On Veteran's Day I believe this appropriate

batjac wrote:I didn't think of myself much as a Veteran while I was in or after I got out.  You don't think about it while you're in, because everyone around you is in also, and serving is a daily thing you take for granted.  After I got out, I'd always been surround by ex-service members of the various Forces, so it was still no big deal, everyone served.  I was always proud of my service, at times even prideful.  But it was just what we did.  Now that I'm getting older and am surrounded by younger guys who never served and don't understand what it is to serve, I'm more conscious of the separation.  The more young people with today's entitlement mentality that I'm exposed to, the more I see the distinction between my generation of service, and today's generation of apathy.  Not saying that all youngsters are slackers, it's just that I don't see the desire to serve, or the pride in Country that we had.  So, I feel more a Veteran now than I ever have before.

A big Hooah!, Oo-rah!, Aye-Aye!, and... well... whatever you wimpy, land-locked Air Force guys yell to each other, for your individual service.  Good job, Guys!

The Veteran Mark

Well said Vet Mk I!

From Vet Mk II

One of the positive aspects of military service is that it strengthens to common bond between us a nation of many ethnicities cultures.  Military discipline is, at first, difficult to endure untill one sees it's purpose, working as a team rather than an indivual.

Call it "brainwashing" if you will.  I call it a practical neccessity because how esle can a "team" function and still accomplish a mission?  The implications for life in general are unmistakable.

SD

All good stuff boys but praps we have it nailed by calling it Remembrance Day
I know (Pearl Harbour not withstanding) it never really directly impacted
American civilians but here in the old world it did.

John Goddard wrote:All good stuff boys but praps we have it nailed by calling it Remembrance Day
I know (Pearl Harbour not withstanding) it never really directly impacted
American civilians but here in the old world it did.

John:

There were something like 2,500 civilians killed at Pearl Harbor and many more wounded.

Pearl initated th thostilities That lead to WWII.

Want evidence?

SuperDave

SuperDave wrote:

John Goddard wrote:All good stuff boys but praps we have it nailed by calling it Remembrance Day
I know (Pearl Harbour not withstanding) it never really directly impacted
American civilians but here in the old world it did.

John:

There were something like 2,500 civilians killed at Pearl Harbor and many more wounded.

Pearl initated th thostilities That lead to WWII.

Want evidence?

SuperDave

Sorry Dave I thought that's what I had written?

Pearl Harbour has always really been portrayed to the British as a military base and that is why many of us don't associate it with civilian deaths.

2,402 Americans killed and 1,282 wounded. A horrible act and the start of the American entrance to a World War that started on 1st September 1939 for the British.

This is always overshadowed by the civilian deaths in Britain during the period known as the "Blitz". (This is not to be taken as a critiscm or comment but as a reason for what can appear as a lack of respect but is a British way of not expressing feeling or sympathy - "Stiff Upper Lip").

The Blitz (from German, "lightning") is the phrase used in English to describe the period of sustained strategic bombing of the United Kingdom by Germany during the Second World War.

Between 7 September 1940 and 21 May 1941 there were major aerial raids (attacks in which more than 100 tonnes of high explosives were dropped) on 16 British cities. Over a period of 267 days (almost 37 weeks), London was attacked 71 times, Birmingham, Liverpool and Plymouth eight times, Bristol six, Glasgow five, Southampton four, Portsmouth three, and there was also at least one large raid on another eight cities. This was a result of a rapid escalation starting on 24 August 1940, when night bombers aiming for RAF airfields drifted off course and accidentally destroyed several London homes, killing civilians, combined with Churchill's immediate response of bombing Berlin.

Starting on 7 September 1940, London was bombed by the Luftwaffe for 57 consecutive nights. More than one million London houses were destroyed or damaged, and more than 40,000 civilians were killed, almost half of them in London. Ports and industrial centres outside London were also heavily attacked; the major Atlantic sea port of Liverpool was the most heavily bombed city outside London, suffering nearly 4,000 dead. Other ports including Bristol, Cardiff, Hull, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Southampton, and Swansea were also targeted, as were the industrial cities of Birmingham, Belfast, Coventry, Glasgow and Manchester. Birmingham and Coventry were heavily targeted because of the Spitfire and tank factories in Birmingham and the many munitions factories in Coventry; the city centre of Coventry was almost completely destroyed.

The bombing did not achieve its intended goals of demoralising the British into surrender or significantly damaging their war economy. The eight months of bombing never seriously hampered British production, and the war industries continued to operate and expand. The Blitz did not facilitate Operation Sea Lion, the planned German invasion of Britain.


I should also mention that this did not stay "one sided" - in July 1943 the German city of Hamburg alone suffered 42,000 casualties following allied bombing.

World War II was not called a world war without good reason. The estimated death toll in World War II ranges from approximately 60 to 85 million, making it the deadliest war in world history in absolute terms of total dead but not in terms of deaths relative to the world population. World War I beats that. The higher figure of 85 million includes deaths from war-related disease and famine. Civilians killed total from 38 to 55 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

Remembrance day is a solemn ceremonial event held throughout Britain. As I have mentioned before, the only year where a British Serviceman hasn't been killed in action is 1967. We take remembrance day seriously and include allies in our thoughts.

Ian:

Thought you'd mention the inspirational leadership of Winston Churchill:

"All we have to offer is blood, sweat and tears." - 1940

SD

SuperDave wrote:Ian:

Thought you'd mention the inspirational leadership of Winston Churchill:

"All we have to offer is blood, sweat and tears." - 1940

SD

His wording was more than appropriate for a country at war.

To Inspire

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

To Thank

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few", referring to the ongoing efforts of the Royal Air Force pilots who were at the time fighting the Battle of Britain, the pivotal air battle with the German Luftwaffe with Britain expecting a German invasion.

He was also capable of

“I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.”

How easily the wisdom of our forefathers is dismissed thinking they lived in the past.

Though it's been expressed many ways the recurring cycles of human event is unmistakeable.

We are but voyagers on a journey; why not learn from those who have gone before?

SD

Steve:

Not all the casualties at Pearl were military as the Japanese bombings extended across the island of Oahu including Hickam Field. Pearl is a navy base located on an island that includes a significant civilian residential areas and population.

2,500 civilian causalities IS an estimate rather than an established fact. How many were cremated in the resulting fires can only be estimated.

SD

Steve:

Though I'm retired high school history teacher with thirty years in classroom I don't fixate of precise numbers and dates but rather approximations and chronologies. Why not?

Because the later is more valueable to the student than the former.

Want examples?

SD

Of course history kinda forgot the many other places the Japanese attacked on the same date
as well.