Prototypes of new Cox engines that will be available in January

Cox International Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:07 pm

Here are preliminary details of some new engines:

Texaco II

http://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=609&cat=38&page=1

Golden Bee II

http://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=610&cat=38&page=1

Black Widow II

http://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=611&cat=38&page=1

Venom II

http://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=612&cat=37&page=1

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

**Admin** Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:33 pm

The Black Widow II looks just like a 1990s Black Widow. The Golden Bee II looks good, first golden bees to be made in many years. I'll probably have to get a Texaco II and the Venom II is cool but some people may be turned off by the slit cylinder. If the slit cylinder preforms better then any other cylinder currently available, then use it! But there are rumors going around on the RCU where people are telling others to stay away from slit cylinders as they restrict power (sometimes true). I will also probably have to get a Venom II. Looks Great!

mr_cox Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:38 pm

Will definitely try them out. Looking good!

EXModelEngines Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:40 pm

Looking good!

Now I will have to come up with creative names for my new creations lol!

Matt

**Admin** Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:48 pm

EXModelEngines wrote:Looking good!

Now I will have to come up with creative names for my new creations

Matt

How about the "CEF Special" lol!

I had one drawn up for the last 7 months, never got around to actually giving it a try!

Godsey3.0 Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:03 pm

AWESOME!!! My most reliable engine is a Golden Bee. I will probably get one of these to save mine. I am happy they have the big exhaust slits instead of the tiny ones. I like being able to see a bunch of the piston.

nitroairplane Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:26 pm

Looking gooBentie and at very reasonable prices.
These 8cc stunt tanks open up a world of possibilities!

**Cribbs74** Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:34 pm

Kudo's Bernie!

Great looking engines with prices to match. You nailed the black widow...... Very cool. Now we need.....

Tee Dee .010 and .020 II's !!!!!!

Looking at the stupid prices they go for on ebay I bet you could get your production costs back in 5-10yrs.

Plus you would corner the market. Maybe you and Matt could start a joint venture to ease the initial pain? Just a thought, you explained this at length to me before but, hey it doesn't hurt to ask right?

Anyway, thanks for supporting us and keep the products coming!

mitchg95 Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:52 pm

is this true that new cox engines will be produced in january???? cheers

Cox International Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:02 pm

some people may be turned off by the slit cylinder

For the Texaco S L O W is the key and not high RPM. That aside, the slit cylinder with SPI piston outperforms the one we are going to use on the Golden Bee and Black Widow.

I have stated this many, many times before but the newer slit exhaust cylinders are more aggressively ported than any of the old Babe Bee, Black Widow, Golden Bee, etc cylinders. They are in fact ported just like the 1990's Tee Dee cylinders.

Read: Slit exhaust cylinders w/ SPI piston outperform the open port version found on the OEM Black Widow - Why would we use it for a Venom II?

As for TD engines, anyone that would like to put up a minimum of $100,000 per engine type, $40/each @ 2,500 pieces / $100 retail ( a tough sell ) and wants to wait 5-10 years to make this back, please contact us and we would be happy "invest" to your money Hand Shake

Don't forget that the reedies we are offering are made from old Cox stock that we bought at fire-sale pricing and that is why we can afford to sell them for $60

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

microflitedude Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:03 pm

Of all of them. the Black Widow is my favourite. only 17,000 RPM?

microflitedude Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:04 pm

mitchg95 wrote:is this true that new cox engines will be produced in january????

Sadly not.

Cox International Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:06 pm

mitchg95 wrote:is this true that new cox engines will be produced in january????

All engines that we offer are made from the over 35,000 Surestart engines we bought from Estes/Cox. All we did was make some tanks and other little parts, anodize some parts and put them back together. There has not been a single Cox engine manufactured for over a decade and I doubt there will for years to come as the cost of manufacturing a basic Surestart exceeds what we are selling them for today.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

microflitedude Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:11 pm

Good reading... or maybe not.

http://coxengineforum.forumakers.com/t107-production-of-cox-engines-today?highlight=production+today

Cox International Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:15 pm

microflitedude wrote:Of all of them. the Black Widow is my favourite. only 17,000 RPM?

Dunno, haven't tested one. Could be more, could be less. I just threw something in there as all engines we sell are essentially Surestarts as a base. The open port adds only a few 100 RPM so expect Surestart performance. I you want an OEM Black Widow, they are for sale here:

http://coxengines.ca/home.php?cat=40

although I doubt the performance will be much better.

Remember; we are neither trying to compete with the old Cox nor pretend to be a revival of such. For all intents and purposes we make do with what we have, within our $$ resources.

Unless we can get the price of a basic Surestart engine up to about $40, this whole Cox thing is going to end anyhow in 4-5 years when we and our competitors run out of stock engines.

Bernie
www.coxinternational

nitroairplane Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:21 pm

That is sad but I think eventually prope will pay $40 for a sure start.

microflitedude Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:36 pm

nitroairplane wrote:That is sad but I think eventually prope will pay $40 for a sure start.

Exactly. Eventually that will be what they are worth, and we can start the fire again. sunny

We just have to pass it along to the next generation....

nitroairplane Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:41 pm

Yes the 11-20 year olds of today will decide the fate of cox engines!

**Cribbs74** Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:25 pm

Cox International wrote: some people may be turned off by the slit cylinder

For the Texaco S L O W is the key and not high RPM. That aside, the slit cylinder with SPI piston outperforms the one we are going to use on the Golden Bee and Black Widow.

I have stated this many, many times before but the newer slit exhaust cylinders are more aggressively ported than any of the old Babe Bee, Black Widow, Golden Bee, etc cylinders. They are in fact ported just like the 1990's Tee Dee cylinders.

Read: Slit exhaust cylinders w/ SPI piston outperform the open port version found on the OEM Black Widow - Why would we use it for a Venom II?

As for TD engines, anyone that would like to put up a minimum of $100,000 per engine type, $40/each @ 2,500 pieces / $100 retail ( a tough sell ) and wants to wait 5-10 years to make this back, please contact us and we would be happy "invest" to your money

Don't forget that the reedies we are offering are made from old Cox stock that we bought at fire-sale pricing and that is why we can afford to sell them for $60

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

Yeah,

I was kind of talking "tongue in cheek" 100K startup isn't chump change I agree however, 100 dollars for a new Tee Dee .010 is the going rate for the current used ones and NIB's fetch even more. I assume you plan on still being in the game in 5-10 yrs (I hope!) so there still time.

I do have a question though, who has the original tooling? If you had the tooling then maybe it wouldn't be as expensive to spool up. Unless you already have the tooling and the 100k is just in raw material, overhead, employees etc. I guess I am just thinking out loud, I am sure you have crunched the numbers and weighed the risks already. I also don't want to sound ungrateful as guys like you and Matt are the backbone of this hobby. I just see a market out there and if I had two nickels to rub together I would put my money where my mouth is!

Again I can't thank you enough! and those new engines are beautiful!

Ron Cribbs

Cox International Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:34 pm

Ron,

Much of the tooling was either scrapped, lost or unusable. Some is still at Estes but is is not for sale and will likely be scrapped.

Tooling is not the issue as it's pretty well all CNC machining nowadays and we don't need teh Estes tooling. It's the low runs that are the issue. To get a decent parts price and have a TD for $25 (cost) one should make 10,000 parts each. That is a whopping 1/4 Million Dollars for one engine; more than we make profit in a year.

There are pleny of $100 TD's for sale out there and they are real slow sellers at that price. A $50 TD would sell well but who is going to come up with $250,000 and hope to sell 10,000 engines? Heck, between Matt, us and all our competitors there are less than 5,000 Cox engines being sold a year, and that at a price of $20.

We are going to concetrate on selling our OEM stock and making some parts and accessories for the time being.

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

**Admin** Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:50 pm

Cox International wrote: some people may be turned off by the slit cylinder

For the Texaco S L O W is the key and not high RPM. That aside, the slit cylinder with SPI piston outperforms the one we are going to use on the Golden Bee and Black Widow.

I have stated this many, many times before but the newer slit exhaust cylinders are more aggressively ported than any of the old Babe Bee, Black Widow, Golden Bee, etc cylinders. They are in fact ported just like the 1990's Tee Dee cylinders.

Read: Slit exhaust cylinders w/ SPI piston outperform the open port version found on the OEM Black Widow - Why would we use it for a Venom II?

As for TD engines, anyone that would like to put up a minimum of $100,000 per engine type, $40/each @ 2,500 pieces / $100 retail ( a tough sell ) and wants to wait 5-10 years to make this back, please contact us and we would be happy "invest" to your money

Don't forget that the reedies we are offering are made from old Cox stock that we bought at fire-sale pricing and that is why we can afford to sell them for $60

Bernie
www.coxinternational.ca

I wasn't saying that what you have there is bad or going to be underpowered, I was saying from what I keep reading on RCU, many people over there seem to turn away from the slit cylinders and keep telling others to back away from the slit cylinders. Its been awhile since I was over there so I have no idea where the topics are. For the Texaco, that's a Texaco they originally came with them. I do believe the mod slit cylinder is as good as if not better then a TD cylinder, I'm just saying that some people may just look at it as if it is just a red crankcase SureStart with a Black Widow tank. It does look cool and I will have to have one in the future.

**Cribbs74** Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:48 pm

Good point Bernie,

Another point that was made here was where is the interest going to be in say 10 to 15 yrs? The baby boomers have the most experience with these engines and my generation knows of them but, would rather buy an android and watch reality TV. That leaves the current one and I bet 90% of them have no clue as to what a cox engine is( 10% leeway for guys like microflitedude) I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway thanks for the info, now I'm thoroughly depressed. lol!

**Admin** Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:15 pm

Well, the thing is WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET THESE BACK INTO STORES!!! My damn hobby shop still looks on the old Cox-Estes site and thinks that Cox engine are completely unavailable. When I told them about ExModelEngines and Cox International, they don't listen and think that I'm talking about another online hobby store as they reply with a "we don't purchase items from online hobby shops, we only buy from manufacturers"... Since HUGE amounts of engines and products are not being made, I would probably start low with a mall kiosk at the Mall of America or a different mall during the Christmas Season. With a big COX logo and little engines and planes sitting everywhere, I'm sure guys who remember the stuff will stop by and buy some for their kids. I doubt it would ever get close to match the amount of sales in the mid 80s but it could possibly beat the mid 90s sales. What would be awesome would be finding a Cox .049 powered model down the toy isle at K-mart, Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, ~~Montgomery Wards~~ and so on. Ads need to be ran in magazines, ~~on buses~~, on websites and so on.

SuperDave Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Oh come on! The LHS can only afford to carry what sells and in sufficent volumes to pay overhead expenses including a reasonable profit margin.

Sentimentally makes very "thin soup" in the world of business ask if that's not so at your LHS (if you can still find one).

**Admin** Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:48 pm

SuperDave wrote:Oh come on! The LHS can only afford to carry what sells and in sufficent volumes to pay overhead expenses including a reasonable profit margin.

Sentimentally makes very "thin soup" in the world of business ask if that's not so at your LHS (if you can still find one).

That stuff actually sells up there, they would place some cox items out to have them sold within a few weeks (the surestarts were always coming and going), they had 20 glow plug clips a few years ago and they sold within 2 or so months after on the shelf, I asked them where did they move them to and they said "we sold all of them but can't order them anymore as they are no longer available from Cox" That had to be 3 years ago or so. Just last summer, I told them that cox engines are still available and the old guy said "nope they are not, they are no longer listed on their site" I asked what site they were on and the old guy said "the cox site!" I later found out they were looking at the old Cox-Estes site. I said to check out ExModelEngines and Cox International but they thought they were middle man online hobby shops... Anyway, Hub Hobby does good, always full of people and they have a TON of crap for smaller store, their staff is rude as hell though...

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