Spectra line for 1/2A?

Thanks for the reply, Fred.
I read the AMA specs (tho' no !/2A), so that definitely puts it out of the fad category.
I'm preparing to try 1/2A again after many years and thinking the lighter weight will allow longer lines for slower lap times, all else being equal.

Terry, I've been using Spectra exclusively since I got back into control line about four years ago.  I use 10# test Spectra line for 1/2A planes.  I'm told some people use 8# test, but my local store only goes down to 10# test line.  My preferred brand is the Power Pro brand put out by Shimano.  It is actually manufactured by Innovative Textiles Inc., a company in Colorado.

I was motivated last month to do a little test of the lines using the Double Uni knot as shown in the recommended AMA video, and the way Shimano recommends.  Here's the thread:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t10145-my-unscientific-spectra-test#128315


The Motivated Mark

Interesting test, Mark.
The variable results from different sizes is odd.
The local Wally-World has 10# Power Pro (green only  ).
FWIW, on the surgeon's knot, looks like (with care) the knot might be worked down around a thimble, etc., as it's tightened.
While it's a simpler knot in principle, it'd be more work than the slip-iness of the Uni. I can't comment on it's load carrying ability.

wha-tah-hey wrote:Interesting test, Mark.
The variable results from different sizes is odd.
The local Wally-World has 10# Power Pro (green only  ).
FWIW, on the surgeon's knot, looks like (with care) the knot might be worked down around a thimble, etc., as it's tightened.
While it's a simpler knot in principle, it'd be more work than the slip-iness of the Uni. I can't comment on it's load carrying ability.

My local Wally-World.. had this line, which I picked-up last year.. although I can't attest to using it yet.





I've yet to see any hi-vis yellow there yet.. and that "Palomar-knot" shown on the package is not the one that I tie either.

It's tough to get a macro-image.. but here's a 5-turn uni-knot that I tied using 30# SpiderWire for when we had the CEF 1/2A Profile Reed-Speed contest a few years ago.



I never got the model in the air to be able to comment on the line's performance. The 30# test was a bit overkill... but my model was on the heavy-side and I wanted to play it safe.

I'm very eager to try these synthetic-braid lines and need to make-up a few shorter sets. The speed-contest rules called for 42 foot lines. That length had since been reduced to 35 feet for the following year's contest.

I found it difficult to tie two separate lines close to the same length.. I got them to within an inch of each other.. but if I had it to do over again.. I'd use a single through-the-handle set-up.

For my one set of 10# 1/2a lines I tried desperately to tie the recommend knots and bad eyes and shaky hands prevented success...

I ended up tying with two turns around the eyelet and a series of 4 half hitches...set with thin CA.... pull tested good enough...not to destruction...just enough pull to convince me they would hold a pull much greater than what I experience when flying

Yellow hi vise 10# still a good set of lines on a Roger Harris made Cox handle

I flew way to many times with crap cox Dacron or my mothers carpet thread to need to over think the spider wire stuff for 1/2a

If I had 5# I would be tempted to try it....grin

Now a 4.8 ~5.2 second per lap .35 powered 30oz stunt plane I would (and I am) be more conservative with the quality and strength of the line

I'll use a Sullivan 1/2A handle so a single-line thru set-up would work fine, Roddie.
I think Spider Wire is a brand that has been recommended.

You're surely right about the strength issue, Fred.
Years ago when I flew 1/2A it was with the common Dacron thread and never a problem.

wha-tah-hey wrote:I'll use a Sullivan 1/2A handle so a single-line thru set-up would work fine, Roddie.
I think Spider Wire is a brand that has been recommended.

You're surely right about the strength issue, Fred.
Years ago when I flew 1/2A it was with the common Dacron thread and never a problem.

Terry, It's great that you're gearing-up to fly 1/2A control-line again! We're always psyched when we get a new member like yourself. I've learned so much from our members here.. and learn something new every time I login. I almost always write too much when I post and I have a lot of "hair-brained" ideas.. but there's still a myriad of unexplored territory when it comes to modeling in general.

I envy your geographic location.. because up here in Rhode Island.. there won't be too much warm-weather flying time left this year.. Not that I'm an avid flyer... (I haven't logged a single flight since becoming a member here over 3 years ago.. ) It's a bit of an embarrassment for me.. but that's ok. When I'm ready to fly again.. I'll have a lot more trouble-shooting knowledge that I didn't have before. I owe that to all these terrific members here.

Regarding "lines"... When I did actively fly, it was using Dacron-lines.. and exclusively with 1/2A models in a side-yard where I used to live. There wasn't much room either.. roughly a 55 foot diameter circle! My Dacron lines were about 25 feet long. I was flying Cox .049 reed-valve powered models.. so they weren't "speed-demons". The balsawood models had no problem pulling-up into inverted flight.. without going over the top.

You mentioned TVA lines overhead where you live. Are they directly overhead.. and how high are they? Certainly; braided-stainless control-lines are electrically conductive. I can't find any research on synthetic lines; likely because they're relatively new to the control-line hobby. I think I'll pose the question in a separate thread.. because if they're non-conductive.. it would dispel any concerns about flying in the proximity of power-lines. I'd like to see you (or anyone; including myself..) be able to fly.. without that concern.

TVA lines are ~40-50' AGL and I sure wouldn't try without some ironclad assurance it was absolutely safe.
We do often have 60+ deg winter weather, with a rare 75-80 deg day.

But fact is, I'm not sure I'd enjoy it by myself. My older brother and I grew up modelling together, as life would allow over the years (mostly small F/F rubber sport), and when he passed 6 years ago it all lost it's charm.
A couple years later, selling kits he'd left for me to sell for his family, I decided to try c/l as sort of a memorial activity, as that's where we started in the late '50s with 1/2A stuff (all we could afford then. ) and we'd been threatening to get back to it though, sadly, never made the plunge.
And I've come to enjoy the camaraderie of fellow flyers much, much more than the poor quality of my flying.
Thankfully, I have a great bunch of guys in NACA to fly with now, but they're all 50 miles away so I can't fly as often as I might like, or easily take advantage of their experience and expertise.
So forums such as this (I post in several) are my primary connection to fellow flyers.
Someone's available to lend an ear 'most any time and someone almost always has the answer.
Soliloquy finis.

Besides, by myself, I'd have the worst imaginable teacher.

Roddie, Spider Wire is not actually Spectra line.  It is Dyneema line.  They are similar, but not the same.  Dyneema has more stretch than Spectra, and Spectra has more abrasion and fatigue resistance from what I've read.  Dyneema is a European development, vs. Spectra which is an American development.  I've read that there is a plant in N.C. that makes Dyneema, but I can't talk to the origins of Spider Wire.

To educate myself, I just spent about a half hour on the Spider Wire website (http://www.spiderwire.com/), and I can't find anywhere where it says Spider Wire EZ Braid is American Made.  Will it really make a difference on a 1/2A plane?  I'd bet not.  We've been using the standard dacron stuff that Cox included in their kits for decades, so it's not really a big deal.  But the AMA specifies Spectra, so I'll stick with that.  Just and FYI.

I'm half tempted to re-do my line tests using a Palomar knot to see if I get any appreciable difference in results.  But it's rainy out, and I'm not really that motivated.  I'll do it eventually, as I'm told Palomar knots make it easier to get the lines to uniform length.


As far as flying near power lines with Spectra, I'd act the same as if I were flying steel lines.  I'd bet that Spectra is non-conductive per se, but when you're flying around in circles, I'm sure the lines pick up some surface moisture to some degree.  And probably some static electricity also.  I would stay well away from power lines even with Spectra.  But that's just me.

The Fatigued Mark

edit:

Looking at this photo, the Spider Wire looks very different from Spectra braided wire.  On Spectra, the braid is more evident.

I've recently read (don't recall the source) that the Palomar knot is of much lower strength than the Uni.
And re: TVA transmission lines, a 150' RoW, as across my yard, means up to 230KV on the wire.
Nothing to play with.

wha-tah-hey wrote:TVA lines are ~40-50' AGL and I sure wouldn't try without some ironclad assurance it was absolutely safe.
We do often have 60+ deg winter weather, with a rare 75-80 deg day.

But fact is, I'm not sure I'd enjoy it by myself. My older brother and I grew up modelling together, as life would allow over the years (mostly small F/F rubber sport), and when he passed 6 years ago it all lost it's charm.
A couple years later, selling kits he'd left for me to sell for his family, I decided to try c/l as sort of a memorial activity, as that's where we started in the late '50s with 1/2A stuff (all we could afford then. ) and we'd been threatening to get back to it though, sadly, never made the plunge.
And I've come to enjoy the camaraderie of fellow flyers much, much more than the poor quality of my flying.
Thankfully, I have a great bunch of guys in NACA to fly with now, but they're all 50 miles away so I can't fly as often as I might like, or easily take advantage of their experience and expertise.
So forums such as this (I post in several) are my primary connection to fellow flyers.
Someone's available to lend an ear 'most any time and someone almost always has the answer.
Soliloquy finis.

Besides, by myself, I'd have the worst imaginable teacher.

Hi again Terry, I'm very sorry to learn of your brother's passing. Siblings are too often not so "in-tune" with each other. This was obviously not the case in your family. Was he with you for the 1996 NATS in Muncie? I have two younger brothers.. but they have very little interest in our family's past history in model-aviation. I was born in 1960.. which makes me a bit younger than you.. and my two younger brothers were born in 1966 and 1968. I feel that there was a significant difference in childhood interests in that short span of time. Aero-modeling was turning a corner.. and Radio-control modeling was taking-over. Control-line modeling was starting to lose popularity. It wasn't an immediate demise.. but a slow/gradual trend that saw kits and supplies becoming more and more scarce. Radio-control gear had gone through a revolution in dependability... but was nonetheless expensive.. even for entry-level gear. Most kids couldn't afford that expense.. and there wasn't any major-marketing in-place to drive the hobby. Cox Hobbies was a major contributor.. but only if you were an avid subscriber to the model-magazines.. or had a local hobby-shop or major retail store nearby that sold model-supplies. Mattel and Hasbro were cleaning-house with major-marketing back then. If Mattel had bought Cox in the mid-70's and retained their engineering-staff; the firm surely wouldn't have ended up like it did with Estes.

Terry, there's a lot of us that fly alone. I've always flown alone. You've mentioned your being envolved with the NACA. You can now add "us" to your support-team. I've felt a heaping-helping of support since becoming a member here! We often talk about "stooge-launch" assist techniques for when you have no pit-man. Trouble-shooting questions are always addressed.. usually within hours of a post.

Your thoughts are appreciated, Roddie, as is the welcome I've received here and on other forums.
MOF, the guys on SH just helped me remember/reclaim some of that past - the first plane my brother and I flew, Scientific's Musciano American Boy. Seems kinda fitting that should be the one. Gotta have one now.
Re: the Nats, I was going through a really rough patch in '96 and he invited me on the Nats trip (his son flew Foxberg, a speed event and Mouse, I think) to help me out of the pit.
BTW, though we flew a lot of F/F over the years, our last c/l flying was summer of '60.  

batjac wrote:
As far as flying near power lines with Spectra, I'd act the same as if I were flying steel lines.  I'd bet that Spectra is non-conductive per se, but when you're flying around in circles, I'm sure the lines pick up some surface moisture to some degree.  And probably some static electricity also.  I would stay well away from power lines even with Spectra.  But that's just me.

Just don't hang a key on your lines and you'll be right

Hi, I just ordered up som SpiderWire Spectra - 5lb test "at 1lb diameter" to see how well it works.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SpiderWire-Spectra-Braid-Fishing-Line-Moss-Green-5-LB-1-LB-Dia-100-YDs-Braided-/281929794068?hash=item41a4534214:g:ii0AAOSwezVWt7bL