Why won't my tee 049 run properly

"Clamping" most commonly implies stopping fuel flow entirely as to turn it off.

Personally I believe you as far from the solution as you were in the beginning.

By the way did you ever try FRESH D-size batteries?  That was suggested early-on in the discussion.

SD

mad monky wrote:I also forgot to ask what clamping the fuel tubing means without stoping the fuel flow alltogether.

That's exactly what it means. I use plastic hemostats. A clothespin will work. So will metal hemostats or an electrical alligator clip with some fuel tube over the teeth. This is to keep fuel from flowing into the engine and flooding it before it's cranked.

RknRusty wrote:

mad monky wrote:...Could someone pls tell me how to tune with shims... I am not 100% sure now if the engine is fully broken in because at full rpm it will not hold it steadily so how would I go about this. Also the reserdue didn't have any bits in it so i do think it was just dirt.

The number of head gaskets varies depending on the amount of nitro in the fuel, barometric pressure(and altitude), and temperature. A good starting point is always one, no matter what. Then starting at 20% nitro, add one and again for every 10% increase in nitro. If you're really a performance guy, then it needs more compression or nitro in the hot weather and less in the denser air of cold weather.

mad monky wrote:I do have a cox spanner it dosent fit though and am scared of chewing the back plate up.

They cut a curved notch in the backplate that the wrench slips out of. I usually take a file and square it out, and then just use the backside of the wrench as a blade to turn it, rather than the prongs for the glow head.

mad monky wrote: ...why the glow coil looks thiker on the tee dee head. I am not 100% sure now if the engine is fully broken in because at full rpm it will not hold it steadily so how would I go about this.

The Tee Dee has a higher compression head than the bees, and the combustion chamber has a trumpet shape, rather than the hemi shape of the bee.

As far as the speed drifting, it may very well be an air leak. Most Tee Dee owners remove the clicker spring and slide a piece of fuel tubing over the needle so that it seals against the base, preventing air from leaking around the threads. It also prevents the needle from rotating from vibration.

Also check for hairline cracks in the plastic carb body. It can be cleaned and repaired. We'll jump off that bridge if we get to it.

Speaking of vibration, as Cribbs asked earlier, is your mount solid and tight, not soft wood? If the engine is not secured firmly at all 4 bolts, all sorts of performance problems can plague it.

I wonder if the crankcase is pressure tapped.

That would explain a lot if it is.

I'm very sure there is more to the stoy than 'Monky" has revealed. Whether he's "playing with us" or uninformed is anyone's guess.

I'm outa here and off to build my barrel-back Chris-Craft EP speedboat.

SD

Dave,

I think he is just wanting to get his engine to run right. Nothing more, nothing less.

SuperDave wrote:I'm very sure there is more to the stoy than 'Monky" has revealed.  Whether he's "playing with us" or uninformed is anyone's guess.

I'm outa here and off to build my barrel-back Chris-Craft EP speedboat.

SD

I agree with you Dave.
I gave what I believed to be good and correct information as a Tee Dee user for 45 years, but none of it seemed to be taken on board.
I was outa here a couple of pages back FWIW.

Gentlemen,

Not everyone can be an engine ace out of the gate and I highly doubt we are being "toyed with"

The OP has asked honest questions. We are not a forum that berates folks because they are having troubles.

If the post bothers you or the outcome of your replies doesn't turn out as you expected then feel free not to post.

Let's help the OP get his engine running well for him.

Ron

I worked with technicians for a career, in the field, helping troubleshoot on the phone and training. The different personalities and methods of learning were different for all of them, and my expectations for each one varied accordingly. Everyone communicates differently, some are natural troubleshooters and some are not. We always got it worked out. I drove Fit90 and Andrew and probably Kris nuts getting my first Tee Dee and my first Norvel cranked and running. After I did, the problems seemed like no-brainers and I was off and running. We'll hang in there and get Monky's Tee Dee working if it kills us.
Rusty

Great point Rusty,everyone does communicate differently,theres more to these engines-and planes than you think,I'm learning that everyday.Theres an old saying,I'll put it in my words (when you think you know everything-you know nothing)

Thanks all.

I do think its just i need to clamp the fuel line to stop i flooding when the engine is not running. I did try fresh d battery's and they are much better so thanks for that, i just stayed away from them as i thought it would blow the head. It's mounted on a peace of wood with 4 screws holding it down. When it goes it goes and when its warm it is no troble starting so if i clamp the fuel line as you described the engine souldnt osalate and run backwards because that's now my only problem.

I sware i am not toying with you i am just not expirienced with small engines an so i don't fully understand everything people say. I am also not experienced of forums so am unsure on how to respond in the correct fashion.

Is it possible my engine is over compressed.

Ben.D

It probably just feels like it's over compressed due to the flooding. Three head shims should be enough. If the fuel tank is too high the fuel might just be syphoning into the engine. Have the fuel tank low enough so that the fuel doesn't run into the engine on its own. If it's slightly lower than the needle valve then the engine has to suck the fuel in. It should easily pull the fuel up hill slightly once it fires.   

Oldenginerod

mad monky wrote:Thanks all.

I do think its just i need to clamp the fuel line to stop i flooding when the engine is not running. I did try fresh d battery's and they are much better so thanks for that, i just stayed away from them as i thought it would blow the head. It's mounted on a peace of wood with 4 screws holding it down. When it goes it goes and when its warm it is no troble starting so if i clamp the fuel line as you described the engine souldnt osalate and run backwards because that's now my only problem.

I sware i am not toying with you i am just not expirienced with small engines an so i don't fully understand everything people say. I am also not experienced of forums so am unsure on how to respond in the correct fashion.

Is it possible my engine is over compressed.

Ben.D

Ben' you're trying to learn a lot all at once, the engines and the forum dynamics. Forums are a whole set of new social skills by themselves. Since you cannot easily emote when typing, you leave a lot to chance that people will interpret your thoughts as you've intended. You can add emoticons for laughing, frowning, puzzlement, etc, but it's a weak substitute for voice inflection and facial expression. You get the hang of expressing yourself after a while, but you'll never get everyone. If I give you a number of things to try, it's helpful to me to know how each point helped or hindered your progress. That way I know what direction to go next, or whether to explain more about a previous point. We're glad to have you join our community and help you get it all figured out. It's fun stuff.

Fresh batteries are always best. A pair of D-cells is great, and if if wired in parallel the voltage is still 1.5v, but with twice the capacity to supply current than one. 1.5v will never blow your plug. And these plugs need a lot of capacity, especially when you're having cranking problems and are keeping the plug lit for long periods of time. Like I said the contacts and any wire connections are critical, and are often the source of a weak glow.

It's not over compressed if you have 2 or 3 shims under the head. Refer to my earlier guidelines on adding head gaskets(shims).

Once you get the hang of not flooding it, it will get quite easy to crank. You just have to get your routine down as far as flipping and getting the line unclipped before the prime runs out.

Here's a good procedure:

Make sure the fuel line is full of fuel and clamped off.
When priming, BEFORE connecting the battery, put one or two drops of fuel in the venturi, no more. Then flip the prop a few times to work it in and atomize it. Then prime the exhaust port with a drop of fuel. Only prime it with the piston blocking the ports.

Now connect the battery and flip. As soon as it cranks, release the fuel line clamp. If your needle is set pretty close, it will keep running. If it's oscillating(flooded) clamp the line and wait, sometimes it'll kick off full speed. If it does, then unclamp it. If it runs fast and cuts off, it was set too lean. Clamp the line. Open the needle a a half turn and try again. Try once without priming, but if it won't pop, go ahead and prime again.

Once you find a good cranking position for the needle, write it down and always start there. But, it will vary with different fuels.

Good luck
Rusty

mad monky wrote:Thanks all.

I sware i am not toying with you i am just not expirienced with small engines an so i don't fully understand everything people say. I am also not experienced of forums so am unsure on how to respond in the correct fashion.

Is it possible my engine is over compressed.

Ben.D

Hi Ben, I was writing to you when Rusty posted his message. He has a lot of experience with Tee Dee's. Much is possible when it comes to getting a small engine to run optimally. I am still learning myself. The glowhead (plug) as you know; screws into the top of the cylinder along with a thin Copper ring-type gasket, which seals when tightened. You can experiment with the amount of gaskets that are used. This will vary the compression.

Adding gaskets raises the glowhead slightly.. which lowers compression (the area above the piston when it reaches it uppermost point or top dead center, is increased)

I believe that adding gaskets (lowering compression) helps when using fuel that has a high "Nitro" content. Sometimes as many as 3 or 4 gaskets are used together. It's an easy thing to experiment with.

In any case, it is important that the glowhead seals tightly to the cylinder with it's gasket(s) when tightened. Make sure there's no grit on the mating surfaces. You can clean the thin gaskets using a tissue with rubbing alcohol or a cotton swab, being careful not to bend/crease the gasket(s) during handling. Swab the threads and sealing areas of the cylinder and glowplug too.

Once you get your engine to stay running off the tank's fuel supply and after the battery clip is removed, run a few tanks of fuel through it while adjusting the needle valve slightly... rich to lean and back, taking note of the way the engine runs and sounds. This will help you to get used to the engine's requirements for running it at peak performance. Too lean of a needle setting past optimal, will result in a "sag" which can be heard. This is caused by overheating.. and should be avoided.

Troubleshooting an engine should be done methodically.. in other words; try ONE thing at a time. Use the same fuel that you KNOW is fresh and will run fine in other engines throughout all testing.. and FILTER your fuel too. If you change to a different prop; don't change the amount of head gaskets at the same time... and vice versa. Run a few tanks of fuel through the engine before making another change.. and keep notes on how each change affected the way the engine ran.

Once you get used to tuning your engine by "bench running" as you have been doing, you may want to put it in an airplane and fly it. When that time comes, you'll find that the engine's prop has less resistance when the model starts to fly, as compared to sitting stationary. This is called "unloading" which allows the engine to run faster. This will create a lean condition on it's own.. without adjusting the needle. You will want to launch your model with a more "rich" needle setting because of this. It's better to launch with a rich needle setting for a few reasons. The engine will run slower.. and if you're flying a model for the first time.. this gives you more time to react to it's flying characteristics. A "rich" running engine runs cooler, receives more lubrication.. and again; it "will" lean-out naturally in flight. You can gradually set the needle "leaner" for optimal fuel economy and performance after your used to controlling the model in flight.

I hope this was of some help Ben.

Ok thanks all because my cox tee is now running properly its now much easyer to start from cold with that clamp on the fuel line and when its running its gone  

All i need now is a plane for it,
Any suggestions

Thanks again
Ben.D

Alright, that's cool!
A plane. RC or control line? What's your experience level, I'm guessing beginner?
For C/L, this Li'l Wizard is a pretty good trainer:
http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/1-2-a-series/1-2a-lil-wizard-kit.html
Though the advertisement says 52 foot lines, I think 40' or even a few feet less would be a safer starting point. It'll hold up pretty well in a wreck, and take CA glue to the field in your flight box.

As for RC, I'll leave that for the RC guys to answer.

You may get lots of different opinions. If this thread doesn't generate much response, you should maybe start a new thread... Good trainer for a Tee Dee, or some such title.

Rusty

Ben, Glad you got the TEE Dee running good for you       Thanks to Rusty , Roddie and Ron man these guys have a lot of experience in this field and have always been there for me over the last 1.5 years I have been here , Ben nothing makes us Happier to hear is your having FUN  I HOPE YOU ARE GOING TO PERSUE RUNNING IT SOME MORE to get use to the carteristics of the engine.   I learned a lot from reading these treads with other people having problems , and hearing the input that different people have. 

RknRusty wrote:Alright, that's cool!
A plane. RC or control line? What's your experience level, I'm guessing beginner?
For C/L, this Li'l Wizard is a pretty good trainer:
http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/1-2-a-series/1-2a-lil-wizard-kit.html
Though the advertisement says 52 foot lines, I think 40' or even a few feet less would be a safer starting point. It'll hold up pretty well in a wreck, and take CA glue to the field in your flight box.

As for RC, I'll leave that for the RC guys to answer.

You may get lots of different opinions. If this thread doesn't generate much response, you should maybe start a new thread... Good trainer for a Tee Dee, or some such title.

Rusty

Here in the UK, 1/2A model kits can be difficult to get hold of.

The recommended supplier for Brodak kits in the UK is

PS Aeroproducts
46 Hillside Gardens
Edgware Middx, HA8 8HE United Kingdom
+44 (0)20 8958 6731
+44 (0)20 8958 6731
paul@psaeroproducts.com
www.psaeroproducts.com

Very helpful but more into much larger than 1/2A - If you want a 54" Cardinal and to go electric - then Paul is your man.

but there is also Dens Models

http://www.densmodelsupplies.co.uk/

He has a selection of 1/2A kits - look at the web sites.

If you make a selection then make sure you know what the kit includes. Some include tanks and wheels - some don't.

Very few model shops seem to have much 1/2 A in the UK. Go up to .25 to .40 engines and there is much more choice.

There are also 1/2 kit available at

http://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/control-line.html

Well thanks for the link but i have just finished building a spad pylon-racer and test flew it today and guess what,,, it flyes.      

Well dang, that was quick! Did you fly it with your Tee Dee? How did it run? Fast? What kind of tank? Regale us with your field and flight report, it's what we live for when we're not out there flying.
Rusty 

Some pictures would be nice as well.

Oh i know. Corflute is great for speed building and i did run it with the tee dee but it was windy so i couldn't tell you how it would be speed wize or stability wize, only that it flys.
I did start building it before the tee dee ran properly and yes it did fly with the tee dee and i had no issues with it i will try to post pics at some point.

Ok so this morning it was clam as in no wind at all and i flew it and I flew it a few times and its just unfortunately very unstable   and has a nice top speed to fly in general but i built it to be fast and its not so i think its to big and i can't find plans for 1/2 a pylon racers anywhere and i have really looked hard so if someone could give me dimensions it would be great.

mad monky wrote:Ok so this morning it was clam as in no wind at all and i flew it and I flew it a few times and its just unfortunately very unstable   and has a nice top speed to fly in general but i built it to be fast and its not so i think its to big and i can't find plans for 1/2 a pylon racers anywhere and i have really looked hard so if someone could give me dimensions it would be great.    

Ben, try checking here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/1-2-1-8-airplanes-70/193164-half-pylon-racer-list.html

Ace R/C used to sell a kit called the "GLH" (Goes Like Heck) which is a swept foam wing 1/2A Pylon Racer. I don't think the kit is in production, but foam cores are available here: https://www.flyingfoam.com/search/node/ace%20cores so you may be able to scratch-build something similar.


If you don't mind scratch-building with balsa, check this out: http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2227