Ever tried a Tee Dee carb on a Medallion?

I got back out of bed because I can't quit thinking about airplanes.
The Medallion carb will work well on a Tee Dee if you want to use suction fuel feed. Or so they say over at at Stuka Stuntworks. Tee Dees are better suited for one type of pressure or another. I like to use pressureless balloons to feed the Medallion. That should do the trick on your combination. I'll measure a Tee Dee venturi for you Wednesday afternoon.

Rusty, I have the Tee Dee on a Combat Kitten. I'm not on pressure and I regret not setting the plane up to be used on pressure. The Kitten is a bit larger than the Satan. I've never had the engine work to the capacity that bladder would allow. This is why tanks and wings don't get along. I've tried crank pressure, uniflow, and many other options. I'm used to flying fast wings so it certainly doesn't seem to be a wild ride but I'm also on 42' lines center of plane center of handle. I would think the TD is going to be lighter than the RR-1. I could be wrong on that as I don't have one to weigh. I would certainly try to make the plane a bit nose heavy at first then remove weight. I see no reason why the Medallion wouldn't work with the TD housing and KK needle. I was using a Dave Brown mount but the mount kept breaking. I went through 3 of them. I drilled a through hole for a 2-56 screw and came back on the other side to counter bore a flat on the angled portion of the mount. This allowed a washer and lock not to sit flat and parallel to the bolt. Vibrations would always break the mount through the center of the hole. My next thought is to drill the mount and tap the composite for 2-56 threads. Ken

Ken, this is the mount I have

Is that a Dave Brown mount?

Weight-wise, you're right, a Tee Dee weighs 1.5oz and a Black Widow weighs 2.2oz. The RR1 might weigh more. Do you think it would adversely affect the stunt performance if I were to extend the motor mount with plywood? The extension might make up the weight difference. I could tack it all together for balancing until I get the length right.

I expect to be flying on 40' lines. I've checked and I think my field can safely accommodate that.

Rusty, that mount you have is a very good mount. The Dave Brown mounts are real inexpensive.http://www.dbproducts.com/store/cfmm.htm I use them more for convenience and the fact that they do break easy on impact usually saving the model. I would certainly try to get the plane to balance at the firewall now. If that isn't conceivable, I would try and move it out forward. My feelings are that if the engine gets out there too far, it certainly is going to affect turning. That mount is going to add a touch of weight as well.

I always wanted to make a brass spinner for Cox engines identical to the aluminum for this purpose. This is where experimenting comes into play. Ken

Ken Cook wrote: Rusty, I have the Tee Dee on a Combat Kitten. I'm not on pressure and I regret not setting the plane up to be used on pressure. The Kitten is a bit larger than the Satan. I've never had the engine work to the capacity that bladder would allow. This is why tanks and wings don't get along. I've tried crank pressure, uniflow, and many other options...

You may benefit from a Medallion carb on your Tee Dee. It probably draws on suction way better than the Tee Dee carb. It might perk it up to near full power. I have had good luck with pressureless party balloons feeding my Medallion, like in these pictures:

Rusty, I've never tried it but one of our senior members in the club has a great running TD with the Medallion carb body on a Veco Scout. My Combat Kitten drove me over the edge. It really is the tank. In order for the tank to work properly, it really needs to be behind the engine directly. I have it mounted outboard and this is causing the fuel to go out and then have to go left towards the fuel inlet. It creates a lean situation automatically. You combine this problem with a plane that turns rapidly, you now have a plane that doesn't work. If I run it richer, it pretty much defeats the purpose.

This is why bladder works superior to tanks. I do have a ready to go Medallion that I could try. I did try a Norvel .049 and wasn't overly impressed as once again, the tank was being problematic. I want to put a bladder tube internally in this plane. It was suggested to me on here to install a cigar tube for a bladder compartment. I thought that was a pretty cool idea. Ken

I never could find a cigar tube that was wide enough. But I did smoke a great Macanudo while I was searching.

Ken/Rusty,
If you can find one, try the large heavy prop spinner off a Cox AT-6 RTF plane.It weighs 10.1 grams vs. the Tee Dee spinner weight of 1.3 grams. It is stud mounted and has a hex flange for ease in tightening plus the offsetting weight for better C/L balance. They were very popular with C/L flyers.....Steve

Ken Cook wrote: Rusty, that mount you have is a very good mount. The Dave Brown mounts are real inexpensive.http://www.dbproducts.com/store/cfmm.htm I use them more for convenience and the fact that they do break easy on impact usually saving the model. I would certainly try to get the plane to balance at the firewall now. If that isn't conceivable, I would try and move it out forward. My feelings are that if the engine gets out there too far, it certainly is going to affect turning. That mount is going to add a touch of weight as well.

I always wanted to make a brass spinner for Cox engines identical to the aluminum for this purpose. This is where experimenting comes into play. Ken

Thanks Malibu, I will commence searching. I didn't know such a thing existed. That's the best solution. I have one of the heavy spinner lugs Bernie sells, but it's only 7 grams. I'll get it figured out before I rush into modifying anything. I caused myself a world of grief changing from a Black Widow to a Tee Dee on my Stuntman23 chopper and royally screwed up the aerodynamics. In fact I could use one of those heavy spinners for it.

Here's a very good article on trimming a control line combat plane.
http://flyinglines.org/mckay.trimming.html
The more I read, I realize I better be really careful changing what the Satan was designed for. I might just leave the RR1 on it and settle for 90 second flights. I can build a new one designed for another power plant. I have more engines than planes anyway. It seemed like a good idea for a brief moment.

The Satan and the Kitten are great little planes for Cox reedies. The problem with them is that there wing is really small. In order to get the true performance from the TD the plane needs to be built around the engine. Rich Von Lopez did just that for combat enthusiasts in the mid 70's. Planes like the Lil Matador really are gems . The design is just superior to the older classed models. The Lil Matador has a 27" wingspan which is large considering the Satan span. This really helps. The Satan for instance really wants to stall when flown hard. THis is a plane certainly on my to do list of 1/2 A builds. Ken

Just another one of my typical wild haired Rusty ideas, better left alone. The baby Streak is 27" and I think I remember writing I felt like I had just flown my first plane that wasn't a toy. Like you said, built for the right engine. So I should be concentrating on finding the right rides for my Norvel .061 and my MP Jet. My Tee Dees and RR1 already have good jobs. The only engine I have without a good job, other than a bucket full of Bees, is my hotrod Medallion.
[/crazyidea]

Rusty, there are some extremely neat planes out there for both the Norvel .061 and the Medallion. I favor them both . The Brodak Pathfinder was unlike any plane I ever flew in 1/2 A. I didn't build the one I had. Mine was given to me and it used to hang from the ceiling of a hobby shop that is now long gone. It looked good but it had some control issues that I wasn't happy with. I can certainly say without a doubt though, the plane needs lines from 45' -50'. I really just didn't care for the appearance of the plane. There's also a lot of parts to the wing of this plane.

I'm also a fan of Dick Sarpolus. Dick designs many control line birds with sheet wings. After flying them, you really are quite surprised to see how well they fly. These planes are typically quite large and a Tee Dee is recommended. Dick has the 1/2A Nobler which is quite impressive and I'm certain would do well with the hopped up Medallion. He was a fan of warbirds as well and made many designs of the large sheet wing profiles: Mig 15, F-86, Corsair F4U. Black Hawk kitted some of these models for a while. I have so many kits and plans, I wish I knew how to post a plan on here. I have some in a PDF and I don't quite know how to transfer the PDF to the forum. Ken

RknRusty wrote:...I'd like to try the Medallion first since it should be a little tamer(even though I have a hi perf cylinder on it), and I was wondering if anyone had tried a Tee Dee carb assembly on a Medallion. That would allow me to use a pressure bladder to feed it.

Or I could go straight to the Tee Dee, but I'm sure that would be a handful. Any of you guys ever tried either option on a Li'l Satan?

The following comments are speculation. I have not tried switching intakes.

The Medallion has a small crankshaft intake and a single bypass port. They were designed for easier handling and the power of a sport engine. It runs well with suction feed.

The Tee Dee has a larger intake and two bypass ports to allow it to supply more air and fuel to the upper cylinder for more power and higher RPM. The carb assembly runs on suction but better on pressure. It is a little more "sensitive" to handling.

It would seem to me by putting the TD venturi on a Medallion, handling would suffer because you are trying to shove more air and fuel through a smaller hole in the crankshaft. Since you are using a two bypass cylinder that should work the same except your bypass rate is again limited by the smaller crankshaft hole.

OTOH, using a Medallion intake housing on a Tee Dee may increase suction and allow you great performance on a vented tank.

Bottom line, it you are using a pressure tank go for the whole TeeDee. Yes, it WILL be a handfull (of fun)!

If you are not competing you can go to longer lines.

George