wanted sure start engines

robot797 wrote:I got reminded that it might help if I were to describe the project

I want to make a demonstration board that has 4 engines that all run on a different fuels
nitro-diesel-gasoline-propane

and it would also gives me a reason to explain how I made them run on all the fuels

robot797:

And I am helping him find most of the parts. I have crankcases, both regular and the thicker crankshaft car version, enough. Crankshafts, enough. Backplates, not so much, I can only provide 1 maybe 2 so far, I have converted most of mine for a special project. Cylinders, I have several #2 and #3 which should be enough. Anyone want to donate a #4. Glow heads, more than enough, because they will be converted to 1/4-20 thread for spark plugs. Already enough. Glow heads if need, enough.
  The thing robot797 really needs are flywheels and tiny magnets to be placed inside the flywheels for timing with an ignition circuit. I’m not sure what he is doing with this part, or needing for this part.
 
 Keep in touch as we gather parts for his project, which by the way is in Holland.

 robot797 did I forget anything?


Happydad    

He's doing either electronic ignition with a hall-effect trigger, or he is doing one of the small, cheap points-to-electronic ignition systems. Those are my guesses.

Valving a propane system will be interesting. Most propane systems shoot propane under pressure. While that works on popette valve engines, I will be curious to see how the engine effectively keeps the reed shut against that pressure when not on the intake stroke.

I bet one of the car engines would work well with a boat flywheel. The boat flywheel should be easy enough to have produced if you can't find one on eBay.

I have to watch this one go together. Good luck!

The complete Surestart rear ends are readily available through Bernie or Matt and are not expensive. Four the same would ensure consistency. Also, because this is a comparison experiment, it would also be best to use the same # cylinders on all four engines.

Oldenginerod wrote:The complete Surestart rear ends are readily available through Bernie or Matt and are not expensive.  Four the same would ensure consistency.  Also, because this is a comparison experiment, it would also be best to use the same # cylinders on all four engines.

Oldenginerod: I have thought of that, but this is his project and already I am supplying most of the items, so...

I will do as much as I can as my part as a fellow forum member, but I am honest in what I have available. And my 128tpi backplates already cost me plenty time and $$. I had a few postage stamp and old horseshoe backplate assemblies with needle valve assemblies in them, but what were they, so I had to count threads. Then....., so here is where we are. i have accumulated a lot of "stuff" and most of it needs to go sooner or later. robot797 came along at a good time.
   i am looking at some flywheels used on cars. i asked for details from seller, they are for 1/10 scale cars, so maybe 1inch  O.D. or so. see here.


about $12 for 4 from hong kong, but some US car shops may have them.

>>>>editeded 8-13-2020 9:40p.m. PST. to add another cheaper, in color flywheel >>>>>end edit



view 1


view 2


view 3. colors, cheaper, but from Hong Kong, about 2 to 3 week delivery


happydad

the flywheels dont have to be car flywheels
(also nost 1/10 car flywheels have a m5 hole in the middle)
and normal spacer that comes past the starter cam does work

and I do plan on using electronic ignition
because its more common and easyer to replicate

also @944_Jim
low flow propane can be hold into almost any engines carb and it works
see the video on my future propane powered boat motor

robot797 wrote:the flywheels dont have to be car flywheels
(also nost 1/10 car flywheels have a m5 hole in the middle)
and normal spacer that comes past the starter cam does work

and I do plan on using electronic ignition
because its more common and easyer to replicate

also @944_Jim
low flow propane can be hold into almost any engines carb and it works
see the video on my future propane powered boat motor

Great video. Now we can see what you are doing with the Cox .049 sure start type engines.
   I think we need to find the old type Cox circular muffler, about 1inch diameter, with a snout, or tube on the side directing the exhaust away, to the side of the engine. They are fairly rare, I think Cox dropped the snout to save money.

Happydad    

I thought I posted the video bevore
might not have
but that is kind off the plan
but I do have to say this was a crued setup and needs some improving

robot797 wrote:I thought I posted the video bevore
might not have
but that is kind off the plan
but I do have to say this was a crued setup and needs some improving

robot797: It looked great.

Hd      

It aslo has to much compression XD

parts are still wanted!

I'm impressed!

So the propane is on low pressure, low feed rate such that the reed can allow the propane in. Does any escape out of the air inlet before the engine draws in the next fual/air charge? Or is the cycle so fast that this isn't a big fuel waste?

How is the ignition triggered? Hall effect magnet and sensor on the front?

All I can say is "Wow!"

Now isn't that just plain old awesome! Good job, and thanks for sharing teh video with us.

There is a bit of a fuel loss but not enough to be noticed
And it is triggered by a hall sensor

robot797 wrote:parts are still wanted!

So what parts are still needed? Trying to read though this thread is like trying to coral cats. Be specific so we can look through our spares and see whats available.

easy list
backplates (withall stuf that is needed)
props (inc mounting hardware)
happydad has the rest for me

I understand propane is a cleanburn fuel. Where or how do you get oil into the inner workings of the engine!

I have a small tank of oil connected to the original carb
and I use the original needle for oil regulation

robot797 wrote:easy list
backplates (withall stuf that is needed)
props (inc mounting hardware)
happydad has the rest for me

I have these three backplates. Will they work?
- They have original copper reeds that don't look in too bad of a shape. Maybe they can be cleaned up.
- All three will at least need soaking in alcohol to clean off the castor.
- All three needles turn but are a gummy. two of the needles are aluminum.
- Only one has screws.

Cryhavoc wrote:

robot797 wrote:easy list
backplates (withall stuf that is needed)
props (inc mounting hardware)
happydad has the rest for me

I have these three backplates. Will they work?
- They have original copper reeds that don't look in too bad of a shape. Maybe they can be cleaned up.
- All three will at least need soaking in alcohol to clean off the castor.
- All three needles turn but are a gummy. two of the needles are aluminum.
- Only one has screws.

Cryhavoc: I don’t use alcohol. It has water in it. I use old fuel, fuel that sat in the tank, but wasn’t burned. When thru testing an engine, I dump the unused fuel into a different container to be used for cleaning engines or engine parts. This fuel may have picked up contamination from the tank, like tiny particles or water, maybe not. Why take a chance for 1 or 2 cc of fuel. After a few engine tests I usually have a few ounces, more than enough to clean an entire engine including the backplate, reed reed retainer and screws.

Happydad    

Cryhavoc: I don’t use alcohol. It has water in it. I use old fuel, fuel that sat in the tank, but wasn’t burned. When thru testing an engine, I dump the unused fuel into a different container to be used for cleaning engines or engine parts. This fuel may have picked up contamination from the tank, like tiny particles or water, maybe not. Why take a chance for 1 or 2 cc of fuel. After a few engine tests I usually have a few ounces, more than enough to clean an entire engine including the backplate, reed reed retainer and screws.

Happydad     [/quote]

No thanks, I'll stick with alcohol. I use denatured alcohol. Not isopropyl. Using old fuel and the ancillary crud it contains, or even new fuel kinda defeats the purpose of getting the oil off. By the time the parts are cleaned and dried there is zero water so I don't get the argument for not using it. Especially since a gallon is cheap as beans at Home Depot and can be used for all sorts of things like cleaning off epoxy and such.

Mike

@Cryhavoc - Can you please put a link to the denturated alcohol that you get from Home Depot. I searched it, bud did not find it so I can see if it is available at Home Depot up here. Best that came up was methyl hydrate and am not sure if that is the same or not. Thank you.

Cryhavoc wrote:
Cryhavoc: I don’t use alcohol. It has water in it. I use old fuel, fuel that sat in the tank, but wasn’t burned. When thru testing an engine, I dump the unused fuel into a different container to be used for cleaning engines or engine parts. This fuel may have picked up contamination from the tank, like tiny particles or water, maybe not. Why take a chance for 1 or 2 cc of fuel. After a few engine tests I usually have a few ounces, more than enough to clean an entire engine including the backplate, reed reed retainer and screws.

Happydad    

No thanks, I'll stick with alcohol. I use denatured alcohol. Not isopropyl. Using old fuel and the ancillary crud it contains, or even new fuel kinda defeats the purpose of getting the oil off. By the time the parts are cleaned and dried there is zero water so I don't get the argument for not using it. Especially since a gallon is cheap as beans at Home Depot and can be used for all sorts of things like cleaning off epoxy and such.

Mike[/quote]

Mike: I forgot to mention after cleaning I ALWAYS use after run oil on all moving parts.

You don’t think I give all my secrets away at one time do you.

The old fuel breaks down the crud, along with an old toothbrush, almost instantaneously. Little waiting. I only have to soak an engine if the crud is so thick the engine won’t turn over, at all, even after heat gun.

And I strain the old fuel as it is used or on the way into the secondary storage.  

To each his own.


Happydad      

I forgot to mention after cleaning I ALWAYS use after run oil on all moving parts.

You don’t think I give all my secrets away at one time do you.

The old fuel breaks down the crud, along with an old toothbrush, almost instantaneously. Little waiting. I only have to soak an engine if the crud is so thick the engine won’t turn over, at all, even after heat gun.

And I strain the old fuel as it is used or on the way into the secondary storage.  

To each his own.


Happydad      

Experience speaks