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Cox Engine of The Month
Trimming a controline plane
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Trimming a controline plane
what is the procedure,so that the initial flight dosn't go straight,up or straight into the dirt? Here's what I've done...bellcrank neutral,leadouts both out of wingtip same amount...elevator neutral. Problem is I have way more up movement than down!......I have RC trimming down to a science, this,not so much!
OhBee- Platinum Member
- Posts : 698
Join date : 2016-03-23
Age : 73
Location : Minnesota
Re: Trimming a controline plane
Hi OhBee,
Check your handle positioning:
Some people hold a handle like a pistol. That is, the top of the handle gets trimmed to have it closer to the model than the bottom. Basically, the bottom is already "back," so increasing/moving "down" doesn't make a whole lot of movement. It takes effort to hold the handle square to the plane (both lines/lead-outs the same length from centerline). This one got me. Once I recognized it and trimmed it out, I had smoother flights.
Check your lead-outs:
At each lead-out, measure each line from fully pulled one way to wing tip, and pull the other and again measure to wing tip. You want to measure the amount of movement, and then check to see if the midpoint in stroke places the elevator in neutral. Check both lines.
Check your control throw:
Hopefully the model is well sorted out such that an equal pull up causes a reflection of "x" degrees up, and pulling the same down from neutral causes the same deflection of "x"degrees down.
Recognize any inconsistencies, and check for possible adjustments. The hope is that the bellcrank is in neutral, and that both lead-outs are the same length from bellcrank ends. This may not necessarily be the same for a tapered wingtip. But it should be the same from the centerline of the model. Some times the elevator pushrod can be bent to "shorten up" the rod and reposition the relative angle between the bellcrank/model centerline and the elevator.
Also review http://flyinglines.org/mckay.trimming.html
There are.other trimming documents on flyinglines.org.
I hope that makes sense...if not, we can diagram it.
Side note: The Wido Satan was built with no bellcrank limiter stops, so this model will have more travel one way than the other (I seem to remember up having more "up")...but checking the controls with similar line movements (not max travel...say 3/8" from centered) should show similar movement. On that plane, one next rib to the bellcrank platform is the limiter. But I seem to remember cutting a clearance hole in that rib to allow for more up travel.
Check your handle positioning:
Some people hold a handle like a pistol. That is, the top of the handle gets trimmed to have it closer to the model than the bottom. Basically, the bottom is already "back," so increasing/moving "down" doesn't make a whole lot of movement. It takes effort to hold the handle square to the plane (both lines/lead-outs the same length from centerline). This one got me. Once I recognized it and trimmed it out, I had smoother flights.
Check your lead-outs:
At each lead-out, measure each line from fully pulled one way to wing tip, and pull the other and again measure to wing tip. You want to measure the amount of movement, and then check to see if the midpoint in stroke places the elevator in neutral. Check both lines.
Check your control throw:
Hopefully the model is well sorted out such that an equal pull up causes a reflection of "x" degrees up, and pulling the same down from neutral causes the same deflection of "x"degrees down.
Recognize any inconsistencies, and check for possible adjustments. The hope is that the bellcrank is in neutral, and that both lead-outs are the same length from bellcrank ends. This may not necessarily be the same for a tapered wingtip. But it should be the same from the centerline of the model. Some times the elevator pushrod can be bent to "shorten up" the rod and reposition the relative angle between the bellcrank/model centerline and the elevator.
Also review http://flyinglines.org/mckay.trimming.html
There are.other trimming documents on flyinglines.org.
I hope that makes sense...if not, we can diagram it.
Side note: The Wido Satan was built with no bellcrank limiter stops, so this model will have more travel one way than the other (I seem to remember up having more "up")...but checking the controls with similar line movements (not max travel...say 3/8" from centered) should show similar movement. On that plane, one next rib to the bellcrank platform is the limiter. But I seem to remember cutting a clearance hole in that rib to allow for more up travel.
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Trimming a controline plane
That combat trimming reference is good. Something that is mostly overlooked is the differential. If you set your control horn in front or behind the centre of the hinge line, it will give more up or down depending if it is on top or bottom etc. Of course this is pretty much set in stone after it is built, but if you know you want more down, then you can attach the horn forward or aft of the hinge line.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 796
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: Trimming a controline plane
Ya....wido satan had a lot of down when everything else was centered....I adjusted pushrod to even things out, but now have more up than down by a substantial amount! Will have to read through that enough times get it to sink in Jim!.....I dont' want s short "rekitting" flight! Other issue I have is a warped stabilator...a pronouncrd downward cupping!
OhBee- Platinum Member
- Posts : 698
Join date : 2016-03-23
Age : 73
Location : Minnesota
Re: Trimming a controline plane
The throws weren't limited on centers...but it should be centered if you check 1/4" pull for up, and 1/4" for down. This is one that should be first flown on smaller throws. Run the handle with 2" line spacing (or less) to take out the twitchiness.
The slightly crooked stab will fly just fine for round and round. The slight cupping you see...is this the stabilizer sanded more on top than the bottom? That is more apparent on the outboard edges of the stab, but not in the center between the booms. This wasn't a substantial amount of material removed, so it shouldn't negatively affect flight. It was because the stab is two pieces in laminate. If I don't understand, please take a picture and push it via email.
This plane flew several times successfully for me. I just couldn't talk my sons into launching for me. Everything else is solo-flown and stooge-launched. Please keep in mind this was to be a flight trainer. It did loop for me, and fly inverted.
The slightly crooked stab will fly just fine for round and round. The slight cupping you see...is this the stabilizer sanded more on top than the bottom? That is more apparent on the outboard edges of the stab, but not in the center between the booms. This wasn't a substantial amount of material removed, so it shouldn't negatively affect flight. It was because the stab is two pieces in laminate. If I don't understand, please take a picture and push it via email.
This plane flew several times successfully for me. I just couldn't talk my sons into launching for me. Everything else is solo-flown and stooge-launched. Please keep in mind this was to be a flight trainer. It did loop for me, and fly inverted.
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Trimming a controline plane
Oh, and I forgot to mention the easy one...do you have a shelf or horizontal surface about shoulder high?
Place the model on said surface on a pillow. Trap it with another pillow. Hook up a set of 4 foot lines with your control handle. Now you can see the elevator, handle positioning, and make a few adjustments to see what is going on.
Watch for the pistol-grip hold.
Place the model on said surface on a pillow. Trap it with another pillow. Hook up a set of 4 foot lines with your control handle. Now you can see the elevator, handle positioning, and make a few adjustments to see what is going on.
Watch for the pistol-grip hold.
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
OhBee- Platinum Member
- Posts : 698
Join date : 2016-03-23
Age : 73
Location : Minnesota
Re: Trimming a controline plane
Hi Steve,
I see what you are talking about. I wouldn't worry too much about it because it is the same across the whole control surface. If it creates a tad of lift, it can be trimmed out with a bit of "up" which should translate to a bit of "negative lift." Whatever lift it develops "as is" would run the nose down...which isn't a bad thing on a trainer. Besides, it is a lot straighter than my first one 40+ years ago, and now a lot more pretty!
Keep in mind that a lot of what you trim for in RC is missing in CL. Our planes in CL are built to fly straight or to the right to maintain line pull. When they fly up, we are so close we can feel lines pull up so we can add "down."
Remember it flew for me as is, and that it isn't (well, wasn't) supposed to be kept pretty. While it has more than two flights left in it, I wasn't going to be heartbroken if it provided only a few flights. Fly it before you get too attached to it...or before I get too attached. It sure does look good now! Oh, and I caught the boom braces...nice touch!
I see what you are talking about. I wouldn't worry too much about it because it is the same across the whole control surface. If it creates a tad of lift, it can be trimmed out with a bit of "up" which should translate to a bit of "negative lift." Whatever lift it develops "as is" would run the nose down...which isn't a bad thing on a trainer. Besides, it is a lot straighter than my first one 40+ years ago, and now a lot more pretty!
Keep in mind that a lot of what you trim for in RC is missing in CL. Our planes in CL are built to fly straight or to the right to maintain line pull. When they fly up, we are so close we can feel lines pull up so we can add "down."
Remember it flew for me as is, and that it isn't (well, wasn't) supposed to be kept pretty. While it has more than two flights left in it, I wasn't going to be heartbroken if it provided only a few flights. Fly it before you get too attached to it...or before I get too attached. It sure does look good now! Oh, and I caught the boom braces...nice touch!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Trimming a controline plane
Thanks Jim....It'll fly! At this point it needs skis though! ....waiting for spring...AGAIN!
OhBee- Platinum Member
- Posts : 698
Join date : 2016-03-23
Age : 73
Location : Minnesota
Re: Trimming a controline plane
I saw the picture of snow and cat. I can't believe it!
The last few weeks of clean air and cheap gas makes me think there IS something to global warming. The snow/cat picture reinforces that...as does the frigid early am temps we are experiencing in this neck of the woods.
The last few weeks of clean air and cheap gas makes me think there IS something to global warming. The snow/cat picture reinforces that...as does the frigid early am temps we are experiencing in this neck of the woods.
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2022
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Trimming a controline plane
I'm having a hard time connecting a foot of snow in April to global warming! Another ice age yes.
OhBee- Platinum Member
- Posts : 698
Join date : 2016-03-23
Age : 73
Location : Minnesota
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