Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Robbasdog Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:18 am

A question, guys...I've been scrolling through the many threads on identifying a genuine this-or-that engine, and while there is much valuable info I also find some contraditions, mostly about dates and cylinder numbers----soooo, is there a DEFINITIVE set of specifications to say what parts each engine left the factory with? Did COX ever keep such records?? Or did COX use a pick-n-mix assembly method, like Ducati did in the early '70s?
The reason I ask is that I was looking at my collection of Cox parts and part-engines and I figure I have enough bits to make up 5 or 6 complete engines. There are still a few gaps in my collection I want to fill, but without knowing what goes with what in what year, all I'll end up with is a bunch of mongrel bitzers. Productive, maybe--but it won't satisfy the purist in me.
Cheers, folks.

706jim Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:22 am

I think you are out of luck for the simple reason that the engines were too numerous and too cheap to have serial numbers.

Any manufacturer has to keep track of production by serializing the product and none of the Cox engines I own have any such numbers on them or their packages.

fredvon4 Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:02 am

I assume you know of Martin Hepperle aerotools web site and you should also refer to the wikkipedia page also for clues

As far as I know, there is no one place to see exactly each engine configuration and dates of MFG

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm

**Cribbs74** Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:11 am

As mentioned above, there is nothing that exists that is definitve. There is however, a load of info on here and on the web that will help. You can learn a lot just by looking around.

If you have specific question(s) just post them here and you will get the answer you are seeking. Lot's of experts in CEF.

Ron

pkrankow Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:40 am

While pick-and-assemble was how it was done, the parts of certain styles were used, then once switched AFAIK the old style part was not used again.

There were also different product lines that were maintained. While many of the differences were cosmetic there were functional differences between certain parts. (stunt tank, etc)
Phil

fredvon4 Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:39 am

Not the correct place for this but since I was on the Cox Wikki page I re-read through a few of the descriptions and saw this

1961 Tee Dee 051 (Cat#200 - Manufactured Oct 1961-Jan 1996)
The 051 was simply a Class A version of the engine, physically the same on the outside only the bore was different and the piston had a small groove in the skirt to bleed off just enough power to exactly equal an 049 so no trim changes would be required to free flight models (this groove also visually differentiates the 051 from the 049 but this was of secondary importance). The 051 also had a RED carb body.

I had never before heard that the grove was anything other than a way to externally Identify a .051 from a .049

I am not sure that the grove and where it is would bleed off any power

balogh Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:31 pm

Fred,

refer to the other thread titled "051 groove ring lowers power?" running in parallel. I tried to explain there my opinion that concurs with yours i.e. the groove there is just for the visual differentiation between 049 and 051 calibers.

Robbasdog Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:31 pm

Many thanks to you all for the replies--and it's pretty much as I expected. I have been thinking lately about putting pen-to-paper and coming up with some engine-by-engine descriptions based on all the info available here and elsewhere, and post it for your verification or correction. With many contributors it would eventually become as complete and accurate as it's possible to be after all these decades. Since all of the info is public domain stuff I can't see any lawyers beating a path to my door for infringing any copywright laws...any legal boffins in the ranks, please correct me now if I'm wrong about that!!!
Of course, the people to talk to would be any ex-COX employees, the higher up the chain-of-command the better, but I don't imagine there are too many left now from the early days.
I'll buy a big notebook tomorrow.....

coxaddict Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:09 pm

I too have assembled many engines from acquired Cox parts. This forum has educated me to the point to where I can select the period correct crankcase, tank and back plate and even the drive washer to assemble a 50's, 60's 70's or 80's Babe Bee. I Love This Forum!

I used to buy Cox engine lots on ebay, disassemble and clean all the parts with no regard to keeping the parts together on an engine. Mostly because many of the engines had mismatched period parts any way. I wired the crank to crankcase and the piston to the cylinder during soaking and cleaning because these parts were mated to each other. Babe Bee .049

Now the big question, was the 3 piece (piston, retainer and circlip) ever used by the factory in early Babe Bees? Would it be correct with the crankcase without the retaining groove for the spring starter? Huh...

I know Cox kept using parts till they ran out before switching to new product/part.

Sponsored content

Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Serialized Cox engines

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...