Blondes, brunettes or red heads?

Ian, the combat for tomorrow also has the fastest speed for a baffle piston engine, so I can only use my baffle designs for that event. The term vintage is very subjective but most of the attendees don't seem to have problems with flying designs up into the 70's. Legendary larry Scarinzi will be present and I just love being with him. My son and Larry have quite a time, Larry is now in his 80's still flying like a mad man. There's no real scheduled matches, I fly matches just because I enjoy seeing these old turkey's in the air. I hope someone can get some decent video. Here's last year, Tom Luciano is a fellow who puts this together and he recently put this video out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkcxeX7jCaY My son is a 3:58 helping Larry Scarinzi with his planes. I'm at 4:52 holding the Half Fast. The Half Fast is what I'm entering in the speed event. I'm pretty close to 95 mph with that old iron on the front.

Thanks Ken - I ask because, over here, vintage combat is becoming more and more popular. At the last contest - there were over 90 entries.

It started really as an "Old Timers" nostalgic event but has now attracted a bigger and bigger following and increased the interest in control line flying.

Why? The rules may seem onerous but they are not. For all the models the plans are freely available, so are kits of parts and complete kits!

The most expensive item is the engine! Obviously, the Oliver Tiger tops the list in terms of expense because of rarity but you can use

The engine shall be a diesel of 3.2 cm3 maximum displacement if constructed with ball/roller races or 3.5 cm3 maximum displacement if constructed with plain
bearing crankshaft. Engines permitted under this definition (any mark or model unless otherwise stated) are as follows:

AK 19 AM 25CS, AM 35CT' MVVS 2.5/1958 TRS & D7 , DC Rapier, ED Racer
Elfin 249, Enya 15D, ETA 15
Frog 249, Oliver Mk 3 Replica, Oliver Tiger Mks. 2,3 ,4
OS 15D Parra T3 (2.5cc), PAW 249, 249 TBR CT 1 & 2
PAW 19D and 19 D, Rivers Silver Streak, Rothwell 250
Russian Oliver Mk 3 Replica, Super Tigre G20/15D, Super Tigre G30
Taifun Orkan T4 (3.2cc), Webra Mach 1 and 2
The Rothwell 320 TBR, PAW 19 TBR, PAW 19 BR and the Oliver Tiger Mk4 19TBR are allowed subject to not being increased in capacity.

The retro fitting of a single ball race in PAW 19 sized plain bearing motors is allowed.
MVVS 15D 2.5cc (Current model, and subject to the following restrictions):
(1) Standard engines only to be used, no tuning allowed.
(2) Standard sized venturi, 3.5mm.
(3) Bearings may be replaced by steel bearings of the same size.
(4) No bushings to bearings, phenolic or ceramic bearings permitted.
(5) The only modifications permitted to the engine is the removal of the exhaust stub, and the positioning of the exhaust port to either side or rear exit.
(6) Prop size is up to the operator, but only nylon props to be used.
(7) These rules apply only to the front induction MVVS 15.
( The rear induction disc valve engine will not be permitted, nor will the use of the MVVS ABC LINERED ENGINE, CONVERTED FROM GLOW.
(b) The engine must be fitted with a domed safety spinner



Some of these motors are still available new and are still being manufactured.

There is a speed restriction and so the motor may not be an advantage.

The list of models allowed can be seen in 4.8.4 here

http://combatflyers.co.uk/2016-contest-rules-section-4-control-line.pdf

Because of the popularity and nostalgia associated with Ollies - there is a dedicated class -- see 4.8.4

Excuse the pun, the rules give  level playing field for everyone. No point in shelling out for super dooper Gary Cooper engines, custom propellers, super lightweight coverings and models.

Too often we see competitive events that need an awful lot of money investing to be competitive. These contests are the exception and open to all comers.

Ian, most of the participants are in their late 60's and 70's. Many of their sons like myself are just continuing tradition. Unfortunately, many are no longer with us or have lost interest. We just want to see the planes take to the air  again. All of us are a big help and support to those old beauties to see them go around a few more times so we don't hassle or criticize. Combat models were never beautiful or painted to such a high level of finish. Some how beauty has been attached to these old birds. They never were beautiful or were they flown like that. Most models were just patchworks of silk scarves or just silk with little to no color.

         Many of out participants have gone to great lengths to do a finish that's breath taking. I'm not that individual, I can do it but why. It takes too long, costs too much and it's going to tear rendering all that work meaningless. I repaired the old Count Clipper with silk but that was a different situation. The old silk shrunk so much that it shattered the 4 ribs internally and that wing is a D tube style wing. Why use a product that essentially works like a boa constrictor. Many of the fellows just go out and tear up the sky reliving the past and I think that's pretty neat as well. Last year a fellow showed up who hadn't flown since the early 60's. It was like riding a bike as he never forgot and that smile was priceless.

As far as engine go, we do try and stick with period correct engines. My FP .20 surely doesn't fit the bill. I use it because it starts easy and the speed is surprisingly spot on for most stock Fox .35's and Mccoy's. Over the past few years I have hand grenaded a few of my Fox's. That doesn't sit too well with me and I keep the nitro as mild as I can. Most here are die hard Fox fans. Lately I switch to the Super Tigers. Larry Scarinzi and Duke Fox designed the Fox .36X's. Brian Gardner has been making ABC piston liners for the .36X engines. I personally feel this is a unfair advantage and when they start pulling those engines out, I have a few tricks up my sleeve as well.

The cast iron clipper did very well today. In fact it was impressive. Speed wise it was impressive and maneuverability was equally impressive. I never thought this boat anchor would do what I saw today. I put a MA 9x6 on the Mccoy and ran the needle in so it was in a steady 2 an let her go. Insides were no problem but outsides were a bit low on the recovery. This thing is a flying tank. My son put it into some squares which made all of us laugh. He had some low level inverted flights which were so low the rudder was hitting the ground. We had a real good time today. We witnessed some honking old time equipment. Ken

You are having too much fun Ken, totally jealous...

Thanks, Ken, for keeping your fleet in such great shape and for supporting combat and the traditions of the sport, making it visible to the rest of us. The pictures, video, and slideshow were a great addition. Redheads, Brunettes & Blondes, hmmm, yeah, they're my type. I think I'd like building and flying planes like those early models. Had I been exposed a couple of decades earlier, my modeling career might look a lot different today. But I'm good with watching from the sideline and occasionally taxing my reflexes with my one little 1/2A combat wing. I really like the mag-pan Clipper, it looks like the kind of tough little plane I can imagine flying. I fly my Li'l satan and pretend like I'm flying fast Lol.

By the way, while we were doing 1/2A Day this weekend, I heard a gawdawful racket coming through the trees up on the grass circle. When I wandered up there to see what was going on, it was Howard Shenton with about ten speed limit planes, wringing them out one after the other. I'm glad to see the guy is really getting his legs back under himself lately. He's apparently still having trouble with balance when he goes high, but he dead-stick landed every one that I saw.

Rusty

Cribbs74 wrote:You are having too much fun Ken, totally jealous...

https://youtu.be/J0jWv0lFqF0

Thanks for turning us on to your fleet Pics. and the video Ken , some really nice looking vintage there ! Those Big engine on combat vintage look cool like a Hemi !~ Your son is a fine looking young man and good to see him involved the way he is . Nothing but FUN !!

Eric, that was very kind of you to say that. Even though that video was from last year, Tom Luciano the fellow responsible for the video just put it out on another forum recently. Tom's father was very popular in the 60's flying and building. I spoke with him for a few minutes Sunday and it was very rewarding. He's up there in age and he enjoys seeing us all build and fly these planes.

I can't take credit for all of the planes I have. Many of the Walter Umland kits I mentioned are the actual planes from Walter's website. My friend and club member Dennis built these planes and I fly them. I had to retrofit my engines into them as Dennis is not much of a Fox fan. Everyone is encouraging me to do a rubbed out dope finish. As much as I would love to do that, I just can't see the point. It's very difficult preventing rips and tears. Repairing is problematic and not always easy especially a wingtip. It does look beautiful when complete. Ken

I can most definitely understand your way of thinking, regarding the finish on a combat-job Ken. Sure it will turn heads.. but it's a combat model.. built for aggressive flight maneuvers against a competitor. Why spend countless hours on a finish.. when every match has the potential to destroy a model? Fly it like you stole it.. and hope you don't break the engine!

Most if not all of the guys build just for nostalgia. My son and I generally fly some very mild matches. Just flying over tough grass can tear it up. In addition to storage at home can also bang stuff up.

Ken do you have a pic of this rubbed out dope finish ? Don't know if I have ever seen this before , Thanks . Eric

Ken Cook wrote:           Most if not all of the guys build just for nostalgia. My son and I generally fly some very mild matches. Just flying over tough grass can tear it up. In addition to storage at home can also bang stuff up.

Ken, what did the combat guys do back in the day when these planes weren't nostalgic, but the best thing for the job? I guess they built continuously, replacing the slag when they weren't taking them on suicide missions? The modern planes y'all fly today can certainly take more licks and be repaired and replaced in a way that was not possible back then.
Rusty

Most of them covered in silk or silkspan. Color really wasn't applied in multiple coats and if so, it was generally trim. Dyed silkspan or silk was a option that was used due to having color and less weight of colored dope. Some of these flyers were essentially putting dope on the model as they were headed out the door. Certain models could certainly take their share of abuse.

If you recall the instructions on most kits it would state 3 coats of clear followed by a color coat or apply clear until the wood shines. I don't think many combat flyers put more than a coat or two of clear on other than attachment coats for covering.

Some of the "Vintage" combat models were almost indestructible - the Dominator was a prime example.

http://www.flyinglines.org/kb.dominator.html

Solid build an covered with nylon and doped. Any old nylon - shirts, blouses ................ whatever you could beg, borrow or steal from the washing line. It was nearly always the engine or the propeller that took the beating!