Me and the Bean (progress!)

Your colors still look nice, traditional Bean scheme.
I can't think of what might be wrong. Flying across center is pretty radical. Whatever causes it to slack from time to time is probably the same thing. The engine offset is obviously plenty, judging by the picture. What about the up/down thrust angle, don't forget about that. If you can eyeball everything straight, maybe something is causing drag on the inboard side. Loose or peeling covering? Do you fly it with the same lines as the others? It seems like too light wingtip weight would affect it the same in either direction. Are the wingtips inline with the LE? Mine pointed down slightly because I over shrunk the covering on the bottom. This sounds goofy but if you have a backwards prop, you could run the engine in the other direction and see if it's different.

I was thinking about how, in general you have outside loop problems. You added plywood to the wingtips. Anywhere else? Maybe the planes are too heavy for the wing area. Outside loops would have exaggerated problems with that because the fuse has more drag on on the top side that could exacerbate overloaded wing issues. It doesn't take much weight to be overweight, and the lift will just not be able to handle it.

Here are some suggestions.
1. Try adding Weight to the out board wing tip. 2. Make sure you have enough rudder offset. 3. And this has happened to me in the past, but check to make sure you don't have any washout or warping in the wing or wingtips. Washout or warping can have an aileron effect causing the lines to stay tight when right side up but cause line slack when inverted. 4. Make sure the wing is centered in the fuse. 5. Check all of your thrust angles. And 6. Make sure you perform your maneuvers with the wind blowing at your back.

Hope these suggestions help.

Shawn

Nevermind.......

https://i.imgur.com/K80QK.jpg



I think I am going to cut down the nose and make it like the original version. I am also going to add some doublers.

This is getting pretty frustrating

Still not ready to give up though.

Ah Crap Crap Crap. Go ahead and tell us about it.

You know what you need... a Baby Flite Streak. You know what to watch out for at every step now. Big fat wing that stays in the air. Build light, as opposed to crash resistant, per Ken. It took me about 6 weeks to build. You'll fly like a pro.

Rusty,

I never did do ply wingtips. It was a suggestion that I didn't do. I did do bracework though.

I have no rudder offset whatsoever, same lines, everything appears straight to the naked eye. Maybe it's the tip weight. It certainly doesn't pull hard on the lines like the baby clown. Except maybe in level flight.......

I just don't know..... I'll look it over again.

My Bean was always a bit of a wanderer too. Not as much as yours though. I did plenty of back-stepping with it. It was my first built up wing and I didn't fully understand everything critical about that at the time. Now that I'm rebuilding it I'm pleased to find that the wing is straight and symmetrical. I think repairs upon repairs became its main downfall.

Yeah maybe a BFS is the ticket.. Still though these things never would have sold way back when if they flew like crap. Even today an original Bean will cost you $50-75 on Ebay. Must be a reason for that, I am going to get this right or die trying.

cribbs74 wrote:Nevermind.......


I think I am going to cut down the nose and make it like the original version. I am also going to add some doublers.

This is getting pretty frustrating

Still not ready to give up though.

Ouch! Sorry to see that. The only J.B.'s I have ever built were the original C.G. kit's which flew great and I have thought about building the Brodak version a few times. So the nose is longer on the Brodak version? Any other differences?

Not really,

Mostly just the nose and landing gear assy mounting. The Brodak version builds very nose heavy. I have an original wrapped kit too. Haven't built it yet. Figured I would mess this one up and fly the real bean when I know what I am doing.

That and no plastic canopy.....

Ron

Just a thought Ron and bear in mind my lack of C/L experience....
But why not try gluing a little balsa or card trim tab to the fin
To give some rudder offset. If it don't work,nothing ventured.
But as a two minute add on it might just cure it.

John Goddard wrote:Just a thought Ron and bear in mind my lack of C/L experience....
But why not try gluing a little balsa or card trim tab to the fin
To give some rudder offset. If it don't work,nothing ventured.
But as a two minute add on it might just cure it.

John,

There is a debate about rudder offset. Supposedly engine offset and tip weight is all that is needed. I have heard arguments on both sides.

My Baby Clown has none yet flies like a dream.

Mine didn't come out nose heavy, I added 2 or 3 grams up front. The nose is only longer for the beam mount option. If you want radial mount, it shows you where to cut it off. It should balance the same either way.

RknRusty wrote:Mine didn't come out nose heavy, I added 2 or 3 grams up front. The nose is only longer for the beam mount option. If you want radial mount, it shows you where to cut it off. It should balance the same either way.

My kit was different Rusty, it had original plans from the real Goldberg model and all it had was that plastic mount thing. It didn't have the cutouts for the beam mount. I think it was an early Brodak kit. It didn't even have instructions.

No matter as I fixed it. Only problem now is how am I going to remove the big chunk of lead I epoxied in the tail?

https://i.imgur.com/sWGtq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/rIsHq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/o8HfK.jpg

cribbs74 wrote:

RknRusty wrote:Mine didn't come out nose heavy, I added 2 or 3 grams up front. The nose is only longer for the beam mount option. If you want radial mount, it shows you where to cut it off. It should balance the same either way.

My kit was different Rusty, it had original plans from the real Goldberg model and all it had was that plastic mount thing. It didn't have the cutouts for the beam mount. I think it was an early Brodak kit. It didn't even have instructions.

No matter as I fixed it. Only problem now is how am I going to remove the big chunk of lead I epoxied in the tail?

https://i.imgur.com/rIsHq.jpg

Ron: from your picture it looks like it would be easy to dril out a little lead with a 1/16inch drill bit, check CG, continue until CG is correct. you could always save the chips of lead and remelt if you needed more lead some day. happydad

Hey, good idea!

Epoxy will let go quickly with the heat of a soldering iron too if you need to pick and dig. Is it not balancing at 1 inch back from the LE?

Not entirely sure, so far it's just a little tail heavy, but I still need to wrap the nose and paint. I am preparing for it though seeing as I took more than 1" off the nose. Good idea on the heat. Between your's and Happydad's suggestion I should be able to dig it out if needed.

Ron

Ok,

Just finished the bean rework. A quick update on what I found, The elevator was fine visually, but when you gave it full up or full doen the split tail was working independantly. The little balsa brace from Brodak wasn't up to the task so I removed it and cut a V shaped piece of thin ply like the original kit and epoxied it into place. Problem solved.

Also since I shortened the nose it was indeed tail heavy. Rusty the heat trick worked great!!!!! I started to try and melt the lead out as Happydad suggested and I noticed the epoxy (or castor) was bubbling around the weight, so I grabbed the needle nose pliers and it pulled right out!

I weighed the piece of lead and it was .32 oz yikes!!! After I trimmed some of it away it balanced very slightly nose heavy with only .15 oz of lead.

AUW for the entire Bean is now 5.8 oz.

Looks better too in my opinion

Thanks guys!

https://i.imgur.com/5EKRq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/oSHIj.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ZqzKy.jpg

cribbs74 wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/ZqzKy.jpg

That most certainly was your reason for coming into the circle. It looks like it was never busted, really good work. I would hate to have to race you in a build.

As I frequently say, fly with only a sip of fuel for your shakedown flights. Get her trimmed, flying right in both directions, look at the shape of both sides of your 8s before you cut loose and get wild. Keep us posted.

Thanks Rusty,

I am going to give it a go today sometime. Hopefully this fixed my problem.

Well crap.....it didn't work. Same darn thing. I come up for a loop it goes inverted cuts across the circle line, lines catch and it finishes out the loop. Very close to the ground I might add.

Maybe it it outboard tip low as Ken said. The wings and tail are straight so I don't know what else it could be. It's still intact for now.

Guess it's time to rig up Rusty's bladder and fly the clown again.

Ron

Something strange is up with that plane. Plenty of power and 35' lines, right? Is it fast and tight in the flats? No broken ribs or cracked main pieces under the cover that could be flexing under the stress of a climb?

RknRusty wrote:Something strange is up with that plane. Plenty of power and 35' lines, right? Is it fast and tight in the flats? No broken ribs or cracked main pieces under the cover that could be flexing under the stress of a climb?

Your darn tootin it's strange. 35' lines and that wing is tight and straight. I was twisting it and it would barely move. Just flew it again 5 mins ago same darn thing. What kills me it's actually worse than when I first flew it.

On level runs it's pulls nice and tight. Give it up elevator it climbs flips on it's back shoots across the circle with slack lines and then snaps doen and finishes the loop.

Tip weight is 3 pennies. Maybe the tip weight is wrong. Maybe it needs that big chunk of steel that came with the kit.

Ron