[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:28 pm

I rebuilt a Black Widow for my Li'l Satan. I followed as much as I could of the written recommendations we've gotten a hold of lately. I made an aluminum pickup tube. All the clear plastic ones I buy these days always straighten out and cause crummy fuel flow after a few flights, it would be nice not to have to fix it after every outing. The old ones used to get stiff and stay where you put them but the new ones are useless. I cleaned out the old metal backplate orifices with brake parts cleaner followed by light spray lubricant - oil, not WD40. And made a good fitting silicone tube gasket ring for the venturi - guaranteed never to leak. The piston rod had no slop, so no need to hammer on it, and it fit perfectly, just hanging at the top of the stroke. Blue thread locker in the case screw holes, not a speck of lint anywhere in it. I found my brightest glowing plug and put 3 gaskets in the cylinder so I can run the SIG 35. Making that fuel pickup is a pain without a tube bender, but after wasting 4 inches of tube I got the hang of it and a perfect fit. Definitely need a bender.

After it sat over night for the thread locker to set I mounted it on the test 2x4 and filled it with SIG. It ran like a rag, spitting and hiccuping. I thought maybe it was some lint or some residue in the pickup tube so I ran it again but it was about the same. I filled it with Glowplugboy 24% and lit it. It ran as smooth as possible for 2:10. Sounded good, not as fast as I've ever heard but perfectly smooth. So I took a washer out, leaving two in the cylinder and it was faster. Sounds great. I'm afraid to try one washer, I've blown two plugs like that.

So this little bugger is finicky about fuel. I have yet to run SIG 35 in a Bee with great success. They all like the GPB 24 though. So now it's time for a Li'l Satan expedition. I'm probably going to be recruited for Christmas stuff instead of flying today. Maybe next Sunday.

Jaspur_x Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:44 pm

Good job.
Mine were never finicky about fuel as long as there was decent nitro in it, and I rarely ever rn more that 1 hasket for the glowheads, and always seemed like I got a fair life out of the glowheads.
This all could be my 3k above sae level though Huh...

But at least she runs Beer Cheers

PV Pilot Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:56 pm

I have a couple of these Rusty, they make a nice tight bend. I bought both the 1/8" and 5/32". Roller mandrels on those so they roll the tube, and not just squeeze it around a pivot point.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXE228&P=8#otheritems

I have a ultra spendy Nitrous Oxide systems 1/8" bender, and they dont bend as well as these Dubro's.

Harry Higley makes a nice one, have that as well, but a bit of monkeying around before you can bend anything. Easy to crush the tube if your not very careful.

I reach back for the Dubro one evey time because it's one handed, no extra tools, quick and painless.

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Thanks for the links, PV, I might get one of those for Christmas... and a tachometer, and a real test stand, and a prop balancer, and an air compressor, and a magnifying lamp, and a jeweler's lupe, and a mini drill, and a rotozip, and a 22 caliber pellet gun and a cowboy hat and a pony... [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Santa_smiley-1

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Santa_smiley-1

Jaspur, I've tried the Sig 35 in two of my BWs, earlier builds, and neither ran well on it. They light up with the GPB 24 so I'm not immediately worried about it. Maybe it's because they were raised on it. I'm going to give it one more run on each tonight and bolt it to the little bird. Also, I blew two heads in one day with one washer as I had always run. I was told at RCG you have to use two or they'll blow. Go figure, so I've used two ever since.

So next time I fly, I get to try out this engine on the Satan and my newly refurbished Stuntman23. The Bean is getting a teardown to repair a cracked rib and modified firewall to accept a Medallion... it never ends. I look forward to a day, right, yes a single day, where I can grab any plane I want to and go fly with no fore-work. [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Rofl-1

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Rofl-1

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow 6625053

Cox International Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:29 pm

The old ones used to get stiff and stay where you put them but the new ones are useless

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the pick-up tubes we sell? Reason for asking is that ours are OEM Cox product and, according to Cox, were what they used in their engines.

Bernie
ww.coxinternational.ca

PV Pilot Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:11 pm

RknRusty wrote:Thanks for the links, PV, I might get one of those for Christmas... and a tachometer, and a real test stand, and a prop balancer, and an air compressor, and a magnifying lamp, and a jeweler's lupe, and a mini drill, and a rotozip, and a 22 caliber pellet gun and a cowboy hat and a pony...

I hear ya, Santa's sleigh is not big enough this year.

Skip the magnifying lamp and jeweler's loupe and just get a set of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Illuminated-Multipower-LED-Binohead-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1324256730&sr=8-5

I have this set and they work awesome for micro motors and such,,and the price is nice. 2 flip down stackable power lens's with a swing over loupe, for extra scrutiny.

I use these in combintation with a $5 mini super bright led flashlight, that way you can focus the light right into where you want to see.

Jaspur_x Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:51 pm

[quote="RknRusty"]

So next time I fly, I get to try out this engine on the Satan and my newly refurbished Stuntman23. The Bean is getting a teardown to repair a cracked rib and modified firewall to accept a Medallion... it never ends. I look forward to a day, right, yes a single day, where I can grab any plane I want to and go fly with no fore-work.....................this part, so do I, been wanting that for years,good luck Hand Shake

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:30 pm

Cox International wrote:The old ones used to get stiff and stay where you put them but the new ones are useless

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the pick-up tubes we sell? Reason for asking is that ours are OEM Cox product and, according to Cox, were what they used in their engines.

Bernie
ww.coxinternational.ca

Bernie, I have bought them from both you and Matt. I've had the same trouble lately with both, though the tubes from each of your companies are different. Matt's are wider and more pliable and look just like the ones I've seen in my .049s since I was a kid, however back then I never opened the engines before the tube had hardened, and I never bought new ones to replace them. But I do have some of the old ones that I never threw away to compare with. I'm wondering if maybe since they sat for some time in the engines before being sold, they had already become formed to that shape and didn't spring loose like I'm seeing mine do now. The position I install them in is identical to Cox's recommended C/L stunt position. On the little shelf at 9:00 just above the screw hole. Like this picture:
[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Pickuptube

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Pickuptube

That is an aluminum tube on a fuzzy cell phone, but you et the idea. A plastic tube would look identical, the way I install it.

Cox International's tubes are stiffer and narrower than the ones I'm used to, but functionally they are both the same as far as I can tell. I remember e-mailing you to ask when I first bought them from Xenalook. You must use a spring in the wide soft ones to keep it from kinking at the bend; the narrow ones, not so critical. I was wondering if maybe your lines were for the Pee Wee or something, but I've never had one to compare. I've only had .049s.

PV Pilot wrote:
RknRusty wrote:Thanks for the links, PV, I might get one of those for Christmas... and a tachometer, and a real test stand, and a prop balancer, and an air compressor, and a magnifying lamp, and a jeweler's lupe, and a mini drill, and a rotozip, and a 22 caliber pellet gun and a cowboy hat and a pony...

I hear ya, Santa's sleigh is not big enough this year.

Skip the magnifying lamp and jeweler's loupe and just get a set of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Illuminated-Multipower-LED-Binohead-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1324256730&sr=8-5

I have this set and they work awesome for micro motors and such,,and the price is nice. 2 flip down stackable power lens's with a swing over loupe, for extra scrutiny.

I use these in combintation with a $5 mini super bright led flashlight, that way you can focus the light right into where you want to see.

Hey, that's a great idea. And the best thing is I'll look so cool wearing it!

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 pm

Cox International wrote:The old ones used to get stiff and stay where you put them but the new ones are useless

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the pick-up tubes we sell? Reason for asking is that ours are OEM Cox product and, according to Cox, were what they used in their engines.

Bernie
ww.coxinternational.ca

P.S. I apologize for using the term, "useless" in my post regarding a product that everyone is going to know I bought from you or Matt. I could possibly be doing something wrong. After I posted that, I installed one of those tubes in another engine, but first I formed it to shape with a spring in it and heated it under my halogen work light and let it cool in that position. Maybe that will help me with my problem of them straightening back out. I won't know until I bolt it on and fly it.
Sincerely,
Rusty

PV Pilot Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:41 am

RknRusty wrote:Hey, that's a great idea. And the best thing is I'll look so cool wearing it!

Yes, a truly poindexter vibe going on with those. Wear your camo gloves and it will cross cancel the geek factor.

Jaspur_x Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:10 am

i just got a couple uverhaul kits from Bernie reccently, I will have to check them out;as of yet I have not used them but it`s nice to have a few in stock.

Cox International Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:51 am

The post disappeared Shocked

The issue was the usefulness of the clear fuel tank pickup lines that are being sold by Matt and us.

First, let me emphasize that I am not averse to criticism whatsoever; as long as it's fair and I thought Rusty's was fair. Dissent is what creates change; hence it is good for product innovation and I do encourage dialogue - seriously. A forum that only extols the virtues of Matt and us would be biased and would hence not be in the best interests of a true forum.

Now to the issue itself:

Matt sources the line from a 3rd. party and, knowing Matt's dedication to product quality; it will surely be more than adequate for its purpose.

Our product is from a 1,000' roll we received from Cox. This is the product they used as pickup lines. It is semi-stiff but quite pliable.

I am not sure but suspect the rigidity that Rusty refers to is something that happens over time, especially once submerged in fuel. The reason I say this is, over the weekend, I disassembled about a dozen engines, ranging from Babe Bee, Black Widow, Golden Bee, OQC, Venom, etc.

In each case the tubing was as pliable as the one we sell, leading me to believe the hardening sets in after use.

The spring is an anti-kink device, correct.

One method to keep the tubing in its correct shape is to cut it to “perfect” length and jam the end into one of the bottom webs of the backplate. Or enhance it with a metal tube.

Notwithstanding the above I did make a little discovery. The 049 tubes have a bigger ID in the engines I opened. Although it now took me 3 years to realize this, I guess our tubing is actually a 020 size, also used on the TD 010 and 020.

This would explain why it takes more effort to install them in the 049 engines. However, we have not only sold over 1,000 of the lines; we also use them in our engines and they work quite well.

I’m glad the subject was brought up as I learned something new.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

microflitedude Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:04 pm

The pickup tubes act as last resort filters and do some capillary action, too. Rusty did a cool demo on the springs a while back.

nitroairplane Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:06 pm

Where did it go?
Who deleted it?

Cox International Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:08 pm

Dunno... just can't seem to find it. But then, I may be looking in the wrong place lol. Way too busy on Mondays.

Bernie

nitroairplane Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:09 pm

Cox International wrote:Dunno... just can't seem to find it. But then, I may be looking in the wrong place lol. Way too busy on Mondays.

Bernie

No I looked too.

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:13 pm

nitroairplane wrote:Where did it go?
Who deleted it?

I did. I had felt remorseful about openly calling a part we buy from our supporters "Useless." I sent a message apologizing to Bernie, since he had read it and posted in the thread. Then I chucked it in the trash basket. I'm eaten up with hasty actions getting me in trouble it seems, because right after I posted in the mod forum to restore it so Bernie could answer, I found this already going on. [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Hammerhead

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Hammerhead

nitroairplane Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:14 pm

Solved.

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:14 pm

I clicked "Send to basket."

Cox International Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:18 pm

As before, no one needs to be afraid to bring up issues that are not complimentary to us.

It gives us a chance to address things that we may not be aware of and a chance to respond. Customers that don't complain and just silently disappear are lost customers.

Product issues do occasionally occur - it is how a seller deals with such that makes the difference sunny

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:20 pm

Sorry about the confusion. Any more of that behavior and I'll have to give myself a warning.

Thanks, Bernie.

PV Pilot Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:35 pm

As far as a possible part defect is concerned,, immediately speak up about a problem. Saves money in the long run. Make sure you/we are right before speaking up.

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:58 pm

For those that are wondering about all the fuss, I had posted about my pickup lines always popping out of position after a few flights. I jam them tightly in one of two places; for mostly non-aerobatic flying, I stuff the pointed tip of the tube into the gap just above the lower outboard tank screw boss. For pure stunt, I twist it up a little higher to rest on the little shelf (it's only on the metal backplates) at the 3:00 position so it's exactly at the 1/2 tank level. For the plastic plates, I just leave it right over the screw boss. I use the full length of the tube hoping the tank side will block it from moving, but with no success. After a few flights the tube gets an erection and sticks straight out next to the venturi tube, so when I pull vertical it's nowhere near fuel and the engine dies. And usually crashes.

Last night, I tried bending a tube and heating it under my halogen work light and holding it like that until it cooled. I won't know if that helped until after Christmas when I can get back to flying. On the engine I rebuilt that led to this discussion I mentioned I had made a tube out of aluminum and disrespected the plastic tubes and later regretted casting aspersions.

Anyway, has anyone had this happen, or any ideas on securing it better? I might try tying it down with dacron.

Cox International Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:10 pm

After a few flights the tube gets an erection and sticks straight out

You seriously need to stop adding Viagra to your fuel Wink

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:38 pm

[Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow Laugh-1

The instructions didn't say not to.

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Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow

Re: [Restored & Merged] My freshly rebuilt Black Widow