the cost of a take out but good or rebuilt engine...high end engines can be pricey as are some low volume ones, but I have found real reasonable prices sometimes (cheaper than I can rebuild it) on some of the more pedestrian engines like your Daewo

My daughter trashed the Subaru Legacy's engine we gave her by the timing belt break that wiped out the top end. Replacement motor used from a local junk yard was $550 and only had 75k on the clock when it got rear ended

cost me a weekend of work with my son to swap it in and the car went on for a 175,00 mile life before being trade for new car

Maybe try some 10/30, all my v8s call for 5/20 and down here where its hot it almost like water.
I don't drive enough to hit the mileage limit for oil changes its always time. I always use Mobile 1, they have a fairly new "Extended Performance" oil good for 15K, we will see.

All this is close to me as I have a rather expensive John Deere riding Lawnmower that only has 108 hours on it and started leaking oil from the right bank head of the over head cammed Kawasaki 18hp twin

It pukes about a oz or two of 30 weight every time I shut it down
Parts and my time are considerations PLUS the wife bitching about the marked spots on the driveway

I tried to tighten the valve cover but it was already tight and not the leak area...lots of shroud removal work to get to the head bolts

investigation is the head to cylinder area and there are three things (gasket and two seals) that could be the culprits

John Deere is pretty pricey for the parts and I have several gallons of 30 weight on hand so I am simply just adding a bit of oil every week.....for now

Not hearing good things about John Deere lately, my brother got one that was INOP in a few months.