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Post  Dizzyman2011 Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:32 am

Hi guys

Have just received an 051 piston / barrel and head from a friend am trying to put it into a product engine but haven't started yet is this going to increase power because of bore and piston seal and or compression or am I flogging a dead horse with this one tried once before many years ago in my infancy and could never get it to run but thought I'd give it another go now anyone out there done this with any good results
Phill
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Post  RknRusty Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:12 am

Dizzyman2011 wrote:Hi guys

Have just received an 051 piston / barrel and head from a friend am trying to put it into a product engine but haven't started yet. Is this going to increase power because of bore and piston seal and or compression, or am I flogging a dead horse with this one? Tried once before, many years ago in my infancy and could never get it to run but thought I'd give it another go now. Anyone out there done this with any good results?
Phill
Yeah, Phill, if it's a Tee Dee .051 cylinder, the small difference in bore size is negligible, but it has very aggressive porting lust like the .Tee Dee .049, plus the high compression head is a boost too. If it's something other than a Tee Dee piston/cylinder, we'll have to know what engine it's from. For instance it could have come from an RC engine and may not have sub port induction. Someone else here may be able to help you identify it.

It will increase power up to the point that the venturi can feed it. But on a product engine, the small venturi is the bottleneck in the system. You can bore the venturi to let more fuel/air in the mix and you'll have a real screamer on your hands.

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Post  crankbndr Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:48 am

I could never get the cylinders with four boost flutes( two on each bypass ) to run well in a reed valve engine
But the two boost flute cylinders run well.
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Post  Dizzyman2011 Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:03 am

Thanks for that will look it up and check it definitely is an 051 tee dee top
End I'mWorking with and let you know to what size would I need to bore out the Venturi too and what sort of power increase am I looking at
Cheers
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Post  John Goddard Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:08 am

If you click on my utube button under my avatar Phill, once you wade through the rubbish you'll see
various reedies with various topends inc TeeDee's.
If you're serious about this,-
!, make sure you've got decent fuel that contains at least 20% nitro and 20% castor oil not synthetic
or something your local shop has had in it's store cupboard for donkeys years/ IMHO Southern Model Craft
is the best place for Cox fuel in the UK at the Mo. Dave mixes it to order so you know it's fresh
and he'll make what ever you want I got some 60% niitro off him to blow some engines up with earlier this year.
2, probably a good idea to get a killer bee crankshaft
3, put a stud (all the way in) and nut instead of a prop bolt.
Very Happy
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Post  RknRusty Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:33 am

John Goddard wrote:...3, put a stud (all the way in) and nut instead of a prop bolt.
Very Happy
Absolutely. Bottom out the prop stud. That keeps the splined tip from breaking off the end of the crank at high RPM. Also balance your props meticulously. That keeps engines from lunching too, and it can make a large RPM difference when you're up there around 19-21k. Any prop less than 5" has no practical use unless you are building it to race.

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Post  Dizzyman2011 Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:44 pm

That's good advice have to get a lightened and balanced shaft then thought I might have to never thought about the prop stud though ... Think u just saved me blowing it to bits cheers guys is interesting about the shop that mixes fuel to order am using 25% nitro at the mo have tried different props have a few 5x3 5x4 and 6s normally end up with a 5x4 seems to run good for me good turn of power and doesn't labour the engine anyone know what I need to take the Venturi diameter too to make it breath better have got a nice kit I have had for about 4 years that this should be going on its a nighthawk biplane still in the box the only kit I have ever had everything else has been scratch built or plan the more I think about it where apart from eBay can I get a nice balanced crankshaft from ?
Cheers for the heads up and stopping me from blowing it up !!!!
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:07 pm

I have a few original #4 cylinders on Black Widow engines. I always ran the cylinders first using the Tee Dee case then I would switch it over. I have over 10 Black Widow cases that are worn out. I started to rebush the cases with oilite bushings. Once the anodizing wears off the case is destined to wear out. There really is nothing wrong with a case that allows side to side crank play. It just keeps wearing out until it does become a problem then performance suffers immensely. Ken
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Post  RknRusty Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:13 pm

Dizzyman2011 wrote:apart from eBay can I get a nice balanced crankshaft from ?

Both of these companies are members here:


http://www.exmodelengines.com
Link to the crankshaft: http://www.exmodelengines.com/cox-.049-killer-bee-crankshaft.html

http://coxengines.ca/
Link to the crankshaft: http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-killer-bee-diesel-crank.html

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Post  Dizzyman2011 Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:30 am

Thanks for that there's some good links there have just checked and it's a number 5 top end am I right in saying this is a .051 tee dee top end ? My research says so but need to be sure ?
Also was searching some other threads and found out that the Venturi needs to be bored to .86 or 5/64 if this is correct will need to get a bit for this as I can accurately do this with my pillar drill would this setup benefit from a fuel bladder or am I getting ahead of myself I see rusty put some vids up on making a bladder doesn't seem to difficult and have loads of postage stamp backplates what do you think ?
Cheers
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Post  John Goddard Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:31 am

Hi Phill,
Yes a 5 stamped on the upright by the exhaust port
Denotes an 051.
If you're running 25 great, hopefully it's got castor in
We can't stress enough CASTOR oil otherwise you'll
Be wearing it all out v quickly.
I'd hold off on drilling Venturi's and bladders just yet.
Also decide how much you want to spend.
You should see close to 19 with a teedee top end and
Sympathetic set up on even a sure start backplate.
If you're gonna chuck money around Bernie's (Cox Int)
Killer Bee II takes some beating and will give you
(IMO) the optimum sized Venturi on a reedie.
If I were you I'd keep the 5 to one side cos they are
Becoming v rare and there ain't gonna be any more
Made.
Also on 25% you might find it easier to start with an extra
Head gasket.
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Post  JPvelo Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:39 am

Dizzyman2011 wrote:Thanks for that there's some good links there have just checked and it's a number 5 top end am I right in saying this is a .051 tee dee top end ? My research says so but need to be sure ?
Also was searching some other threads and found out that the Venturi needs to be bored to .86 or 5/64 if this is correct will need to get a bit for this as I can accurately do this with my pillar drill would this setup benefit from a fuel bladder or am I getting ahead of myself I see rusty put some vids up on making a bladder doesn't seem to difficult and have loads of postage stamp backplates what do you think ?
Cheers
If you are going to use a bladder you can safely drill the Venturi to 13/64. You will want to de burr the reed seat with 600 grit sandpaper to get a good seal after drilling.
Jim
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Post  Dizzyman2011 Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:21 pm

John Goddard wrote:Hi Phill,
Yes a 5 stamped on the upright by the exhaust port
Denotes an 051.
If you're running 25 great, hopefully it's got castor in
We can't stress enough CASTOR oil otherwise you'll
Be wearing it all out v quickly.
I'd hold off on drilling Venturi's and bladders just yet.
Also decide how much you want to spend.
You should see close to 19 with a teedee top end and
Sympathetic set up on even a sure start backplate.
If you're gonna chuck money around Bernie's (Cox Int)
Killer Bee II takes some beating and will give you
(IMO) the optimum sized Venturi on a reedie.
If I were you I'd keep the 5 to one side cos they are
Becoming v rare and there ain't gonna be any more
Made.
Also on 25% you might find it easier to start with an extra
Head gasket.

Well to be honest the way I have always worked is find out as much as u can from the best people in the field combine the information and made an informed decision should I assume that there are plenty of 049 tee dee top ends in circulation then if so what would be a fair price for one I agree I wouldn't want to destroy a very very rare part but that's all I have if I had two or three 049 tee dee top ends would probably use them but then I don't have and never have had any tee dee engines as they are way out of my price range I would have to sell a considerable amount of model stuff to afford to buy a new engine and to me it's not worth it I am not someone who can chuck money at a problem I research and try to use the grey matter to overcome a problem that's why I love engineering particularly model
Engineering
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Post  Dizzyman2011 Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:28 pm

Oh also to add thanks for the heads up on the head gasket never even thought about that have plenty in stock though as well as some timing shims so that should be ok wil try it soon I still don't know what to do I want to create a powerful reedie as in the most power u can get but will have to settle wIth the best I can make out of the spares I have I think I do agree about the no 5 but it's the only zippy one I have
Cheers
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Post  Dizzyman2011 Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:00 am

John Goddard wrote:If you click on my utube button under my avatar Phill, once you wade through the rubbish you'll see
various reedies with various topends inc TeeDee's.
If you're serious about this,-
!, make sure you've got decent fuel that contains at least 20% nitro and 20% castor oil not synthetic
or something your local shop has had in it's store cupboard for donkeys years/ IMHO Southern Model Craft
is the best place for Cox fuel in the UK at the Mo. Dave mixes it to order so you know it's fresh
and he'll make what ever you want I got some 60% niitro off him to blow some engines up with earlier this year.
2, probably a good idea to get a killer bee crankshaft
3, put a stud (all the way in) and nut instead of a prop bolt.
Very Happy
Hey John was trying to look up those vids of yours on utube but couldn't find them clicked on your utube link under your avatar but nothing came up my apologies if I am not doing something correct
Phill
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Post  John Goddard Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:19 am

Sorry Phill, Gawd knows why but it does
That sometimes....
Search Utube for Killa B'stard and you'll
Find my nonsense.
The Kb initial runs were with my old IP3
So not great and it was before I learnt Rusty's
Fuel tube over the N/V trick so the revs
Against the tach do wander somewhat but
You get the picture.
Again IMO get to know Bernie or Mat who
Both offer great gear at v reasonable prices
Including new td cylinder/piston sets and
Td hi comp heads.
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Post  John Goddard Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:35 am

For a little over 40 bucks (the boys are both very
Savvy so you won't get hit for VAT like
You will when buying from most US vendors) you
Can get your new 049 td piston cylinder and KB
Back plate delivered.
Before I started putting silly song lyrics as my
Signature it read ' making the
Mistakes so you don't have to'.
I spent quite a bit and wrecked a fair few earlier
This year.
I'm sure if you messed around long enough you
Can improve on my figures but...
A solid 22k on an engine that starts first or
Second flip every time on 20%, that hasn't gone
'bang' yet and created from over the counter bits
Isn't to be sniffed at.
J
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Post  Dizzyman2011 Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:50 am

Hey just checked our your vids got some good stuff on there my favourite is nervous norvel boys !!!! They should be seems like you have got that pretty sorted what's the fuel tube over nva mod though is it down to the backplate or to the spring and is it just to stop vibration adjusting the mix or am I off the mark also like the 010 in the little fmk goes well doesn't it am I right in saying the power to weight is probably about the same as 049 ? Keep the vids coming
Phill
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Post  John Goddard Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:40 pm

Dunno what the other lads do Phill but mine
Go's over the lot right to the backplate. The idea
Being that any leaks around the N/V are dealt
With and it can't self adjust with the vibration.
Yeah The FMK's a laugh but it has a PeeWee in
It now. Which I guess is where your 049d 7in
Will be re wing loading etc. It'll fly Ok but mine
Glides like a Volkswagen.
Very Happy
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