Vintage Vornado fan project

**Admin** Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:42 am

Last weekend was the Back To The 50's car show, one of the largest classic car shows (featuring cars 1964 and older) in the country. On the last day of the show, they always hold a swap meet...that's where this followed me home:

The paint is chipped and someone scratched "TOP" into the top of the cowl. I presume someone took it apart and wanted to remember what side was top...scratching it into the paint must've made more sense than using a marker, or a piece of tape...or even scratching it into the bottom where it would go unseen... Despite that, there are no dents anywhere that I could see. It will need a set of new special slotted rubber grommets for the rear cone as the originals have become deformed.

No line cord, just wires dangling out the back of the motor, but it had a sticker on it saying that the motor works. The original factory gray rubber zip cord used on most of these old Vornado fans rotted off them decades ago, so almost every one of these you see out there today has since had it's cord replaced to some extent.

The fan is also missing it's switch and the low speed choke coil (and coil mount which also acts as a cover for the wires under the base). Burnt out choke coils are fairly common on these Vornado fans. Either the fan was allowed to run on "low" with a gummed up motor which overheated it's choke coil, or the original headwire (between the motor and base) shorted out after the insulation began to fail, taking the choke coil out with it.

Finding a replacement choke is not going to be easy, however I should be able to come up with an alternative. While digging for a ceiling fan speed controller I had "somewhere around here", I thought "why not use a capacitor?". I dug out a set of motor run capacitors and clip leads. 7.5µF is too low, the blades turn very slowly, and 10µF is too high, the fan runs about as fast as it does on "high".

I already have a fan identical to this which was originally my grandparent's, as some of you may remember, it kicked my ass here. A model 16C3-1.

Underside of the identical fan I already owned.

I measured the current draw of my first fan on "low" with it's factory choke coil, measured about 650 mA. Additionally, I compared both fans on "high" and both read very close at just over 700 mA.

Current draw of the identical fan I already owned on "low" speed.

By placing a set of 45µF caps in parallel to get 90µF and then placing a 10µF cap in series, that should get me 9µF (9.45µF measured). With 9.45µF in the circuit, the motor draws just over 600mA and the speed is about the same as that of the fan with the original coil. The coil should be able to be replaced with a 7.5µF and 2µF film cap wired in parallel, mounted under the base.

Current draw of the "new" fan with 9.45µF in series with the motor.

Locating a proper 2-speed 3-position rotary canopy switch is easier said than done these days too. I got lucky on eBay a few years ago when I had to replace one on a different Vornado fan, I wish I would've bought more than one that time. Since the fan doesn't have a speed coil in it, I put an old 4-position 3-way lamp rotary canopy switch I pulled from a junk box in it. Wired up with one wire unconnected so it works like a simple on-off switch. Brass, looks close to what would've been there originally.

Fan cleaned up and rewired. I have some gray 18 awg SPT-2 zip cord (same stuff I used for the headwire) that I still plan to use instead of that black cord I tossed on it "for now".

I also folded a cover for under the base to keep the wires contained. I didn't have any sheet metal that I wanted to cut up at the moment so I made it out of a Seafoam can. A little bit thin, but not bad. I'll need to make another out of heavier gauge steel someday.

GallopingGhostler Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:05 am

Nice work, Jacob on a vintage fan. Yes, I can understand your reasoning with switch selection. An older style toggle switch would have worked too, although not OEM, would appear OEM since few knew exactly how it looked 60 - 70 years ago.

I replaced the electrolytic capacitor in the house's office room ceiling fan 15 years ago. It burnt out with a lightning strike on one of the utility lines in the neighborhood.

Then again it went several years ago, this time appears to be the motor, house is 38 years old and fan came with the house when we bought it 23 years ago, so I removed the fan I installed in my son's vacant bedroom (now married with family), installed it in the office, and bought a new ceiling fan for that room.

It is a slightly older ceiling fan, right color for the office with its light oak paneling, but it was badly out of balance, typical of fans 20 years ago.

I bought a ceiling fan blade balance kit, but the double stick foam tape used was cheap and didn't hold the weights for long. (Good way to break out a window, have the fan throw one of those when spun up.
I learned a few things in balancing fan blades. You'd think the heavier blade would lunge out so holding a chalk to mark it would work. Nope, found out that in an unbalanced condition, the fan obtains a new equalibrium by kicking the lighter blade outward. It is the one that gets marked.

This one blade required a good bit of weight to balance. I didn't get it perfect, but good enough that now, it runs on high speed with less than a quarter inch rock. Middle speed and low speed is steady.

Putting weights using the temporary plastic clip to hold it in place, took a bit of experimenting with different weights. I finally settled on using Harbor Freight wheel weights that I was using on my motorcycle rims for balancing. They have a better adhesive foam tape.

Was going to say, learned something. I bought from Wal-Mart some universal LED replacement bulbs with 2 pin ends. Although T-8 in diameter, they will autoswitch to work with T-8 or T-12 ballasts. I know that your vintage kitchen light is T-12, but push come to shove, later on if you can't get T-12 bulbs, this replacement LED would still work. It won't be 100% correct, but wouled still allow the old T-12 fixture with new ballast continue to march on.

gkamysz Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:28 am

Interesting looking fan. I put replaced a capacitor pump on my parents AC unit a couple years ago. ~1986 unit. I can't remember the make, but online the pump was known to be a good one.

Balance is a tricky thing. Hard/soft mount, overhung mass, etc, etc. Only simple static balance is intuitive. Beyond that you need something to tell you want to do.

**Admin** Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:03 pm

Good ideas on balancing a ceiling fan. The ceiling fan out in the back porch wobbles a little bit, could probably use a bit of balancing.

The motor in this fan is a shaded pole motor, so the capacitor is simply being used for it's reactance to limit current flow. Unlike motors, such as those in ceiling fans, appliances, and HVAC equipment which use a capacitor to create a phase shift in the auxiliary winding with respect to the main winding to generate a rotating magnetic field.

Fortunately, film motor-run capacitors have gotten fairly small in physical size today, so I should be able to fit them under the base of the fan. I need to track down a 2-speed switch for it first. That may take awhile, I have eBay watches set.

GallopingGhostler wrote:
Was going to say, learned something. I bought from Wal-Mart some universal LED replacement bulbs with 2 pin ends. Although T-8 in diameter, they will autoswitch to work with T-8 or T-12 ballasts. I know that your vintage kitchen light is T-12, but push come to shove, later on if you can't get T-12 bulbs, this replacement LED would still work. It won't be 100% correct, but wouled still allow the old T-12 fixture with new ballast continue to march on.

The late 40s garage light that I fitted with a ballast pulled from an old kitchen light has since had that ballast swapped again with a different new-old-stock GE magnetic rapid-start ballast. The reason I swapped it was because the ballast from the kitchen light was filling not only the AM band, but even the FM band with a constant "buzz" when it was on. I could hear it buzzing away across the AM band from down the street. I recall you couldn't have those kitchen lights on while talking on a cordless phone for that same reason. The GE rapid-start ballast I've had in that fixture for the past couple of years lights just fine, even when it's 0°F out. I did track down a couple of new-old-stock preheat ballasts, but I haven't gotten around to taking that fixture down to swap the ballast out again. The fixture weighs more than you think and isn't easy to rehang.

rsv1cox Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:44 pm

Love that fan Jacob, and something I would grab onto. They don't build them like they used to.

roddie Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:28 pm

That fan has a "cool" look to it Jacob!

**Admin** Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:58 pm

I thought I posted about these awhile back but couldn't find a trace of the thread. It's possible I didn't post about them.

I found these at that same car show swap meet back in 2017.

Picture from 2017

The smaller one is a model 20C2-1 and the large one is a B38C1-1. Both from the early 50s.

That B38C1-1 is probably the most powerful fan I have. It too is missing it's speed coil and 3 speed switch. A bit rougher condition with a dent in the cowl. Pulling dents out of the cowl on these is virtually impossible, people restoring these typically use body filler to "fix" dents. I have it wired up with a on-off push button switch. I think I paid $12 for it. I used it in the garage for awhile until it got "taken over" and placed on top of a cabinet in the back porch as a decoration.

The 20C2-1 is slightly larger than the 16C3-1 I posted about above. This one looked like it fell off a table or a wall. The cowl has a ripply dent and was slightly out of round (only noticed it while cleaning it up). When I had the fan completely torn down, I pulled the cowl pretty close back into round. The switch worked but was broken in a way that was allowing the fan to become energized when switched off. Likely broke when it fell. Didn't get shocked by it, but the tingling feeling on the tips of my fingers when lightly touching it tipped me off to it (the 2nd time one of these fans tried to do me in). That's when I got lucky and spotted NOS 2 speed rotary switches available on eBay. This fan too ended up as a decoration, sitting next to the big one on the top of a cabinet, but it's kept plugged in and I turn it on from time to time to circulate the air in the back porch when it gets hot in there.

Picture from 2017

GallopingGhostler Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:54 pm

Admin wrote:I did track down a couple of new-old-stock preheat ballasts, but I haven't gotten around to taking that fixture down to swap the ballast out again. The fixture weighs more than you think and isn't easy to rehang.

Maybe yours are different, but most even older fluorescent fixtures allow for replacement of the ballast without removing the fixture. Of course, if the garage ceiling location makes use of a high ladder (like in a barn or older house with high garage ceiling), then removal first may be easier. Fortunately, my garage has a nine foot high ceiling, so fixtures can be easily accessed using a 6 foot ladder and my reach.

The latest rapid start electronic ballasts I installed to replace the old magnetic ballast and start heaters interestingly, have the two pins at each bulb end shunted (wired together). It has special circuitry to fire the bulb at higher voltages obsoleting the heaters, plus extend bulb life.

They don't exhibit the 60 cycle flicker that made some people light headed, dizzy, but operate up to say, several thousand cycles per second. Plus, I haven't noticed any RFI problems on the radio.

Some of the older ballasts used internal oil filled capacitors that would leak. Some had PCB oil.

One garage fixture, I replaced the old, leaked and failed magnetic ballast with a new magnetic 20 years ago. Then of all things, I notice it also leaked when I check into why it failed after about 6 years of use. I gather although I bought it from a local hardware store, it may have been old-new stock. This is a T-12-96 (8 foot single pin bulbs).

I don't get the blackened tube ends with the electronic ballast that I got with the old magnetic ballasts, plus the bulbs seem to last longer.

GallopingGhostler Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:15 pm

Repairing the Nutone C305C bath exhauster, was very dusty, cleaned out all the old dust plus the popcorn ceiling overspray. Original builder's laborer didn't bother to mask the unit before spraying. I should have taken photos, but needed to Git-'er done. Installation date decal inside shows a date code of 0586 (May 1986).

I didn't want to replace the unit, because it is in the attic and work to get to. I cleaned and scraped all debris from it. Took motor unit to the sink and with water and a toothbrush, removed all popcorn spackling, dust and accumulated lint from the impellor and motor assembly. Set it in the well warm garage to dry, then put a couple drops of oil on the motor bearings.

The cutoff damper blade of durable nylon was still in serviceable shape except for one broken molded pin, it was laying flat on the floor of the exhauster discharge section to the outside. Using a drill bit a touch smaller than the salvaged paper clip wire, hand drilled about 7/16th inch (11 mm) deep using my miniature pin vise that I bought 40 years ago for modelling use.

Using my needle nose pliers cutter, trimmed off a piece of wire from the paper clip, and force twisted it in. No glue needed, it is firmly attached.

This repair should be good until the new owner decides to replace the exhauster.
Amazon has a new motor, it is for a Broan same exhauster series (different model number), who I guess purchased Nutone, but only $16 on line. The original part is $64 plus shipping, so I opted for the Broan.

I reinstalled the existing motor assembly until I can replace it. Now when it runs, it is quiet like new. With these, I've found once they age, you end up oiling them every couple months to quiet them. A new motor will solve that issue.

rsv1cox Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:38 pm

Mr. Fix-it George, good for you. Think of the money you have saved over the years plus the satification you have by doing it your self.

I never called a repairman until I got into my 80's. Now I have "people". Plumbers, electricians, A/C guys all on my speed dial.

GallopingGhostler Mon Jul 15, 2024 7:40 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Mr. Fix-it George, good for you. Think of the money you have saved over the years plus the satification you have by doing it your self. I never called a repairman until I got into my 80's. Now I have "people". Plumbers, electricians, A/C guys all on my speed dial.

Thanks, Bob, I can empathize with you, because I have been there done that more or less.

Reason why I do most work on my vehicles is because it is difficult to find good honest repair people, ditto on house repairs. I know if I repair it, it stays repaired.

Yes, it has saved me money. Also, I have bought very few things with time including real estate. People don't realize how much they are spending with their disposable income, all the bank fees and usury. Yes, starting out, one may have to take a loan here and there, but if they can learn to manage their expenses and living within their means, they can beat the system.

When we were living in the LA area 40 years ago, we were living in a 2 bedroom fixer upper house built in 1926. It wasn't a bad fixer, good thing, all framed and sided in redwood. I was only 4 miles away from work, less than 10 minute drive.

I had friends who bought in Fontana south of Riverside toward San Diego, an hour and a half drive one way without traffic, double that with. I couldn't see commuting over 4 hours a day total just to have an affordable bigger house. But, somehow people did it.

HalfaDave Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:39 pm

Hi Admin,
That old fan must have a 'Coanda Effect' to it?
Nice job, thanks for sharing.
I like how the label says, oil with 20wt oil every 3 months... Smile

Made in Kansas too... Cool

Decades ago, I picked up a 1/8thHP 'Seabreeze' fan. (for nothing)
It wobbled. I twisted the aluminum 3 blades until they ran silent.
10 yrs it moved air in the shop.
Then, a friend of a friend noticed it.
Somehow, it got fixed up 'mint' through all our friends.
Now, it is next to 1959s rotary phone, and still works !

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

**Admin** Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:51 am

HalfaDave wrote:
Decades ago, I picked up a 1/8thHP 'Seabreeze' fan. (for nothing)
It wobbled. I twisted the aluminum 3 blades until they ran silent.
10 yrs it moved air in the shop.
Then, a friend of a friend noticed it.
Somehow, it got fixed up 'mint' through all our friends.
Now, it is next to 1959s rotary phone, and still works !
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

Very nice!

I'm sure some of you could've guessed that these Vornado fans were designed by a guy who also designed aircraft components.

rsv1cox Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:41 am

I'm sure some of you could've guessed that these Vornado fans were designed by a guy who also designed aircraft components.

Perhaps caps for apple sauce pouches too. I adapted this one for the afterburner on my Scientific Hollow Log F-100 build.

But I have electrical problems of my own. My 30 year old Craftsman buffer/grinders speed control has gone bad. Now it runs full bore all the time and i don't like that for most jobs. I took it apart this morning and sprayed contact cleaner in the potentimeter to no joy. It could be the speed control itself. Checked for parts on-line and naturally it's no longer available. New old stock units runs about $275.00 with $60 shipping. I think I will try Harbor Freight.

GallopingGhostler Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:52 pm

Bob, I did the same thing you did too, a few years ago when I made my Ringmaster Gee Bee Z, used a vitamin supplement bottle secion of correct size. Just like yours, the curvature was just right to add a sense of realism to the model.

Back when the Vornado was made, aviation was in vogue, much like the space program from the 1960's on.

Today it is drones. I suppose a modern equivalent would be a quad of smaller fans facing someone. Huh...

Repairs on the 50 CFM bathroom exhauster completed for now. New motor is in place, fits perfectly.

The grill attachment bolt is a simple 1/4x20 carriage bolt. Back then, the manufacturer was practical. A builder could simply find a correct size easy-to-find common carriage bolt, if the factory installed one was of incorrect length. In this case, the builder was lazy (custom build house for first owner). I guess the home owner didn't complaint. This caused the faceplate grill to warp. In the photo, I have replaced the original carriage bolt with one that is a quarter inch longer from my salvaged bolts stash. The rusty look makes it look like it was part of the original installation (Date code 0586 is May 1986).

In my garage scrap bin, found the 7/8-in. x 1/16-in. galv. steel strap that was used on my garage door, to support the rear of the steel rails. That was OK for the original garage door, but I had that replaced with an insulated metal door 10 years ago. Installer reused it. It worked, but I didn't like the way the door was installed, kind of amateurish. (We have a problem here in Clovis in finding workers who know what they are doing. If I were ignorant and didn't know better, would probably think nothing until things really went wrong.)

The old door could get away with it, because the door only weighed 80 lbs. It was aluminum framed, fiberglass paneled. The new door, fully insulated metal one with metal back is around 450 lbs. or so. To restrain any possibility of any extra motion, I replaced those flat hangars with L channel hangars.

Using a 24 tooth per inch blade on my hand hack saw and my mitre box, trimmed the flat bar to the length I needed, with center hole aligned over the cover's mount bolt. After dressing the sharp edges with a file, drilled holes for the two mount screws. To make installation easy, I used a hole diameter the same as the drill pin on the #8 x 1/2-in. truss head screws.

If I wasn't on a fast track, I would have spray painted the grill a nice white, giving it a new look. Instead, I used a soft bristle brush, scrubbed the plastic grill and the steel support strap clean. Smudges that remained were removed with Castrol Super Clean spray.

This is now how the ceiling looks. Next to the exhaust fan is the electric heater. Several years ago, I replaced the ventilation fan motor and cleaned it up. Drilled new mount holes for the new motor, as it did not line up with the old holes. (Manufacturer model revision.)

Both now work like new.

**Admin** Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:20 am

rsv1cox wrote:

But I have electrical problems of my own. My 30 year old Craftsman buffer/grinders speed control has gone bad. Now it runs full bore all the time and i don't like that for most jobs. I took it apart this morning and sprayed contact cleaner in the potentimeter to no joy. It could be the speed control itself. Checked for parts on-line and naturally it's no longer available. New old stock units runs about $275.00 with $60 shipping. I think I will try Harbor Freight.

It probably has a shorted triac on the speed control board. You could desolder it and test it with a multimeter. If it's shorted, you should be able to look up the numbers on it (assuming they didn't grind the numbers off it) and order a new one. Also check for cracked solder joints and loose wires as any arcing could've taken the triac out causing it to short.

You could also get a new generic speed control that you can plug it into or maybe install inside the base.

rsv1cox Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:00 am

Thanks George and Jacob, I took the cover off the speed control, it's like a tranistor radio in there. Smile

Nothing is fried but i will try Jacobs suggestion. I have several bench grinders but this one is my favorite.

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