"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !!

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:55 am

What with Ron's recent success in flying his Little Wizard, I was inspired to kick off the first day of my "Week of Vacation with Nothing Planned" by test-flying my Scientific "Big Otto" with "Lucky 13" stuck in it's nose.

I got everything set up, and almost ready launch, but while checking the Big O's controls, it's tail fins crumbled. I mean like saltine crackers!

5 or 6 years ago, when I built the plane, I was on a binge to save every gram possible, and used the lightest stock in my inventory...you ALWAYS use light stuff in the tail...right?! I was then mightily irked to discover that I had to put a boat-anchor's worth of lead in the back of the thing to balance it against that long snout. Well, whatever...it turned out to be a great flyer anyway, so no real harm done.

Up 'till this morning, it didn't matter...then the fins just let go! I am VERY thankful that they decided to do this on the Launching Board rather than a few seconds later, in flight, with Bernie's Xtreme .049 going at Full-Tilt !! There would be a little more repair involved had that happened!

So now, Big Otto gets new fins...MADE FROM PLY !!!! The rest of the airplane may give up, but it's tailfeathers shall last forever! This will also allow me to excavate that lead mine from Otto's backside ! Nothing like exchanging dead weight for working weight!

Now, time for breakfast!!!

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 1_156

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 1_156

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 2_108

**Cribbs74** Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:16 am

Not so lucky 13......

Oh well, at least you have some sureity it will fly without coming apart.

Your Signature has me humming Skynyrd for the past 2 days.

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:34 am

Yep...that would have been a nasty surprise!

A couple years ago, I rode all the way to Colorado with "Breeze" re-running through my brain!

I was mighty sick of it by the time I got there! Fortunately, I've got an MP-3 player and helmet speakers to help flush my brain with new music when I get "stuck" on a song !

Mark Boesen Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:55 am

(Homer Simpson voice) mmmm....Big Otto! That's a plane I've always wanted to have since I first saw it in the model airplanes mags.

Building the tail light...that reminds me of my first Sig Banshee I built as a kid, I spend days sanding that sucker down, thinking I'm gonna make the lightest one ever...only to add a small handfull of lead fishing weights to it!
"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Mb210

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Mb210

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:08 am

[quote="Mark Boesen"](Homer Simpson voice) mmmm....Big Otto! That's a plane I've always wanted to have since I first saw it in the model airplanes mags.

Building the tail light...that reminds me of my first Sig Banshee I built as a kid, I spend days sanding that sucker down, thinking I'm gonna make the lightest one ever...only to add a small handfull of lead fishing weights to it!

Yep...in spite of "the best efforts of mice and men", sometimes you just got to let the brain games go and finish the sucker !!!!

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:41 pm

The "Morning of Big Otto" continues into the "Day of Big Otto"...but that's OK...since the Skunk Works is now surrounded by several spectacular Cumulonimbus T-Storm Cells!!!! Ain't no flying gonna happen for a while !!!

Figure I might ought to hold onto that chunk 'o lead I dug out of Big Otto !

"Hunker Down and Mix the Epoxy" !!!

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 3_90

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 3_90

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 4_60

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 5_47

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:32 pm

Survived the storms, and now, Big Otto is waiting for his tail paint to dry !!

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 6_43

**RknRusty** Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:04 pm

That's a cool looking plane. It should give you a nice wild ride with that hotrod Bee.
How'd the weight distribution turn out with the ply tail feathers? What kind of prop are you going to fly on it?

Kim Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:55 pm

Thanks Rusty ! It's my favorite Walt Musciano Model and I think it's about the best flying one of the bunch.

"Wild" WAS the word for it ! I put in several flights late in the day, and swapped some stuff each time. I used Sig 25% on all of them.

The first flight was with a Tornado 5-3 and one head shim. On 35' lines, it was simply too fast for me to do any thing but circles. I'd like to move it out to 40 or 45 feet (already got some lines made up) to give myself more "sky".

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 7_34

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 7_34

I then swapped out the Tornado for a gray 6-3 and two head shims, but ole 13 didn't like it, and surged while I made laps.

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 8_33

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 8_33

Lastly, I bolted on a gray Cox 5-3 prop with two head shims, and THAT was a little more manageable.

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 9_26

I made the rest of the flights (about 4) with this set-up, but it was STILL too fast for me to do more than a couple loops (very FAST loops!).

Even with the ply fins, I STILL had to add a little lead to the tail to get the CG just past the forward leadout line. So, anyone wanting to build one should probably go ahead and make it that way in the first place.

Because of space restrictions, I can only fly on 35' lines in the front yard, but want to get this thing down to the airport, and fly it on 40 or 45 foot lines !

**RknRusty** Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:10 pm

Kim wrote:Thanks Rusty ! It's my favorite Walt Musciano Model and I think it's about the best flying one of the bunch.

"Wild" WAS the word for it !... I can only fly on 35' lines in the front yard, but want to get this thing down to the airport, and fly it on 40 or 45 foot lines !

Over cement. You got guts, boy... or confidence. How long does that red Bee run in the air?

I'm going to rig a 40' set for my Streak. I'm itchin' to fly it again. No way in hell I'd fly that rocket over cement yet. Maybe after I get used to it.

Don't forget to check your control line clips. lol!

I don't want to hear you scream "Oh Crap!" in any videos again.

**Cribbs74** Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:39 pm

RknRusty wrote:
Kim wrote:Thanks Rusty ! It's my favorite Walt Musciano Model and I think it's about the best flying one of the bunch.

"Wild" WAS the word for it !... I can only fly on 35' lines in the front yard, but want to get this thing down to the airport, and fly it on 40 or 45 foot lines !
Over cement. You got guts, boy... or confidence. How long does that red Bee run in the air?

I'm going to rig a 40' set for my Streak. I'm itchin' to fly it again. No way in hell I'd fly that rocket over cement yet. Maybe after I get used to it.

Don't forget to check your control line clips. I don't want to hear you scream "Oh Crap!" in any videos again.

That's a fine looking model Kim. I bet given some time you will tame the beast.

Kim Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:08 am

RknRusty wrote:
Kim wrote:Thanks Rusty ! It's my favorite Walt Musciano Model and I think it's about the best flying one of the bunch.

"Wild" WAS the word for it !... I can only fly on 35' lines in the front yard, but want to get this thing down to the airport, and fly it on 40 or 45 foot lines !
Over cement. You got guts, boy... or confidence. How long does that red Bee run in the air?

I'm going to rig a 40' set for my Streak. I'm itchin' to fly it again. No way in hell I'd fly that rocket over cement yet. Maybe after I get used to it.

Don't forget to check your control line clips. I don't want to hear you scream "Oh Crap!" in any videos again.

No Kidding !!! I don't want to be hollering that again either ! Yeah, the line thing has stayed with me since that day... REALLY bad to smack a plane over something like that!

I won't be flying over 360 degrees of concrete on this flight. There's an abandoned strip of asphalt in the grass field alongside the airport entrance road. I'm gonna try Otto there first to see if he'll stay out on his lines. I MAY have to install a wingtip ballast box if I keep messing with different line lengths.

I intended to time the engine run on each flight, and kept forgetting, but I FELT like it was at least a minute and a half. I'll set up the video camera next time and use it to find out.

Kim Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:20 am

cribbs74 wrote:

That's a fine looking model Kim. I bet given some time you will tame the beast.

Thanks Ron !!!

Bernie's little monster sure turned it into a different plane! It's a fairly high-time model, and all these super-fast laps have me thinking that I might ought to do a little surgery and inspect it's carpet thread lead-outs at it's bellcrank. Nothing like a little preventive medicine to prevent another "Oh...CRAP" !!

Later! Dizzy Kim

andrew Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:17 am

Kim wrote:
It's a fairly high-time model, and all these super-fast laps have me thinking that I might ought to do a little surgery and inspect it's carpet thread lead-outs at it's bellcrank. Nothing like a little preventive medicine to prevent another "Oh...CRAP" !!

I've used a lot of carpet thread over the years and still do to some extent. I've found over time that it will fray and weaken to the point of breaking easily --- I suspect the cotton has just deteriorated with age (I know I have Sad

). A little work now might save some unhappiness later. In areas that tend to be covered up or glued in, I try to use wire if possible.

Nothing like resurrecting an old plane with a new engine --- just like having a new model.

andrew

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:56 am

If I don't have wire, I sometimes still use dacron flying line. It's tough stuff and lasts a long time.

Kim Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 am

RknRusty wrote:If I don't have wire, I sometimes still use dacron flying line. It's tough stuff and lasts a long time.

Yeah, as long as you can check it once in a while it works fine. I've got a spool of synthetic carpet thread that was given to me back in the 70's and have yet to have it fail as lead-out material...but that isn't something I like to bet a plane on.

I learned a hard lesson (seems like a LOT of my lessons qualify for a Rockwell Number), when I lost my cherished Poulan Special to a set of steel leadouts that failed. The kit was a personal gift from Dave Shipton (of Sig Dewey Bird Fame), and I built it back in 1995 or so. Somehow, the huge number of flying hours on the old dog never caused me take a good look-see at it's guts, and a few months ago, at the bottom of a loop, the Up-Line let go, and the Special plunged into the grass at pretty much top speed.

On autopsy, I found that BOTH lines had been frayed by the aluminum bellcrank, with the remaining line hanging on by just a few strands. A quick slice with an exacto knife for a peek under the MonoKote would have prevented this, and set the plane up for another decade or so of flying.

The model had a good, long life, but it still sucks to lose one this way.

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 2_109

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 2_109

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! 1_159

PV Pilot Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:54 am

Dang!. All these pics and vids of late, of expired models makes me sick to see it. We need a "Hall of Horror" thread area on the forum,,for crash flights and damaged birds and the stories associated.

The Rivets crash was the worst yet, really hated seeing that cool looking antique go into groundhog/ostrich mode.

**Cribbs74** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:51 am

Kim wrote:
RknRusty wrote:If I don't have wire, I sometimes still use dacron flying line. It's tough stuff and lasts a long time.

Yeah, as long as you can check it once in a while it works fine. I've got a spool of synthetic carpet thread that was given to me back in the 70's and have yet to have it fail as lead-out material...but that isn't something I like to bet a plane on.

I learned a hard lesson (seems like a LOT of my lessons qualify for a Rockwell Number), when I lost my cherished Poulan Special to a set of steel leadouts that failed. The kit was a personal gift from Dave Shipton (of Sig Dewey Bird Fame), and I built it back in 1995 or so. Somehow, the huge number of flying hours on the old dog never caused me take a good look-see at it's guts, and a few months ago, at the bottom of a loop, the Up-Line let go, and the Special plunged into the grass at pretty much top speed.

On autopsy, I found that BOTH lines had been frayed by the aluminum bellcrank, with the remaining line hanging on by just a few strands. A quick slice with an exacto knife for a peek under the MonoKote would have prevented this, and set the plane up for another decade or so of flying.

The model had a good, long life, but it still sucks to lose one this way.

Shoot Kim,

That special looks repairable. Surely there was enough of the wings left to make a template or two and rebuild. Or am I missing something?

Ron

Kim Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:58 pm

[quote="cribbs74"]

Kim wrote:
RknRusty wrote:If I don't have wire, I sometimes still use dacron flying line. It's tough stuff and lasts a long time.

Yeah, as long as you can check it once in a while it works fine. I've got a spool of synthetic carpet thread that was given to me back in the 70's and have yet to have it fail as lead-out material...but that isn't something I like to bet a plane on.

I learned a hard lesson (seems like a LOT of my lessons qualify for a Rockwell Number), when I lost my cherished Poulan Special to a set of steel leadouts that failed. The kit was a personal gift from Dave Shipton (of Sig Dewey Bird Fame), and I built it back in 1995 or so. Somehow, the huge number of flying hours on the old dog never caused me take a good look-see at it's guts, and a few months ago, at the bottom of a loop, the Up-Line let go, and the Special plunged into the grass at pretty much top speed.

On autopsy, I found that BOTH lines had been frayed by the aluminum bellcrank, with the remaining line hanging on by just a few strands. A quick slice with an exacto knife for a peek under the MonoKote would have prevented this, and set the plane up for another decade or so of flying.

The model had a good, long life, but it still sucks to lose one this way.

Shoot Kim,

That special looks repairable. Surely there was enough of the wings left to make a template or two and rebuild. Or am I missing something?

Ron

Yeah, the fuse is rebuildable, and plenty of ribs (or their pieces) survived , AND I've still got Dave's plans filed away somewhere in the dusty archives. The Special's carcass has been safely tucked away for this reason.

The main problem is time and energy. I've got a backlog of projects that could fill another life if I were granted one, and the trickle of new finished projects would totally dry up if I spent too much time doing retro-builds.

Still, quirky as I tend to be, there could always come a sleepless night that see's me dragging out the Special's plans and starting another wing.

Kim Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:16 pm

PV Pilot wrote:Dang!. All these pics and vids of late, of expired models makes me sick to see it. We need a "Hall of Horror" thread area on the forum,,for crash flights and damaged birds and the stories associated.

The Rivets crash was the worst yet, really hated seeing that cool looking antique go into groundhog/ostrich mode.

I think John's got a thread on that titled: Society of Model Airplane Crashers" though I couldn't find it with the search. engine.

Yeah, the Rivets crash was a heatbreaker, especially considering that it happened because of a simple mistake that shouldn't have happened. But these are the hazards if the planes are gonna do anything besides sit on a shelf somewhere.

Lately, I've read several threads on the other site, with members stating unequivocally that certain models simply would not fly. I know for a fact that many are not true...at least in an across-the-board statement, but I don't mess with ego battles anymore...just go out and fly my planes. Rivets was one of the "unflyable" models, and yet for it's kind, it lifted off nicely and flew until MY mistake did it in. It'll fly again, with properly connected lines ! It won't be a Ringmaster or Shark, it'll fly like a Plastic Scale Model...which gives it some allowance in the stunt arena!

**RknRusty** Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:55 pm

Oh, that was a beautiful plane. That hurts.

"Society of Aircraft Demolishers" I'll see if I can dig it up.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t903-sad-open-for-membership

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOCIETY-AIRCRAFT-DEMOLISHERS-SAD-MEMBER-AIRCRAFT-FRAGMENTUM-AVIATION-BXR-125-/360469769553

lousyflyer Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:55 pm

Back in the early seventies, when I had hair - and a Big Otto.
I flew this one with Cox reed valve engine until I snapped the nose off, then I got brave and put a Fox 15 on it. On 52' lines it was a blur and only lasted a couple of flights.

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Otto_010

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Otto_010

Kim Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:02 am

Big Otto Rules !!!!! But with a .15 ??? Holy Cats !!!!!! It must have had Shock Diamonds forming behind it !!!!

Ken Cook Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:30 am

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Dscn2312

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Dscn2313

"Big Otto and Bernie's Xtreme .049" !! Dscn2314

Not a pretty one by no means, I was using up all my scrap Monokote. I had the gray laying around for years and Big Otto's wing pretty much utilized the pieces.

Kim, it took me a little while but I managed to GET ER DONE!!!! Power is going to be a TD on pressure ( Note the bladder tube through the fuse). Engine nacelle was lined inside with 1/64" ply and glassed within the bladder tube penetration. I hope to fly it this weekend but mother nature is not cooperating in these parts. Here we are and the temps haven't risen above 40 and it appears to be in the mid to lower 30's all week. I've pretty much had it with the cold.

Kim Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:47 am

DEFINITELY heard that! We've had several beautiful days, and I was able to use a couple of them, but ready for more! I drove into town for breakfast yesterday, through a snowstorm, and the smell of freshly mowed grass. Good ole Missouri Springtime...

Great looking Otto! Looks like there gonna be a lot of Mr. Musciano's creations turning circles this summer !!

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