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Cox Engine of The Month
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
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Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Last edited by Kim on Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
Kim- Top Poster
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Posts : 8624
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Ha ha lol I would like to be there to see it although I am unable to turn I like to watch
davidll1984- Diamond Member
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GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Wow Bob got that baby to you in a hurry , this should bee Fun ! Good luck Kim
getback- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Lookin' good Kim, the Mud Dabber that is. I always liked that plane. Good luck with the Gilbert 11 and the Sky Flash. It's finally found a good home. Someday I may find the courage to fly or let Mark fly the other two.
Bob
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
"Kim, I think your 1961 Sterling Minnie Mambo "Little Traveler" would feel at home with the 1963 Gilbert as the kit was produced the same time.
"
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=620[/quote]
Yeah Man! Stand by for Photo Op!!!!!!
"
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=620[/quote]
Yeah Man! Stand by for Photo Op!!!!!!
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
getback wrote:Wow Bob got that baby to you in a hurry , this should bee Fun ! Good luck Kim
Thank You for the Well-Wishes! Gonna fly it from the dead-end ramp at Cairo's airport to have a 360 degree circle of runway, once the winds calm down a bit!
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
It will bee interesting to see how good the airfoil is to keep that Gilbert in the air
getback- Top Poster
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rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
That's ridiculous heavy even for a strong running 1/2A. If all else fails, it could double as a tether car.
Ken Cook- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
WoWEE you got your work/skills out to bee tried . once again Good Luck !
getback- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Yeah, it appears to be plenty heavy, but on 25' lines, with a full circle of asphalt, we can always conduct "Taxi Trials" !!!!!
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Ken Cook wrote: That's ridiculous heavy even for a strong running 1/2A. If all else fails, it could double as a tether car.
Bright side Ken, bright side.
As one NASCAR driver once opined..."It's all ate up with engine."
Heavy as a rock I might add but all three were definitely flown.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Only on CEF could something like this happen …. Very cool!!…It’s fun to watch many of the old rtf’s being restored in Bob’s virtual museum….Very unique….Now the chance to see something that obscure fly, Nice….. I’m getting vibes somewhere between Myth Busters and Flight of the Phoenix lol…
Seriously, Watching with interest, Good luck Kim!!!
Seriously, Watching with interest, Good luck Kim!!!
rdw777- Diamond Member
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
With the Gilbert''s extra weight, seems though the .11 Thunderhead, more than twice the displacement of an .049 moved it along acceptably. Also to help it along, the larger wing area helped, too.
My impressions are that with a CL aircraft of 150 sq. in. wing area such as the 1952 Hal DeBolt 26" All American Jr. would be about right for the .11. It's plans list the earlier Duromatic McCoy "9", OK Cub .074 and .099. This is versus the standard, smaller .049 kits with 120 or less wing area.
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=347
Please note the similar aluminum landing gear arrangement to the Gilbert RTF.
It goes to show that considerable engineering went into the Gilbert aircraft and engine, to provide successful repeated flights by the neophyte, given the limited cost effective technologies of the day. However, Gilbert's train and scientific toy marketing venue was not enough for it to gain a market hold over the already heavily established Cox and Wen Mac flying model aircraft market.
Later, Leroy Cox would suffer a similar fate with the slot car crash, which left him with huge unsold inventory similar to Gilbert. Sale of his company went to Leisure Dynamics.
However, made to fly they can. I gather that there is a fond love for the unloved by the OCD (old, cranky and dangerous ) crowd of Kim, Bob, self and more likely than not @Ian1954.
Both Gilbert engine and aircraft are now history to be relived at CEF, along with other engines and craft.
My impressions are that with a CL aircraft of 150 sq. in. wing area such as the 1952 Hal DeBolt 26" All American Jr. would be about right for the .11. It's plans list the earlier Duromatic McCoy "9", OK Cub .074 and .099. This is versus the standard, smaller .049 kits with 120 or less wing area.
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=347
Please note the similar aluminum landing gear arrangement to the Gilbert RTF.
It goes to show that considerable engineering went into the Gilbert aircraft and engine, to provide successful repeated flights by the neophyte, given the limited cost effective technologies of the day. However, Gilbert's train and scientific toy marketing venue was not enough for it to gain a market hold over the already heavily established Cox and Wen Mac flying model aircraft market.
Later, Leroy Cox would suffer a similar fate with the slot car crash, which left him with huge unsold inventory similar to Gilbert. Sale of his company went to Leisure Dynamics.
However, made to fly they can. I gather that there is a fond love for the unloved by the OCD (old, cranky and dangerous ) crowd of Kim, Bob, self and more likely than not @Ian1954.
Both Gilbert engine and aircraft are now history to be relived at CEF, along with other engines and craft.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
rdw777 wrote:Only on CEF could something like this happen …. Very cool!!…It’s fun to watch many of the old rtf’s being restored in Bob’s virtual museum….Very unique….Now the chance to see something that obscure fly, Nice….. I’m getting vibes somewhere between Myth Busters and Flight of the Phoenix lol…
Seriously, Watching with interest, Good luck Kim!!!
THANK YOU!!!!!!
And, from GallopingGhoster:
"However, made to fly they can. I gather that there is a fond love for the unloved by the OCD (old, cranky and dangerous) crowd of Kim, Bob, self and more likely than not Ian1954.
Both Gilbert engine and aircraft are now history to be relived at CEF, along with other engines and craft."
TRUTH BROTHER!!!!!!!
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Up early this morning to assorted lightning flashes and wind blasts across the hill, but still a good time to hoof it to the shop for some pre-dawn engine runs.
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" was rubberbanded to the test board for its first time at making racket in the shop.
I decided to switch out the ancient plastic prop/spinner base for a grey 6-4 that was laying nearby. Maybe seems a bit small for an .11, but the poor thing had fairly weak compression, so that's the way I went.
And...just to give myself a break and make the old Gilbert easier to access, I also removed the fancy cowling.
I started REAL low on the glowplug power, remembering (I think) some previous comments on the delicacy of the Gilberts' filaments. Got some pretty good hits right off the bat, and after flooding and clearing it a few times, got the needle tuned in, with a good run...fully emptying the tank.
(and yes... I forgot to pull the clip, but I really think it's gonna run fine when I do)
So, that's the deal at this point. The little Gilbert seemed strong as it tugged on its restraints, and its smooth run makes me think this antique ought put in some flights appropriate for what it is.
A couple more runs to go, and then, to wait for a good weather day.
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" was rubberbanded to the test board for its first time at making racket in the shop.
I decided to switch out the ancient plastic prop/spinner base for a grey 6-4 that was laying nearby. Maybe seems a bit small for an .11, but the poor thing had fairly weak compression, so that's the way I went.
And...just to give myself a break and make the old Gilbert easier to access, I also removed the fancy cowling.
I started REAL low on the glowplug power, remembering (I think) some previous comments on the delicacy of the Gilberts' filaments. Got some pretty good hits right off the bat, and after flooding and clearing it a few times, got the needle tuned in, with a good run...fully emptying the tank.
(and yes... I forgot to pull the clip, but I really think it's gonna run fine when I do)
So, that's the deal at this point. The little Gilbert seemed strong as it tugged on its restraints, and its smooth run makes me think this antique ought put in some flights appropriate for what it is.
A couple more runs to go, and then, to wait for a good weather day.
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Kim wrote:I decided to switch out the ancient plastic prop/spinner base for a grey 6-4 that was laying nearby. Maybe seems a bit small for an .11, but the poor thing had fairly weak compression, so that's the way I went. [...]
So, that's the deal at this point. The little Gilbert seemed strong as it tugged on its restraints, and its smooth run makes me think this antique ought put in some flights appropriate for what it is. A couple more runs to go, and then, to wait for a good weather day.
You're nearer sea level, so 6x4 prop has strong pull. Having lived at higher elevations above 4,000 feet for the past 30 years give or take, found going to a larger diameter netted better results than at sea level. (6x3 versus 5.25x4 netted same result at seal level, but higher up, 6,500 ft., the 6x3 pulled stronger.) At my elevation would have probably shot for a 7x3, an 33% increase in spinning disk area.
Although I have 2 Gilbert .11's and a reasonably new tach but with my bad back, I'm an arm chair general.
(I know, excuses, excuses, excuses. )
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Kim. I had my doubts.
Previous owner made removing that cowling easy, Batman style - Smash - bang - zoom. Only he lost the original #2 self-tappers and replaced them with #4's.
It's great to see something happening with the thing. Relieved also to see my replacement fuel pickup line working, original was a crumbling mass.
Bob
Thanks Kim. I had my doubts.
Previous owner made removing that cowling easy, Batman style - Smash - bang - zoom. Only he lost the original #2 self-tappers and replaced them with #4's.
It's great to see something happening with the thing. Relieved also to see my replacement fuel pickup line working, original was a crumbling mass.
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Yes, I have seen some interesting things done by people who thought they had the smarts, which gives a lot of food for humor on "Been There Done That" photo and videos posted on the 'net.rsv1cox wrote:Previous owner made removing that cowling easy, Batman style - Smash - bang - zoom. Only he lost the original #2 self-tappers and replaced them with #4's.
For the sake of economy, plastics used and plastics in general are not a good medium for repeated screw removal and insertion. In radios and electronics I have repaired, simply removing those specially threaded screws would sometimes take a portion of the plastic with them, requiring me to carefully re-drill over slightly (to prevent plastic post from splitting) then go to an oversized screw. Otherwise, the screw simply does not get a good bite and cannot be torqued down.
This is where a metric screw can be advantageous, because they can be an in-between size so you don't have to go to a drastic size larger (ANSI / SAE #2 to #4, where say a #3 sheet metal or #3 "Plastite" is not available. Metric can be between say #2 to #3.).
Of course in a radio chassis, no one sees the internals, so "what they don't know won't hurt them." If in a car plastic panel, I use a trim washer if exposed, sometimes the truss head sheet metal screws are "clean enough" that it appears to be "reasonable factory" (to the unknowing) where a plastic post or clam retainer broke, so I can avert buying an expensive replacement.
I think us OCD seniors (old, cranky, dangerous ) all think alike.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
You know, when reassembling something you back off the screw a bit until you feel the threads drop into place. Even more important when reassembling plastic. You do not want to cut another set of threads into plastic. Hogs them out. It's a learned touch experienced over time.
Rene's suggestion of heating the screw head with a soldering iron/gun is valuable on castor locked engine mounting screws to disassemble. I have never found it necessary on fuselage body screws and would hesitate to try it. I put a drop of oil on the head and find the proper philips/slot head screwdriver to back them out.
Embedded body screws are the worst. Use a flashlight to determine the the screw type, hold the body firmly with one hand against pressure and hope. Many of the ones I work on haven't been moved in 30/40 years.
Not a pretty sight.
Edit: Just opened up a moment ago. More fun.
I like it when things are properly packed.
Eagerly awaiting Kim's Gilbert flight results. Hopes not high, a wingover may be pushing it. Good luck Kim!!!!
Rene's suggestion of heating the screw head with a soldering iron/gun is valuable on castor locked engine mounting screws to disassemble. I have never found it necessary on fuselage body screws and would hesitate to try it. I put a drop of oil on the head and find the proper philips/slot head screwdriver to back them out.
Embedded body screws are the worst. Use a flashlight to determine the the screw type, hold the body firmly with one hand against pressure and hope. Many of the ones I work on haven't been moved in 30/40 years.
Not a pretty sight.
Edit: Just opened up a moment ago. More fun.
I like it when things are properly packed.
Eagerly awaiting Kim's Gilbert flight results. Hopes not high, a wingover may be pushing it. Good luck Kim!!!!
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Bob, you are speaking from experience and yes, I have made the same personal observations, too. One needs to make sure they retrace the re-inserted screw to follow the same path it was originally in to minimize wear and tear. If it seems to take more force to get it to align, back off a touch until screw "feels the dimple", retrain the screwdriver straight and try again. When it drops in with little effort, then we are off to a good set again.rsv1cox wrote:You know, when reassembling something you back off the screw a bit until you feel the threads drop into place. Even more important when reassembling plastic. You do not want to cut another set of threads into plastic. Hogs them out. It's a learned touch experienced over time.
It like with old radio, computer and car panel screws. In spite of best efforts, sometimes the inevitable happens where post breaks, splits, or body / shell / panel hole breaks, no matter the lube, right screw/nut driver tip, etc., or it was prebroke through age or use. And, as you indicate, sometimes, someone before in their jing-ham wisdom, already pre-broke it for you in attempting repairs.rsv1cox wrote:Embedded body screws are the worst. Use a flashlight to determine the the screw type, hold the body firmly with one hand against pressure and hope. Many of the ones I work on haven't been moved in 30/40 years.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know that this is not the final result.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
I put Bob's extra .11 on a stand, and used a MA 7x4 prop I had handy. Like its sibling, it took me a while to get the balance right with the needle setting, but it actually ran quite steady once I got there.
I think the 7x4 is a bit much for it though, with it mostly hovering around 8K, and may pull the 6x4 from his Skyflash if I do another run.
Weird & Wonderful Little Castor Slingers!
I think the 7x4 is a bit much for it though, with it mostly hovering around 8K, and may pull the 6x4 from his Skyflash if I do another run.
Weird & Wonderful Little Castor Slingers!
Kim- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
Thanks Kim, It's a joy for me to see those running. Did you use the starters, did they work or just hand flipped?
rsv1cox- Top Poster
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Re: Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand
rsv1cox wrote:Thanks Kim, It's a joy for me to see those running. Did you use the starters, did they work or just hand flipped?
Both starters worked...I want to set up a camera/tripod to get video of them being used. Though, the one on this engine would take a spell of missing its catch during the original attempts...still started with regular flipping.
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