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Vintage Vornado fan project
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Vintage Vornado fan project
Admin Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:42 am
Last weekend was the Back To The 50's car show, one of the largest classic car shows (featuring cars 1964 and older) in the country. On the last day of the show, they always hold a swap meet...that's where this followed me home:
The paint is chipped and someone scratched "TOP" into the top of the cowl. I presume someone took it apart and wanted to remember what side was top...scratching it into the paint must've made more sense than using a marker, or a piece of tape...or even scratching it into the bottom where it would go unseen... Despite that, there are no dents anywhere that I could see. It will need a set of new special slotted rubber grommets for the rear cone as the originals have become deformed.
No line cord, just wires dangling out the back of the motor, but it had a sticker on it saying that the motor works. The original factory gray rubber zip cord used on most of these old Vornado fans rotted off them decades ago, so almost every one of these you see out there today has since had it's cord replaced to some extent.
The fan is also missing it's switch and the low speed choke coil (and coil mount which also acts as a cover for the wires under the base). Burnt out choke coils are fairly common on these Vornado fans. Either the fan was allowed to run on "low" with a gummed up motor which overheated it's choke coil, or the original headwire (between the motor and base) shorted out after the insulation began to fail, taking the choke coil out with it.
Finding a replacement choke is not going to be easy, however I should be able to come up with an alternative. While digging for a ceiling fan speed controller I had "somewhere around here", I thought "why not use a capacitor?". I dug out a set of motor run capacitors and clip leads. 7.5µF is too low, the blades turn very slowly, and 10µF is too high, the fan runs about as fast as it does on "high".
I already have a fan identical to this which was originally my grandparent's, as some of you may remember, it kicked my ass here. A model 16C3-1.
Underside of the identical fan I already owned.
I measured the current draw of my first fan on "low" with it's factory choke coil, measured about 650 mA. Additionally, I compared both fans on "high" and both read very close at just over 700 mA.
Current draw of the identical fan I already owned on "low" speed.
By placing a set of 45µF caps in parallel to get 90µF and then placing a 10µF cap in series, that should get me 9µF (9.45µF measured). With 9.45µF in the circuit, the motor draws just over 600mA and the speed is about the same as that of the fan with the original coil. The coil should be able to be replaced with a 7.5µF and 2µF film cap wired in parallel, mounted under the base.
Current draw of the "new" fan with 9.45µF in series with the motor.
Locating a proper 2-speed 3-position rotary canopy switch is easier said than done these days too. I got lucky on eBay a few years ago when I had to replace one on a different Vornado fan, I wish I would've bought more than one that time. Since the fan doesn't have a speed coil in it, I put an old 4-position 3-way lamp rotary canopy switch I pulled from a junk box in it. Wired up with one wire unconnected so it works like a simple on-off switch. Brass, looks close to what would've been there originally.
Fan cleaned up and rewired. I have some gray 18 awg SPT-2 zip cord (same stuff I used for the headwire) that I still plan to use instead of that black cord I tossed on it "for now".
I also folded a cover for under the base to keep the wires contained. I didn't have any sheet metal that I wanted to cut up at the moment so I made it out of a Seafoam can. A little bit thin, but not bad. I'll need to make another out of heavier gauge steel someday.
The paint is chipped and someone scratched "TOP" into the top of the cowl. I presume someone took it apart and wanted to remember what side was top...scratching it into the paint must've made more sense than using a marker, or a piece of tape...or even scratching it into the bottom where it would go unseen... Despite that, there are no dents anywhere that I could see. It will need a set of new special slotted rubber grommets for the rear cone as the originals have become deformed.
No line cord, just wires dangling out the back of the motor, but it had a sticker on it saying that the motor works. The original factory gray rubber zip cord used on most of these old Vornado fans rotted off them decades ago, so almost every one of these you see out there today has since had it's cord replaced to some extent.
The fan is also missing it's switch and the low speed choke coil (and coil mount which also acts as a cover for the wires under the base). Burnt out choke coils are fairly common on these Vornado fans. Either the fan was allowed to run on "low" with a gummed up motor which overheated it's choke coil, or the original headwire (between the motor and base) shorted out after the insulation began to fail, taking the choke coil out with it.
Finding a replacement choke is not going to be easy, however I should be able to come up with an alternative. While digging for a ceiling fan speed controller I had "somewhere around here", I thought "why not use a capacitor?". I dug out a set of motor run capacitors and clip leads. 7.5µF is too low, the blades turn very slowly, and 10µF is too high, the fan runs about as fast as it does on "high".
I already have a fan identical to this which was originally my grandparent's, as some of you may remember, it kicked my ass here. A model 16C3-1.
Underside of the identical fan I already owned.
I measured the current draw of my first fan on "low" with it's factory choke coil, measured about 650 mA. Additionally, I compared both fans on "high" and both read very close at just over 700 mA.
Current draw of the identical fan I already owned on "low" speed.
By placing a set of 45µF caps in parallel to get 90µF and then placing a 10µF cap in series, that should get me 9µF (9.45µF measured). With 9.45µF in the circuit, the motor draws just over 600mA and the speed is about the same as that of the fan with the original coil. The coil should be able to be replaced with a 7.5µF and 2µF film cap wired in parallel, mounted under the base.
Current draw of the "new" fan with 9.45µF in series with the motor.
Locating a proper 2-speed 3-position rotary canopy switch is easier said than done these days too. I got lucky on eBay a few years ago when I had to replace one on a different Vornado fan, I wish I would've bought more than one that time. Since the fan doesn't have a speed coil in it, I put an old 4-position 3-way lamp rotary canopy switch I pulled from a junk box in it. Wired up with one wire unconnected so it works like a simple on-off switch. Brass, looks close to what would've been there originally.
Fan cleaned up and rewired. I have some gray 18 awg SPT-2 zip cord (same stuff I used for the headwire) that I still plan to use instead of that black cord I tossed on it "for now".
I also folded a cover for under the base to keep the wires contained. I didn't have any sheet metal that I wanted to cut up at the moment so I made it out of a Seafoam can. A little bit thin, but not bad. I'll need to make another out of heavier gauge steel someday.
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Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
GallopingGhostler Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:05 am
Nice work, Jacob on a vintage fan. Yes, I can understand your reasoning with switch selection. An older style toggle switch would have worked too, although not OEM, would appear OEM since few knew exactly how it looked 60 - 70 years ago.
I replaced the electrolytic capacitor in the house's office room ceiling fan 15 years ago. It burnt out with a lightning strike on one of the utility lines in the neighborhood.
Then again it went several years ago, this time appears to be the motor, house is 38 years old and fan came with the house when we bought it 23 years ago, so I removed the fan I installed in my son's vacant bedroom (now married with family), installed it in the office, and bought a new ceiling fan for that room.
It is a slightly older ceiling fan, right color for the office with its light oak paneling, but it was badly out of balance, typical of fans 20 years ago.
I bought a ceiling fan blade balance kit, but the double stick foam tape used was cheap and didn't hold the weights for long. (Good way to break out a window, have the fan throw one of those when spun up.
I learned a few things in balancing fan blades. You'd think the heavier blade would lunge out so holding a chalk to mark it would work. Nope, found out that in an unbalanced condition, the fan obtains a new equalibrium by kicking the lighter blade outward. It is the one that gets marked.
This one blade required a good bit of weight to balance. I didn't get it perfect, but good enough that now, it runs on high speed with less than a quarter inch rock. Middle speed and low speed is steady.
Putting weights using the temporary plastic clip to hold it in place, took a bit of experimenting with different weights. I finally settled on using Harbor Freight wheel weights that I was using on my motorcycle rims for balancing. They have a better adhesive foam tape.
Was going to say, learned something. I bought from Wal-Mart some universal LED replacement bulbs with 2 pin ends. Although T-8 in diameter, they will autoswitch to work with T-8 or T-12 ballasts. I know that your vintage kitchen light is T-12, but push come to shove, later on if you can't get T-12 bulbs, this replacement LED would still work. It won't be 100% correct, but wouled still allow the old T-12 fixture with new ballast continue to march on.
I replaced the electrolytic capacitor in the house's office room ceiling fan 15 years ago. It burnt out with a lightning strike on one of the utility lines in the neighborhood.
Then again it went several years ago, this time appears to be the motor, house is 38 years old and fan came with the house when we bought it 23 years ago, so I removed the fan I installed in my son's vacant bedroom (now married with family), installed it in the office, and bought a new ceiling fan for that room.
It is a slightly older ceiling fan, right color for the office with its light oak paneling, but it was badly out of balance, typical of fans 20 years ago.
I bought a ceiling fan blade balance kit, but the double stick foam tape used was cheap and didn't hold the weights for long. (Good way to break out a window, have the fan throw one of those when spun up.
I learned a few things in balancing fan blades. You'd think the heavier blade would lunge out so holding a chalk to mark it would work. Nope, found out that in an unbalanced condition, the fan obtains a new equalibrium by kicking the lighter blade outward. It is the one that gets marked.
This one blade required a good bit of weight to balance. I didn't get it perfect, but good enough that now, it runs on high speed with less than a quarter inch rock. Middle speed and low speed is steady.
Putting weights using the temporary plastic clip to hold it in place, took a bit of experimenting with different weights. I finally settled on using Harbor Freight wheel weights that I was using on my motorcycle rims for balancing. They have a better adhesive foam tape.
Was going to say, learned something. I bought from Wal-Mart some universal LED replacement bulbs with 2 pin ends. Although T-8 in diameter, they will autoswitch to work with T-8 or T-12 ballasts. I know that your vintage kitchen light is T-12, but push come to shove, later on if you can't get T-12 bulbs, this replacement LED would still work. It won't be 100% correct, but wouled still allow the old T-12 fixture with new ballast continue to march on.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
gkamysz Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:28 am
Interesting looking fan. I put replaced a capacitor pump on my parents AC unit a couple years ago. ~1986 unit. I can't remember the make, but online the pump was known to be a good one.
Balance is a tricky thing. Hard/soft mount, overhung mass, etc, etc. Only simple static balance is intuitive. Beyond that you need something to tell you want to do.
Balance is a tricky thing. Hard/soft mount, overhung mass, etc, etc. Only simple static balance is intuitive. Beyond that you need something to tell you want to do.
gkamysz- Gold Member
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Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
Admin Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:03 pm
Good ideas on balancing a ceiling fan. The ceiling fan out in the back porch wobbles a little bit, could probably use a bit of balancing.
The motor in this fan is a shaded pole motor, so the capacitor is simply being used for it's reactance to limit current flow. Unlike motors, such as those in ceiling fans, appliances, and HVAC equipment which use a capacitor to create a phase shift in the auxiliary winding with respect to the main winding to generate a rotating magnetic field.
Fortunately, film motor-run capacitors have gotten fairly small in physical size today, so I should be able to fit them under the base of the fan. I need to track down a 2-speed switch for it first. That may take awhile, I have eBay watches set.
The late 40s garage light that I fitted with a ballast pulled from an old kitchen light has since had that ballast swapped again with a different new-old-stock GE magnetic rapid-start ballast. The reason I swapped it was because the ballast from the kitchen light was filling not only the AM band, but even the FM band with a constant "buzz" when it was on. I could hear it buzzing away across the AM band from down the street. I recall you couldn't have those kitchen lights on while talking on a cordless phone for that same reason. The GE rapid-start ballast I've had in that fixture for the past couple of years lights just fine, even when it's 0°F out. I did track down a couple of new-old-stock preheat ballasts, but I haven't gotten around to taking that fixture down to swap the ballast out again. The fixture weighs more than you think and isn't easy to rehang.
The motor in this fan is a shaded pole motor, so the capacitor is simply being used for it's reactance to limit current flow. Unlike motors, such as those in ceiling fans, appliances, and HVAC equipment which use a capacitor to create a phase shift in the auxiliary winding with respect to the main winding to generate a rotating magnetic field.
Fortunately, film motor-run capacitors have gotten fairly small in physical size today, so I should be able to fit them under the base of the fan. I need to track down a 2-speed switch for it first. That may take awhile, I have eBay watches set.
GallopingGhostler wrote:
Was going to say, learned something. I bought from Wal-Mart some universal LED replacement bulbs with 2 pin ends. Although T-8 in diameter, they will autoswitch to work with T-8 or T-12 ballasts. I know that your vintage kitchen light is T-12, but push come to shove, later on if you can't get T-12 bulbs, this replacement LED would still work. It won't be 100% correct, but wouled still allow the old T-12 fixture with new ballast continue to march on.
The late 40s garage light that I fitted with a ballast pulled from an old kitchen light has since had that ballast swapped again with a different new-old-stock GE magnetic rapid-start ballast. The reason I swapped it was because the ballast from the kitchen light was filling not only the AM band, but even the FM band with a constant "buzz" when it was on. I could hear it buzzing away across the AM band from down the street. I recall you couldn't have those kitchen lights on while talking on a cordless phone for that same reason. The GE rapid-start ballast I've had in that fixture for the past couple of years lights just fine, even when it's 0°F out. I did track down a couple of new-old-stock preheat ballasts, but I haven't gotten around to taking that fixture down to swap the ballast out again. The fixture weighs more than you think and isn't easy to rehang.
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Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
rsv1cox Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:44 pm
Love that fan Jacob, and something I would grab onto. They don't build them like they used to.
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Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
roddie Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:28 pm
That fan has a "cool" look to it Jacob!
Last edited by roddie on Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : deleted unrelated content)
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Re: Vintage Vornado fan project
Admin Yesterday at 9:58 pm
I thought I posted about these awhile back but couldn't find a trace of the thread. It's possible I didn't post about them.
I found these at that same car show swap meet back in 2017.
Picture from 2017
The smaller one is a model 20C2-1 and the large one is a B38C1-1. Both from the early 50s.
That B38C1-1 is probably the most powerful fan I have. It too is missing it's speed coil and 3 speed switch. A bit rougher condition with a dent in the cowl. Pulling dents out of the cowl on these is virtually impossible, people restoring these typically use body filler to "fix" dents. I have it wired up with a on-off push button switch. I think I paid $12 for it. I used it in the garage for awhile until it got "taken over" and placed on top of a cabinet in the back porch as a decoration.
The 20C2-1 is slightly larger than the 16C3-1 I posted about above. This one looked like it fell off a table or a wall. The cowl has a ripply dent and was slightly out of round (only noticed it while cleaning it up). When I had the fan completely torn down, I pulled the cowl pretty close back into round. The switch worked but was broken in a way that was allowing the fan to become energized when switched off. Likely broke when it fell. Didn't get shocked by it, but the tingling feeling on the tips of my fingers when lightly touching it tipped me off to it (the 2nd time one of these fans tried to do me in). That's when I got lucky and spotted NOS 2 speed rotary switches available on eBay. This fan too ended up as a decoration, sitting next to the big one on the top of a cabinet, but it's kept plugged in and I turn it on from time to time to circulate the air in the back porch when it gets hot in there.
Picture from 2017
I found these at that same car show swap meet back in 2017.
Picture from 2017
The smaller one is a model 20C2-1 and the large one is a B38C1-1. Both from the early 50s.
That B38C1-1 is probably the most powerful fan I have. It too is missing it's speed coil and 3 speed switch. A bit rougher condition with a dent in the cowl. Pulling dents out of the cowl on these is virtually impossible, people restoring these typically use body filler to "fix" dents. I have it wired up with a on-off push button switch. I think I paid $12 for it. I used it in the garage for awhile until it got "taken over" and placed on top of a cabinet in the back porch as a decoration.
The 20C2-1 is slightly larger than the 16C3-1 I posted about above. This one looked like it fell off a table or a wall. The cowl has a ripply dent and was slightly out of round (only noticed it while cleaning it up). When I had the fan completely torn down, I pulled the cowl pretty close back into round. The switch worked but was broken in a way that was allowing the fan to become energized when switched off. Likely broke when it fell. Didn't get shocked by it, but the tingling feeling on the tips of my fingers when lightly touching it tipped me off to it (the 2nd time one of these fans tried to do me in). That's when I got lucky and spotted NOS 2 speed rotary switches available on eBay. This fan too ended up as a decoration, sitting next to the big one on the top of a cabinet, but it's kept plugged in and I turn it on from time to time to circulate the air in the back porch when it gets hot in there.
Picture from 2017
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