Teaching CL

Whenever I was getting my father going in Control Line I just had him fly on his own. But he has RC experience. He did fairly well. Couple wrecks. Was and RC Bee rich on a battered Skyray. Eventually we leaned it out and put the prop on backwards. It made things easier on me for tuning. He has never really tried tuning Cox engines much so I would just do it.

Being that your son is 6 and I imagine little experience in this then you could try holding the front of the handle. People say not to use wrist when learning CL. I always did. But I could see how it would be easier if one did not. You could also fabricate a dual handle setup. Have two handles attached to each other and spaced apart to allow for hand comfort. Then he can just let go if he gets dizzy. Others will probably chime in soon.

Rolla

Edit: I figured I would go ahead and post this. I had to teach myself how to fly CL. I had some help online. None of us (Father & Me) had even seen a CL plane in the air (besides internet). I still have yet to see anyone besides my father and my friend fly CL. Out of us three I have been doing it the longest and am usually the one to do a maiden and to see if the plane is capable of doing a certain stunt. This was me flying my Lil' Wizard. I have since moved on to way touchier planes. I love fast and touchy CL planes. It can give you a good rush. I like pushing my skills to see what I can do. My biggest challenge is inverted with a pressure system. Controls being flipped can really mess you up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sprYsOmcex4&list=UUD70RDxxXd10PmmFx0JQRqg&index=7&feature=plcp

Ron, whether you switch to the Babe or go with the big backwards prop and rich running on the BW, I think making sure it's fairly nose heavy(rocks over to 45 deg. when held at your regular CG mark) will make it fly flat laps with little effort. Dizziness is the main thing to overcome, and I bet your 6 year old has superior balance. It's good to hold your arm out and pretend to fly, turning at about the same speed as when really flying. A few sets of three minute practice sessions should get the inner ear used to it.

Just remember to re-balance it before you do any loops or they could end up as figure 9s.

Godsey3.0 wrote:...I had to teach myself how to fly CL. I had some help online. None of us (Father & Me) had even seen a CL plane in the air (besides internet). I still have yet to see anyone besides my father and my friend fly CL. Out of us three I have been doing it the longest and am usually the one to do a maiden and to see if the plane is capable of doing a certain stunt. This was me flying my Lil' Wizard. I have since moved on to way touchier planes. I love fast and touchy CL planes. It can give you a good rush. I like pushing my skills to see what I can do. My biggest challenge is inverted with a pressure system. Controls being flipped can really mess you up.

I was surprised at how naturally inverted flying came. I thought I would get confused with the muscle memory having never experienced it. But when I started flipping it I realized I was looking at the plane with the wheels pointed up and my hand seemed to automatically understand and resolve the directional commands. The only problem is you get dizzy like you've never flown before turning in the other direction, so you have to get used to that.

That's pretty cool, having self taught with only Youtube and forum advice to get yourself going. After your Jumpin' Bean aggravation, you picked it up and moved on to the Blackhawk Kom-Bat wings and the others. My Dad taught me to fly, sort of. He said he'd done it before, but I never saw him pull it off. I was by myself in the circle. And he taught me to hold the handle wrong, horizontal in my overhand fist with only wrist right for up and wrist left for down. I'm stuck with that now, but it works for me. I hold it with my fingertips. You can imagine how well that worked for my first plane, a Black Stuka, the most unstable plane ever sold by Cox. He bailed me out with a new PT-19, but I punished it too.

One thing you mentioned, leaning it out to make it run slower. Running it rich is a better way to slow it down, as lean will oil-starve and overheat the engine and wear it out in short order.

I did not lean it out to slow it down. Sometimes when rich and backwards prop the plane flies too slow. The plane can then come in on you. We experienced that multiple times. So we ran the engine normally with prop backwards. This kept it slow and stable.

Rolla

Ok guys, I think I will do as you say. Just slow it down and get out of the way. I was trying to keep the plane intact so I tried to guide his arm. Made me dizzy as I was watching him and the plane.

The Wizard is pretty beat up anyway, I was going to have him fly the Gem, but it was too twitchy for him. The Wizard is more stable.

Believe it or not my son did not get dizzy at all and that Widow was screaming!!!!

BTW, thanks for the help guys much appreciated.

Here's how to successfully train someone :
#1- Use a plane that can be lost in a crash without crying about it. This is after all, supposed to be fun, remember?

#2- Tell the student that this is a training flight and he/she may crash. Make sure the fear of crashing doesn't get in the way of learning. It's all about relaxation.

#3- Get the plane in the air yourself. Most people will panick after taking off on their own and overcontrol the plane, inducing severe climbing and diving which will usually end with a guaranteed impact with the ground.

Here's where you need to be an instructor. You need to be able to fly with either hand. Try it, it is easier than you think.

#4- Have your student stand in FRONT of you and get used to turning in a circle for a lap or two as you fly the plane.

#5- After getting the plane in stable level flight, you put YOUR hand on the OUTSIDE of the handle. It's a 1/2A plane and you should have no problem hanging onto the outside of the little plastic handles that we use.

#6- Have your student slip their hand in to the control handle as you fly the plane. With the student following your lead, slowly climb and dive the plane. Make them do some shallow climb and dive maneuvers with you as YOU keep them from overcontroling the plane.

#7- Now that they have the feel for the controls, remove your hand but keep it close for a lap or two. DO NOT TOUCH YOUR STUDENT- DO NOT GUIDE THEIR ARM.

#8- Tell them that THEY have the plane. This is the critical part. This is positive mental reinforcement and a command that lets them know that they are now pilot in command.

#9- Tell them that they are doing fine, even if they are not.

#10- If they get into trouble or get dizzy, offer to take the plane back.

I have taken people that have walked up to me that I have never met before, and had them flying the plane within one flight.
Most students catch on quickly because of the relaxed method of handing over the controls.
Bar none, the best plane for teaching students is a Top Flite Baby Flite Streak with a Babe Bee with the prop on backwards. Every other 1/2A plane flies like a squirrel having a seizure.

Personally, I think the best way to train for C/L flight is to have a bigger plane/motor that you can slow the rpms on and just have it lumber around the circle easily. To get use to the control input's without being "behind" right off the start with a singing 1/2A motor. Bigger plane/motor on longer lines allows you to stand behind the Trainee and turn easily enough with them.

PV Pilot wrote:Personally, I think the best way to train for C/L flight is to have a bigger plane/motor that you can slow the rpms on and just have it lumber around the circle easily. To get use to the control input's without being "behind" right off the start with a singing 1/2A motor. Bigger plane/motor on longer lines allows you to stand behind the Trainee and turn easily enough with them.

I agree that larger planes are much easier to fly. The neat thing about the bigger planes is the better sensation of control that comes with increased line tension.

Unfortunately, most people don't want to sink a bunch of money into a large complex aircraft. They start out small and usually with a slab type wing with a screaming Cox bee on the front of it. As far as flight characteristics go, you can't get much worse than that.

One things for sure - if you can successfully fly a 1/2A slab with a Bee on the front of it, you can fly just about any control line plane except possibly one of the faster combat ships.

The greatest part of teaching control line is watching the student get dizzy and stumble after the plane lands!

lousyflyer wrote:One things for sure - if you can successfully fly a 1/2A slab with a Bee on the front of it, you can fly just about any control line plane except possibly one of the faster combat ships.

Well that's good news... I flew my first (and successful) CL flight with a wing, and a screaming RR1.

You did a wingover as soon as i let go of it. I couldn't believe you recovered on the other side of the circle and flattened it out. I'll post that video later tonight.

Here is Matt doing the elevator check:

Nice flying site.

RknRusty wrote:You did a wingover as soon as i let go of it. I couldn't believe you recovered on the other side of the circle and flattened it out. I'll post that video later tonight.

Here is Matt doing the elevator check:

Ibam surprised you didn't grab the Stuntman. Hat's off to you Rusty for letting Matt have a go on one of your nice models. I bet you were pretty clenched up at the top of that wingover......

Good to know it's still all about fun!

cribbs74 wrote:I am surprised you didn't grab the Stuntman. Hat's off to you Rusty for letting Matt have a go on one of your nice models. I bet you were pretty clenched up at the top of that wingover......

Good to know it's still all about fun!

Nah, it's cool. I think I did utter something like "Uuuuuuhh... Damn, did you see that!." The Li'l Satan is tougher than it looks. He done good!

I'm going to get that movie saving right now.

EDIT: It's saving now. I'll upload it when it finishes

It's a very sensitive little plane, even when only using your arm. (opposed to wrist)

I was thinking in my head, what most first timers think.... PLEASErunoutofgasPLEASErunoutofgas..

Fun stuff.

microflitedude wrote:It's a very sensitive little plane, even when only using your arm. (opposed to wrist)

I was thinking in my head, what most first timers think.... PLEASErunoutofgasPLEASErunoutofgas..

Fun stuff.

Funny Matt,

I was thinking that last weekend when I was flying with my son. I filled that widow all the way up!!!!

Here's Matt flying the Li'l Satan with the Mudhen built RR1.



Nice job back-steping in a curve to keep it tight during the landing.

Good job Matt! I liked the stooge antics in the beginning. You picked it up much quicker than I did that's for sure.

Maybe having someone talk you through it helps.

Way to go, Matt.

This one handles like a "brick"

cribbs74 wrote:Good job Matt! I liked the stooge antics in the beginning. You picked it up much quicker than I did that's for sure.

Maybe having someone talk you through it helps.

Thanks.

It definitely helped - Mr. Rusty is a great teacher.

lousyflyer wrote:This one handles like a "brick"

Good one!

There is a STYX song that comes to mind........."tttttttt too much time on my hands"

That one's "Hard" to fly and "Heavy" on the lines.

And yes, I have too much time on my hands.

lousyflyer wrote:This one handles like a "brick"

That's hilarious.
That brick happens to be a highly technical component of this recently de-classified launch system. Didn't want anyone to reverse engineer it.