Log in
Search
Latest topics
» Roger Harris revisitedby TD ABUSER Today at 2:30 am
» My latest doodle...
by batjac Yesterday at 10:05 pm
» Retail price mark-up.. how much is enough?
by gkamysz Yesterday at 9:29 pm
» Happy 77th birthday Andrew!
by roddie Yesterday at 9:22 pm
» My N-1R build log
by GallopingGhostler Yesterday at 3:04 pm
» Tee Dee .020 combat model
by 1/2A Nut Yesterday at 2:43 pm
» Chocolate chip cookie dough.........
by roddie Yesterday at 1:13 pm
» Purchased the last of any bult engines from Ken Enya
by sosam117 Yesterday at 11:32 am
» Free Flight Radio Assist
by rdw777 Yesterday at 9:24 am
» Funny what you find when you go looking
by rsv1cox Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:21 pm
» Landing-gear tips
by 1975 control line guy Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:17 am
» Cox NaBOO - Just in time for Halloween
by rsv1cox Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:35 pm
Cox Engine of The Month
Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Page 1 of 1
Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
I picked up some Enya mufflers (seven of them) a few months ago at a swap meet.
Got a good deal on them ($5.00 a piece)
All missing the screws/bolts for them.
Two mufflers (Enya 19X) missing the straps and hope either Bob Brooks has them or Ken Enya?
There is other straps included but don't belong with the Enya mufflers I have (maybe go to O.S. mufflers?)
One muffler (Enya 60-III) was really corroded (oxidized).
I was going to wire brush it the best I could then paint it.
A friend suggested I should try this Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black.
Like bluing for metal but for aluminum. So, I purchased a bottle to give it a try.
My friend came over to give me a hand on how to use it.
He has used it to redo/cover up small scratches on his pistols.
So, I wire brushed off the bad oxidation on the muffler the best I could, then wiped the muffler with denatured alcohol as per instructions. Then using one of the cotton swabs you would use for gun bluing, I dipped it in to the Aluminum Black solution that I poured into a plastic cup.
As I swabbed the solution on, I think I saw "smoke" coming off the muffler?
As I swabbed more of the solution on things were not looking good?
The muffler surface looked like it was getting rougher, but it was turning black.
So. o.k. I got the entire muffler coated and waited a minute like the instructions said.
Then I rinsed the muffler to remove the Aluminum Black solution off and sprayed on some "gun oil" on the muffler as per instructions and left it for a day.
Next day, I looked over the muffler and felt it and it felt gritty?
Looked at my hand and it was black and gritty, land it felt like 180 grit sandpaper?
I wiped off the oil that was on the muffler and all of this black stuff was in the rag and the muffler felt really rough too?
What to do?
I decided to use some steel wool and scuff this gritty stuff off the muffler.
It worked but now I have a scratched up, smoothed, and lightly pitted muffler?
Well, I tried the Aluminum Black solution again. this time things went better. No slight smoke, everything turning black (nicely).
No real problems like the 1st time. Finished up doing the same as the 1st time with gun oil.
Next day took a look at the muffler. Had some light and dark spots. So, I figured to do it again and coat it one more time.
As usual, gun oil on it and came back the next day.
The muffler looked pretty good. Only downside was the slightly rougher finish that if the muffler was new.
I think that was caused by the corrosion that was originally on the muffler before I used the Aluminum Black?
Well, I decided to use a "clear" high temp clear paint (used for exhaust headers).
I just gave it a super light coat to just cove the surface to seal it.
The muffler looks good but if you see carefully in the photo, you can see how rough the surface is.
Next, I figured to try it on a slightly used Enya 19X muffler.
This muffler had no pitting, on slight discoloration (like the other Enya 19X muffler in the photo).
With this muffler, I used the Aluminum Black solution on it twice to get an even "black" finish o the muffler.
I did the same procedure as the Enya 60-III muffler, except it has no clear coat of paint on it as the finish turned out better on this muffler.
The un-blacken Enya 60-III was just wire brushed -- but not as oxidized as the one I blackened.
Well, what I have learned is that if there is a lot of corrosion on the muffler, using Aluminum Black solution might not be the answer.
If it is good clean aluminum, it might turn out not too bad?
Got a good deal on them ($5.00 a piece)
All missing the screws/bolts for them.
Two mufflers (Enya 19X) missing the straps and hope either Bob Brooks has them or Ken Enya?
There is other straps included but don't belong with the Enya mufflers I have (maybe go to O.S. mufflers?)
One muffler (Enya 60-III) was really corroded (oxidized).
I was going to wire brush it the best I could then paint it.
A friend suggested I should try this Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black.
Like bluing for metal but for aluminum. So, I purchased a bottle to give it a try.
My friend came over to give me a hand on how to use it.
He has used it to redo/cover up small scratches on his pistols.
So, I wire brushed off the bad oxidation on the muffler the best I could, then wiped the muffler with denatured alcohol as per instructions. Then using one of the cotton swabs you would use for gun bluing, I dipped it in to the Aluminum Black solution that I poured into a plastic cup.
As I swabbed the solution on, I think I saw "smoke" coming off the muffler?
As I swabbed more of the solution on things were not looking good?
The muffler surface looked like it was getting rougher, but it was turning black.
So. o.k. I got the entire muffler coated and waited a minute like the instructions said.
Then I rinsed the muffler to remove the Aluminum Black solution off and sprayed on some "gun oil" on the muffler as per instructions and left it for a day.
Next day, I looked over the muffler and felt it and it felt gritty?
Looked at my hand and it was black and gritty, land it felt like 180 grit sandpaper?
I wiped off the oil that was on the muffler and all of this black stuff was in the rag and the muffler felt really rough too?
What to do?
I decided to use some steel wool and scuff this gritty stuff off the muffler.
It worked but now I have a scratched up, smoothed, and lightly pitted muffler?
Well, I tried the Aluminum Black solution again. this time things went better. No slight smoke, everything turning black (nicely).
No real problems like the 1st time. Finished up doing the same as the 1st time with gun oil.
Next day took a look at the muffler. Had some light and dark spots. So, I figured to do it again and coat it one more time.
As usual, gun oil on it and came back the next day.
The muffler looked pretty good. Only downside was the slightly rougher finish that if the muffler was new.
I think that was caused by the corrosion that was originally on the muffler before I used the Aluminum Black?
Well, I decided to use a "clear" high temp clear paint (used for exhaust headers).
I just gave it a super light coat to just cove the surface to seal it.
The muffler looks good but if you see carefully in the photo, you can see how rough the surface is.
Next, I figured to try it on a slightly used Enya 19X muffler.
This muffler had no pitting, on slight discoloration (like the other Enya 19X muffler in the photo).
With this muffler, I used the Aluminum Black solution on it twice to get an even "black" finish o the muffler.
I did the same procedure as the Enya 60-III muffler, except it has no clear coat of paint on it as the finish turned out better on this muffler.
The un-blacken Enya 60-III was just wire brushed -- but not as oxidized as the one I blackened.
Well, what I have learned is that if there is a lot of corrosion on the muffler, using Aluminum Black solution might not be the answer.
If it is good clean aluminum, it might turn out not too bad?
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Nice explaination.
I had not seen that product, must be formulated for aluminum instead of steel. The roughness is very apparent over the unfinished mufflers but it seems that you cleaned it properly beforehand. The product must be eating into the metal. Smoke.
Recoating works, often I will recoat my Oxpho treated metals at least three times before I'm happy.
I had not seen that product, must be formulated for aluminum instead of steel. The roughness is very apparent over the unfinished mufflers but it seems that you cleaned it properly beforehand. The product must be eating into the metal. Smoke.
Recoating works, often I will recoat my Oxpho treated metals at least three times before I'm happy.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
-
Posts : 11248
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
I have no luck with that stuff either, comes right off on aluminum.
crankbndr- Top Poster
- Posts : 3109
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Homestead FL
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
crankbndr wrote:I have no luck with that stuff either, comes right off on aluminum.
I think the main problem with the big muffler was all of the corrosion that it had beforehand.
Which was probably aluminum oxide (and the reason it "smoked")
So, when I used the Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black it etched even farther past the corroded area?
Maybe that is why the surface got even rougher?
The rough stuff that came off was probably the small bits of aluminum that was corroded?
The "clean" newer Enya muffler (smaller) didn't have that problem (because of any corrosion?)
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
The smaller (upper) muffler looks the better of the two. Nice effect scuffing off the ENYA. Really sets it off.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
-
Posts : 11248
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Too funny! I've been cleaning out my garage for the last two days. While sweeping under the Porsche, I noticed I hand-screwed all the aluminum lug nuts back on each hub (well, I noticed a while lot more than just lug nuts). These are a flat-black finish when new. Thirty-six years later they aren't so black anymore.
This is the very stuff that came up when I was searching earlier today.
Thanks Sosam!
This is the very stuff that came up when I was searching earlier today.
Thanks Sosam!
_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
I think that result depends of aluminum type.
Levent Suberk- Diamond Member
- Posts : 2265
Join date : 2017-12-24
Location : Türkiye
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
You may be onto something, Levent. The earlier muffler does appear to be of a slightly different aluminum.Levent Suberk wrote:I think that result depends of aluminum type.
7 years ago I did the antifreeze bath, clean-up, then used Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish on this Enya .35-III TV engine and separately purchased muffler.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8180-a-few-tips-i-have-learned-on-restoring-the-19-to-40-red-blue-head-mccoy-engines#104094
Before:
After:
Although it's finish does not mirror an NOS one, it still looked quite acceptable after clean up. It does appear to be cast of a different aluminum alloy.
Perhaps the aluminum is porous enough that Castor and corrosion are easily embedded restricting complete removal, hindering the treatment to chemically bond evenly to the aluminum surface of the older muffler?
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
-
Posts : 5723
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 70
Location : Clovis NM or NFL KC Chiefs
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Yes, maybe the older muffler didn't have as pure aluminum asthe newer muffler?
Maybe the old muffler has some magnesium in it and that would cause the "smoking".
Magnesium was a good, cheap, filler to aluminum.
I didn't think about that until I read your posting GallopingGhostler.
Like the old "original" Mills engines that were made in England.
Those had to be careful on storing them because after a while they would get a white powdery stuff on the crankcase.
That is why the Mills engines were painted black, to try to reduce the corrosion.
Maybe the old muffler has some magnesium in it and that would cause the "smoking".
Magnesium was a good, cheap, filler to aluminum.
I didn't think about that until I read your posting GallopingGhostler.
Like the old "original" Mills engines that were made in England.
Those had to be careful on storing them because after a while they would get a white powdery stuff on the crankcase.
That is why the Mills engines were painted black, to try to reduce the corrosion.
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
I think you have it figured out , and you know once the pitted metal is gone it is gone and all you can do is fill it in as best you can >> Is that Alum. bluing got a temperature range ? For heat of coarse .
getback- Top Poster
-
Posts : 10441
Join date : 2013-01-18
Age : 67
Location : julian , NC
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
getback wrote:I think you have it figured out , and you know once the pitted metal is gone it is gone and all you can do is fill it in as best you can >> Is that Alum. bluing got a temperature range ? For heat of coarse .
It doesn't say anything about a temperature range?
It's two different acids that just discolors the aluminum.
Below are photos taken of the label:
Side Label:
Back Label:
Last edited by sosam117 on Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistakes)
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Enya muffler update --- important --- please read!
A friend of mine (Rod Wolfe) came over to my house for a little work for me to do for him. (about a week ago.)
While he was there, I showed him the two mufflers hat I had and the problems I had with one of them.
As I talked to my friend (that works in a metallurgy lab) and talked to him about the problem I had with the larger Enya muffler compared to the smaller "new" version.
I told him when I used the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black on the older (Enya M603 60 size) "larger" muffler that the muffler was "smoking" a little as I rubbed on the aluminum black, and it seemed that the muffler getting gritty?
Now on the smaller Enya 19X muffler.
The Aluminum Black darkened the muffler the way it was supposed to with no real problems, unlike the Enya M603 muffler.
Rod looked over the two mufflers that were blackened.
He asked "if" I had any original mufflers that were not blackened?
I asked what for?
He'll take them to work and see what the mufflers composition is.
Rod stopped by my house on his way home from work on Friday (09/12/22)
He told me that the "old" Enya M603 muffler had a mix of 68% aluminum, 23% zinc and 9% magnesium.
The smoking effect was the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black acid reacting with the high amount of zinc in the muffler.
That cause the gritty "stuff" to show up on the muffler and farther pitting the surface.
The newer 19X muffler had only 6% zinc and 19% magnesium. and 75% aluminum.
So, Rod told me the best thing clean the muffler to where it looked almost new is to either sand blast it or wire brush it (gently).
He said I'll never get a supper shiny "chrome" finish in these mufflers because of their composition.
And he advised me "NOT" to use the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black on any of those mufflers!
As the "smoke" coming off the muffler is toxic.
While he was there, I showed him the two mufflers hat I had and the problems I had with one of them.
As I talked to my friend (that works in a metallurgy lab) and talked to him about the problem I had with the larger Enya muffler compared to the smaller "new" version.
I told him when I used the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black on the older (Enya M603 60 size) "larger" muffler that the muffler was "smoking" a little as I rubbed on the aluminum black, and it seemed that the muffler getting gritty?
Now on the smaller Enya 19X muffler.
The Aluminum Black darkened the muffler the way it was supposed to with no real problems, unlike the Enya M603 muffler.
Rod looked over the two mufflers that were blackened.
He asked "if" I had any original mufflers that were not blackened?
I asked what for?
He'll take them to work and see what the mufflers composition is.
Rod stopped by my house on his way home from work on Friday (09/12/22)
He told me that the "old" Enya M603 muffler had a mix of 68% aluminum, 23% zinc and 9% magnesium.
The smoking effect was the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black acid reacting with the high amount of zinc in the muffler.
That cause the gritty "stuff" to show up on the muffler and farther pitting the surface.
The newer 19X muffler had only 6% zinc and 19% magnesium. and 75% aluminum.
So, Rod told me the best thing clean the muffler to where it looked almost new is to either sand blast it or wire brush it (gently).
He said I'll never get a supper shiny "chrome" finish in these mufflers because of their composition.
And he advised me "NOT" to use the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black on any of those mufflers!
As the "smoke" coming off the muffler is toxic.
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
That is a good accurate assessment by your friend, sosam117. I got fairly close to a mirror finish with Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish on the old muffler for my .35-III TV, better than the OEM. It is sort of dark, pearl-like. Of course if one wants as manufactured purity in finish, that will never do. But it was certainly an improvement, although not a museum quality (i.e., original) finish.sosam117 wrote:He told me that the "old" Enya M603 muffler had a mix of 68% aluminum, 23% zinc and 9% magnesium. The smoking effect was the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black acid reacting with the high amount of zinc in the muffler. That cause the gritty "stuff" to show up on the muffler and farther pitting the surface.
The newer 19X muffler had only 6% zinc and 19% magnesium. and 75% aluminum. So, Rod told me the best thing clean the muffler to where it looked almost new is to either sand blast it or wire brush it (gently). He said I'll never get a supper shiny "chrome" finish in these mufflers because of their composition.
And he advised me "NOT" to use the Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black on any of those mufflers! As the "smoke" coming off the muffler is toxic.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
-
Posts : 5723
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 70
Location : Clovis NM or NFL KC Chiefs
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Those are extremely odd alloys. So odd they don't seems to exist commercially or anything even remotely similar.
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 415
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Apparently was obsoleted by around the mid 1960's. Perhaps has to do with the equipment and molding techniques of the day, it was easier to cast, obsoleted by improvements by use of better forming equipment and machining / molding techniques, improvements in metallurgy. For example, my early 1950's French made Selmer Beaugnier Vito bari sax, was made of red brass (higher copper alloy content),gkamysz wrote:Those are extremely odd alloys. So odd they don't seems to exist commercially or anything even remotely similar.
My Vito bari before clean-up, red shows it has high copper content.
My Vito bari after clean-up, brass looks normal without corrosion.
in contrast to modern, harder brass used in forming brass musical instruments by machine today. (That tarnishes with more of a brown color than red - other alloy besides copper.) My sax was hand made, the metallurgy was easier to form and bend by hand tooling. (The factory closed its doors in 1970 as they using hand forming techniques could no longer compete against machine formed saxes.) In other words, no one does it this way these days.)
Nonetheless, it is kind of nice to own a little bit of unique Enya history.
Early Enya .29-.40 muffler as received.
Enya muffler on .35-III TV (above left).
Enya muffler on .35-III TV (left underside).
With a little more work, I believe using Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish, I could obtain a mirror-like finish overall on it, not that it is really worth going to such an over-effort.
(There are no photo awards or prizes for Enya's on our Cox Engine Forums.)
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
-
Posts : 5723
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 70
Location : Clovis NM or NFL KC Chiefs
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
That is a nice-looking muffler (before) compared to some of the mufflers I originally started with.
Going to swap meets, you don't really find those nicer looking mufflers, but you find the ones with this "whitish" stuff on it.
Corrosion and pitting.
That is why I tried the blackening process on those "two" mufflers. (not no more!)
And they can be had for a cheaper price:
This is a muffler that I "was" going to be blackened but I'll give it a good brushing with the steel (fine wire) brush.
And maybe, use a buffing wheel on it?
Wish I had a small bead blasting set-up? That would make it look as good as new?
Ken told me that years ago they use to tumble the parts in a vibrating tumbler with ceramic shaped media.
He sent me a photo of the media. Size is approximately 6mm dia. and a length of 15mm.
Going to swap meets, you don't really find those nicer looking mufflers, but you find the ones with this "whitish" stuff on it.
Corrosion and pitting.
That is why I tried the blackening process on those "two" mufflers. (not no more!)
And they can be had for a cheaper price:
This is a muffler that I "was" going to be blackened but I'll give it a good brushing with the steel (fine wire) brush.
And maybe, use a buffing wheel on it?
Wish I had a small bead blasting set-up? That would make it look as good as new?
Ken told me that years ago they use to tumble the parts in a vibrating tumbler with ceramic shaped media.
He sent me a photo of the media. Size is approximately 6mm dia. and a length of 15mm.
sosam117- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1350
Join date : 2016-03-23
Location : Suburb of Chicago, Illinois
Re: Tried and used Birchwood Casey -- Aluminum Black
Lacking bead or stone blasting materials and equipment, I use varying grades of steel wool, coarser for initial cleaning, then finer to polish out scratches. The soaped pads such as Brillo are nice initially as the soap helps to carry away the dust particles by soaking here and there with a clean water bath, similar to wet sanding. Fine brass bristled brushes help to clean up inside sharp crevices such as lettering. Then after going over with fine steel wool when muffler is dry. After, use Mother's.
Of course, I wasn't opting to restore any factory bead blasted finish, just improve what I had.
If there are gouges from say mishandling or crash damage, I carefully dress them with a fine file. It is amazing how surfaces clean up when the burrs are removed. I did that on my OS .40LA R/C prop thrust washer, looked like someone used pliers, cleaned it up to look quite acceptable.
Of course, I wasn't opting to restore any factory bead blasted finish, just improve what I had.
If there are gouges from say mishandling or crash damage, I carefully dress them with a fine file. It is amazing how surfaces clean up when the burrs are removed. I did that on my OS .40LA R/C prop thrust washer, looked like someone used pliers, cleaned it up to look quite acceptable.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
-
Posts : 5723
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 70
Location : Clovis NM or NFL KC Chiefs
Similar topics
» Birchwood-thin plys
» Cox Mufflers with Snout, GONE?
» New Aluminum Backplates
» Aluminum Backplates
» Aluminum piston
» Cox Mufflers with Snout, GONE?
» New Aluminum Backplates
» Aluminum Backplates
» Aluminum piston
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum