Re: CEF speed contest Design Discussions

**RknRusty** Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:50 am

roddie wrote:
JPvelo wrote:Interesting article on a contest very similar to this one:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/1028LairdSuperSolution.pdf
That was a great read! That's a super cool bipe! They fly on 8 ft. shorter lines. That would definitely be dizzying... at first anyway...

They're talking 60mph. I was expecting faster than that. I thought I had clocked my Li'l Satan at 71mph, maybe I was mistaken. I need to go back and find that video and re-clock it. I figured for sure this little racer would be at least as fast as that. Those guys were building out of basswood. I hope my balsa model doesn't lunch halfway through the maiden flight.

Rusty

pkrankow Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:40 am

I did catch the basswood part. I am slightly concerned by that as well, but can't do anything about it now!

Phil

getback Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:43 am

RknRusty wrote:
roddie wrote:
JPvelo wrote:Interesting article on a contest very similar to this one:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/1028LairdSuperSolution.pdf
That was a great read! That's a super cool bipe! They fly on 8 ft. shorter lines. That would definitely be dizzying... at first anyway...
They're talking 60mph. I was expecting faster than that. I thought I had clocked my Li'l Satan at 71mph, maybe I was mistaken. I need to go back and find that video and re-clock it. I figured for sure this little racer would be at least as fast as that. Those guys were building out of basswood. I hope my balsa model doesn't lunch halfway through the maiden flight.

Rusty

Sorry Rusty I don't get the LUNCH part I know I am way out of it but don't remember ever hearing that slang [term] before yes that was a sweet articale on the bi really like the way the engine was centered in the fuse , I have a home built bipe I built along time ago 049 would nt pull it so I mounted it with a 09 enya that lit it's fire. I am considering that engine for the stuntman 23 ! Devil

JPvelo Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:28 am

RknRusty wrote:
roddie wrote:
JPvelo wrote:Interesting article on a contest very similar to this one:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/1028LairdSuperSolution.pdf
That was a great read! That's a super cool bipe! They fly on 8 ft. shorter lines. That would definitely be dizzying... at first anyway...
They're talking 60mph. I was expecting faster than that. I thought I had clocked my Li'l Satan at 71mph, maybe I was mistaken. I need to go back and find that video and re-clock it. I figured for sure this little racer would be at least as fast as that. Those guys were building out of basswood. I hope my balsa model doesn't lunch halfway through the maiden flight.

Rusty

Rusty,
This I the site I use to calculate speed:
http://www.flycl.co.uk/control_line_speed_calculator.htm

My satan with a Tee Dee does about 55mph, my clown about 51mph. Both those models are a lot draggier than what we're building now.
The guys in the article are using standard plugs, 15%, and a cox 5x3. That cox prop is a slow prop. Your killer bee with 30%, a high comp head, and an APC 4.75x4 should haul. I hope we see some people hitting the 70's speed wise.

Jim

**RknRusty** Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:45 am

Hey, Getback. "Lunch" is what a drag racing engine can do if a rod is thrown at 10,000 RPM. Just a slang holdover from my good ol' days. It typically involves a serious hot slippery mess on the pavement.

ex.: "Bobby Ray missed second gear and lunched his engine."

I have lunched a Muncie 4 speed transmission, but never an engine. I figure if a balsa plane lunches it might look like that time the baseball pitcher threw a fastball and hit a seagull.

Rusty

roddie Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:24 pm

more dry-fitting... These tanks measure 1/2"W. x 1-1/4"L. x 3/4"H. which works out to .26 oz. or 7.7 cc's. I wouldn't want to have to build a tank much smaller... it has been a challenge, but so far I've gotten 4 tank assemblies out of one 4" x 5" $3 sheet of .008" Tin.

speed - CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 9 11-30-10

speed - CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 9 11-30-10

**RknRusty** Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:36 pm

Beautiful. I hope the soldering goes well.

roddie Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:33 pm

RknRusty wrote:Beautiful. I hope the soldering goes well.

Thank You Rusty. I hope so too... I'm fitting the joints as tight as possible... "good enough" won't cut-it there.

roddie Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:10 pm

pkrankow wrote:I did catch the basswood part. I am slightly concerned by that as well, but can't do anything about it now!

Phil

Phil, from the research I've done, and the advice I've received, as long as you have proper outboard tip weight... along with raking the lead-outs back... to a point where; when the finished model is suspended by them (hanging...) the model's nose points a "few" degrees down from level. There should be NO (zero) offset angle on either the engine or rudder... (doing so would only induce drag)

Try to make the provisions for adjustable lead-outs; if you haven't already. This will help a LOT with line tension; both when flying and R.O.G. launching.

Roddie

OVERLORD Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:50 am

roddie wrote:I have a Microflame "Cub". It uses Co2 size butane cartridges... I've had the thing for 25 years... and have never used it!

Are you building gear-blocks like what I did on mine?

I found that these little burners are good for soldering 'cause your metal heats very quickly. Then, when applying the solder, keep your flame away from it.

For the landing gear, I will try to make them from "L"-shaped aluminium profile and bolt the wheels to that - That's the idea. Yesterday, I glued the 2 wing sheets together with wood glue and that turned out rather well. While drying, I clamped them between 2 straight pieces of wood in a vice and let it dry over night.

Lieven

pkrankow Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:24 am

OVERLORD wrote:
roddie wrote:I have a Microflame "Cub". It uses Co2 size butane cartridges... I've had the thing for 25 years... and have never used it!

Are you building gear-blocks like what I did on mine?

I found that these little burners are good for soldering 'cause your metal heats very quickly. Then, when applying the solder, keep your flame away from it.

For the landing gear, I will try to make them from "L"-shaped aluminium profile and bolt the wheels to that - That's the idea. Yesterday, I glued the 2 wing sheets together with wood glue and that turned out rather well. While drying, I clamped them between 2 straight pieces of wood in a vice and let it dry over night.

Lieven

I wish you better luck than my recent fuselage lamination with yellow wood glue...first it mildewed (my basement was unusually wet the week I glued it up) then I bleached it and the layers delaminated in spectacular fashion.

I used fresh wood and epoxy for the rebuild. The wood is much heavier than you are using, as I am building a couple Flite Streaks for some OS25LAs

I also looked at basswood at the store yesterday. I'm not worried anymore, there isn't much difference between basswood and medium balsa.

Phil

JPvelo Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:34 am

OVERLORD wrote:
roddie wrote:I have a Microflame "Cub". It uses Co2 size butane cartridges... I've had the thing for 25 years... and have never used it!

Are you building gear-blocks like what I did on mine?

I found that these little burners are good for soldering 'cause your metal heats very quickly. Then, when applying the solder, keep your flame away from it.

For the landing gear, I will try to make them from "L"-shaped aluminium profile and bolt the wheels to that - That's the idea. Yesterday, I glued the 2 wing sheets together with wood glue and that turned out rather well. While drying, I clamped them between 2 straight pieces of wood in a vice and let it dry over night.

Lieven

I made my horizontal stab/elevator and vertical stab out of 2 plys of 1/32 balsa sandwiched with lite fiberglass. It's a little heavy but I think these little planes will tend to build nose heavy. I wanted to add durability because these things may have rather "exciting" landings.

Jim

OVERLORD Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:38 am

When I looked at the wing this evening, I noticed that it starts to take the shape of a giant propeller; and it's a pusher!

Lieven

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:25 pm

I started off intending to make it smaller than the max 12", but after fiddling and shaping, it took up the whole ruler. It's not shaped perfectly like a P-51 D, the top of the forward fuse has a fatter curve, but I think some proper sanding will fix that. And this will do as a profile template.
speed - CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 9 Wp_20117

speed - CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 9 Wp_20117

speed - CEF speed contest Design Discussions - Page 9 Missrj12

OVERLORD Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:59 pm

Looking good Rusty! (the length is 12'' MIN)

roddie Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:02 pm

RknRusty wrote:I started off intending to make it smaller than the max 12", but after fiddling and shaping, it took up the whole ruler. It's not shaped perfectly like a P-51 D, the top of the forward fuse has a fatter curve, but I think some proper sanding will fix that. And this will do as a profile template.

Rusty... MINIMUM LENGTH is 12"... as measured from the engines "drive-plate face" rearward. Don't build it too short!!

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Minimum 12". Okay, DUH! I even had a printout of the rules right there. Man what a doofus. Looks like I hit it right on the mark then.

Rusty the walking fog bank.

getback Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:53 pm

RknRusty wrote:Hey, Getback. "Lunch" is what a drag racing engine can do if a rod is thrown at 10,000 RPM. Just a slang holdover from my good ol' days. It typically involves a serious hot slippery mess on the pavement.

ex.: "Bobby Ray missed second gear and lunched his engine."

I have lunched a Muncie 4 speed transmission, but never an engine. I figure if a balsa plane lunches it might look like that time the baseball pitcher threw a fastball and hit a seagull.

Rusty

THANKS got it$ bee ing the mokanic I am we always called it puking!! but anyway I think your right about the seagull and baseball theory Flying

thanks again!!

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:32 pm

getback wrote: THANKS got it$ bee ing the mokanic I am we always called it puking!! but anyway I think your right about the seagull and baseball theory thanks again!!

I think I actually got the expression from Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins, if you remember him.

Rusty

dckrsn Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:30 pm

The cigar, Grumpy's Toy, the Monza with the
headers dumping out of the front dog legs.
I remember Bill Jenkins.
If I'm not mistaken, he was tight with Keith Black.
That was racing.
Bob

roddie Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:44 pm

My buddy that helped me build my V8 Monza 30 years ago (he still has his Corvette powered "327" V8 pro-stock Vega) used to make reference to "lunching a motor"... brought back memories.

**RknRusty** Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:46 pm

dckrsn wrote:The cigar, Grumpy's Toy, the Monza with the
headers dumping out of the front dog legs.
I remember Bill Jenkins.
If I'm not mistaken, he was tight with Keith Black.
That was racing.
Bob

Oh yeah, I had a centerfold on my wall of Grumpy's Toy lifting the front wheels off the ground and the slicks wrinkling. I also had a centerfold of a red haired Penthouse Pet. Both were exhilarating to stare at and dream. Jimi Hendrix, Alvin Lee and Kim Simmonds too, but not so much in a dreamy way.

roddie Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:29 pm

RknRusty wrote:
dckrsn wrote:The cigar, Grumpy's Toy, the Monza with the
headers dumping out of the front dog legs.
I remember Bill Jenkins.
If I'm not mistaken, he was tight with Keith Black.
That was racing.
Bob
Oh yeah, I had a centerfold on my wall of Grumpy's Toy lifting the front wheels off the ground and the slicks wrinkling. I also had a centerfold of a red haired Penthouse Pet. Both were exhilarating to stare at and dream. Jimi Hendrix, Alvin Lee and Kim Simmonds too, but not so much in a dreamy way.

Oh yea...

**RknRusty** Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:08 am

roddie wrote:
RknRusty wrote:
dckrsn wrote:The cigar, Grumpy's Toy, the Monza with the
headers dumping out of the front dog legs.
I remember Bill Jenkins.
If I'm not mistaken, he was tight with Keith Black.
That was racing.
Bob
Oh yeah, I had a centerfold on my wall of Grumpy's Toy lifting the front wheels off the ground and the slicks wrinkling. I also had a centerfold of a red haired Penthouse Pet. Both were exhilarating to stare at and dream. Jimi Hendrix, Alvin Lee and Kim Simmonds too, but not so much in a dreamy way.
Oh yea...

[flashTen Years After Video[/flash]

That was one of the first songs in my Song of the Week Signature. I should call it song of the month. I always wonder if anyone listens to those.
We used to have some excellent homegrown Blues in Columbia. It's kind of tapered off lately... or maybe I don't keep up with the nightlife like I used to.

Sorry about the hijack, Jim.

Rusty

JPvelo Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:54 am

pkrankow wrote:I shot white onto mine today.

I am trying Minwax polycrylic as a sealer/base. Put on 2 coats, washed with denatured alcohol and a "scrubby" sponge (surprisingly effective at removing the excess polycrylic, 24 hours old) However I probably should have put another coat or 2 on and stripped it down again.

1 coat grey primer, sanded, 1 coat white. In a couple hours it will go to the basement to cure.

I think the elevator is getting Monokote as an expedient.

Phil

Phil, how is that polycrylic finish working out? I am curious to try it on the mouse racer that I am building with my son.

Jim

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