Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

**RknRusty** Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:30 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Now is good time to use those CA hinges that come with the plane.

Don't think I haven't thought of it. But I'm hurrying, not rushing, and sewn will be better. I learned that Stunter's mantra from one of your club mates.
Rusty

**RknRusty** Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:47 pm

I was double checking and of course found another hidden crack. It's on the top sheeting just at the very edge of the filet. So the filet had done its job of strengthening the wing at the root, but almost escaped notice until I was flexing the wing looking for just that. Damn, another fiberglass job. But a smaller, lighter one.

First I sprung it open slightly and trickled some CA into it, then let it go back to its resting position which is with the crack closed. That's why it was hidden, but one day the wing would have folded in an outside 90 degree corner. I saw one do that on the Expert circle over the pavement in May. Matt Colan's Vector exploded into a pile of garbage in a fraction of a second during a wingover. I heard it. I wish I'd seen it. I must still have a little NASCAR blood in me, Haha. Matt's an Aerospace student at Embry Riddle. I bet his buddies gave him hell over that one. Beware with ARFs, when you slice the monokote along the gluing surface and do Not score the wood... same with the stab. Anyway, I dremeled the filet off as much as I dared. It's a good gluing surface anyway, epoxy and microballoons. I love that stuff. Here's a pic with the filet removed. The crack is barely visible, an inch and half or so, near the LE, right against the edge of the ground-off filet.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Filet_10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Filet_10

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Hers's a pic of the fiberglass on the top sheeting and folded up the side of the fuselage a half inch. It overlaps the bottom glass right under the apex of the LE. It's not sanded yet.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Top_gl10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Top_gl10

The test puddle of epoxy hardened perfectly. Again I can barely bend it, but it doesn't snap. That's 30 min glue, after setting 2 hours. The last one set that fast and still has the same properties days later. It's Great Planes glue. I have always had excellent results with that brand. I know there is much more sophisticated epoxy available, but I don't need it for my small hobby. Some brands require slightly different amounts of each part, but the GP stuff is usually spot-on. I think I got a batch that was slightly off once, but just make a note of the proportions and it's fine. I miss my Loctite 60 in the bottles.

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Here's the wider bottom glass I did last week. It is sanded, and looks and feels much better than the picture suggests.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Fiberg10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Fiberg10

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Poor Girl Sad

She'll be fine though. Lots of TLC going into this job.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Poor_g10

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Straight as an arrow. The yellow monokote I tore up will be replaced with silvery aluminum covering. I think it'll look cool. This contest plane needs a name! please tell me what to write on her side.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Alignm11

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Alignm11

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Alignm12

Stay tuned for re-hinging the flaps and re-mounting the engine.
Rusty

akjgardner Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:05 pm

Id' name It ......NUT-N-HONEY......I don't know why....Just thought it was funny....PS...I am on drugs from a knee operation today LOL

**RknRusty** Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:46 pm

akjgardner wrote:I'd name It ......NUT-N-HONEY......I don't know why....Just thought it was funny....PS...I am on drugs from a knee operation today LOL

Ah!, so you're the kinda people I need, thanks, Gardener. I'm on long term C/P/M narcotics too.
Maybe that's why I fly so much better in my head than I do in the air lol!

I hope your knee works out great. They're pretty good at that these days. Do all of your PT homework!
Rusty

Okay, that's one, lessee what y'all got. I'll send the winner a prize.

KariFS Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:38 am

"Tuff Enuff"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XeHzCPaN-0

Wink

akjgardner Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:29 am

WOOD A SHOULD A COULD A.............OR...........GRAVITY WON (1).........I had a hydroplane one time with DELTA on the tail I named it ........MISS MANAGED......HA HA HA.....Guess who I used to work for ? LOL

Marleysky Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:46 pm

Oriental Phoenix
Oriental As it's place of birth ( or construction )
Phoenix. As it's re-birth from the ashes ( balsa dust) from where it came!

JPvelo Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:55 pm

"Fortune Cookie", now that you've cracked it open to see what's inside.

Jim

**RknRusty** Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:23 pm

So far I have a favorite. Thanks, and keep them coming.
Rusty

crankbndr Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:39 pm

Miss Hap or Aerosplat sorry thats all I could do Huh...

Fortune Cookie is good Beer Cheers

Ken Cook Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:42 pm

I don't know if you drilled the mount yet. As crude as it sounds, the best screws I found for the task were allen socket head sheet metal screws. Of course they do provide you with screws (Typically slotted) that work well. When I drill these, I use a pin vise I can accurately drill those holes better than a drill press can do. This is due to not having a fixture to hold it properly. I have a fixture for the .049-.061 mounts. What kind of tank was in there, plastic or metal? What is the condition of that as crashes like that can really fubar a metal tank internally. I thought you mentioned you were running plastic. I would really get that engine on there prior to doing a lot of work and see if vibrations are going to be an issue. Ken

**RknRusty** Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:23 pm

It's been previously drilled and used with the supplied screws, of which the front two come out on the bottom through the angled tip end. Though they fit my engine, I want to relocate them farther back, so I was planning to use 4-40 machine screws, and maybe plug the existing holes.

I have an all tubes forward Brodak metal tank. The plastic one you're thinking of is in the Nobler. I haven't pressure checked it yet. I guess I should take a look inside first and see that everything is in place and secure.
Rusty

Ken Cook Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:40 pm

Rusty, I would use the holes you have. Those mounts tend to break directly on the hole just from vibes. If it doesn't work due to the engine too far fwd, I would buy a new one and start over, but at least you will have the firewall holes located. The fact that they broke out of the holes due to the angle isn't a problem, pretty typical. The tank should be air tested as if your trying to blow it up. My concerns would be the pipe broke away from where it was soldered in the rear. That you wouldn't know by air testing, only a visual inspection by opening it. My first step would certainly be the air test. If it passes, try and fly.

**RknRusty** Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:54 pm

Thanks for the tips, Ken. I'll take your advice and mount it in the existing holes. I just came in from the shop after cutting the old beams almost flush with the firewall, just some cleaning up to do. The existing firewall is 1/8" and seems pretty sturdy, but I think I'll add another 16th of ply to its face before installing the mount. After test fitting the mount, the engine height will be no problem.

I'll get back to the flaps later. I'm happy with my other repairs, they'll be nearly invisible and plenty strong.
Rusty

**RknRusty** Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:54 pm

And here's the aforementioned new face for the firewall.
I'll fit some balsa triangle stock in all four corners behind the firewall, being careful not to obstruct the tank. It's all tubes forward, but it'll sit a little farther back, since all but the engine feed line and hole is blocked by the engine mount. I'll make some external copper plumbing exiting from the tank compartment for uni and overflow vents.
Just doing a little something every day. It's never as simple as it looks at first.

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 0904151841_zpss4bz9xzf

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 0904151841_zpss4bz9xzf

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Maybe this is where I can wrap a strip of 1/2 oz fiberglass around the outside? Or should I use the heavier glass like on the wing?
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 0904151843_zpshcaavwl4

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 0904151843_zpshcaavwl4

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 0904151852_zps9twnqew2

Maybe this is where I can wrap a strip of 1/2 oz fiberglass around the outside? Or should I use the heavier glass like on the wing?

I was just looking at the mess I made of the yellow monokote. I have no idea how I'm going to make that look good again. I do have some silkspan and Aerogloss clear and black. And silver Monokote. Some combination of all that I suppose.
Rusty

**RknRusty** Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:15 pm

I filled the old plumbing holes with Maple beam stock, shaped to fit and epoxied in place.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Firewa10

Then glued the new face plate in and discovered two bolt holes for the engine mount don't go through into the tank compartment. I had to open up the top sheeting of the fuselage to get the blind nuts in place. I was going to paint some epoxy in there but it looks to be already covered with something Chinese... hot glue, I guess. I was careful not to cut that stringer in the center.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 New_re10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 New_re10

Here's a view of the blind nuts in the top. I will coat all the screws with epoxy because they ain't coming back out. And the mount will be glued to the firewall too. If this plane ever crashes again, it's history. There is no telling what's still broken that I can't see.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Blind_10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Blind_10

I think I'll put an aluminum bearer across the screws and secure with nylock nuts and cut them to length.
Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Test_f10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Test_f10

I bought some CA hinges today for the flaps. Monokoting the rest will be a pain in the ass. All the new covering will be silver.
Rusty

akjgardner Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:18 am

Another name idea......Risky Business.....or.... Rusty's Bonsai

rsv1cox Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:19 am

Rusty on September 5 said:

"You guys never cease to amaze me with the projects you are inspired to take on."

Right back at ya good friend. Smile

Bob

**RknRusty** Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:03 pm

Thanks Bob. Just a matter of perspective isn't it.
Okay, I'm at another tough place. The tank does not fit conveniently to say the least. I thought I was going to have more room than this. Obviously I can shorten the copper lines exiting the tank, to get some bend in the silicon lines. I could use 1/2A line for the vents, though I'd rather not. I could try bending the copper lines, but they're the hardest copper I ever met. I just turned out the lights for a while. All sorts of ideas seem simple until I go look at the actual situation. I sure don't want the plumbing to be any less than perfect. A shorter tank is not an option either, as it needs all of the gas I can get in it. Not so bad on warm days but certainly it will in October. Last year stunters were falling like flies when one of the first cool days coincided with the contest. It woulda been funny... if it wasn't, Lol.

I just don't know. While I think on it, I'll gladly take ideas. Just assume the pictures look better than real life. And the blocky mount on the front end is adding to the lack of room.
Rusty

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Fuel_t10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Fuel_t10

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Fuel_t11

Ken Cook Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:30 pm

Rusty, is the tank all the way to the back of the compartment ? Your pictures don't show it and I can only assume it is. 1/2A line is not a good option. Bending the pipes cold is also not an option. They will break and if they do bend your going to compromise the solder joint. If bending is the only solution the tank needs to come apart. Heat until cherry red and let air cool and it will be pliable like a rubber band. Clean off all scale and solder back in. Does the pickup run directly into your blind nuts? Personally I would put a 90 deg bend on the pickup and drill a hole through the firewall on the inside of the mount . If this is something your not comfortable doing I would be more than willing to do it for you. What size tank is that? Is that a 4.5 or a 5? Ken

**RknRusty** Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:37 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Rusty, is the tank all the way to the back of the compartment ? Your pictures don't show it and I can only assume it is....

... Does the pickup run directly into your blind nuts? Personally I would put a 90 deg bend on the pickup and drill a hole through the firewall on the inside of the mount ....

If this is something your not comfortable doing I would be more than willing to do it for you. What size tank is that? Is that a 4.5 or a 5? Ken

Ken, it is all the way back with a thin rubber pad on its butt end.

There are only about 4, maybe 5mm between the pickup tube and the edge of the blind nut. What you are saying is what I was thinking too, bent up(down in the picture) and over over toward center a bit. Then I could run the line through behind the engine, with plenty of room over the crankcase for my filter. I had expected to make a pair of vent lines that provide a hard point on the side of the fuselage to hook up to for pressure and overflow, like the ones Tom Morris makes. But I don't know if there is room to even work with that. Just turning down(up in the picture) and through the compartment cap is fine for those.
Of course the bolts in the picture will be cut off short.

I'm not wild about trying it myself. I should have jumped in and learned when the tank-craft craze swept CEF members a year or two ago. It is a Brodak BH-561, 5oz tank. It's on page 87 of the catalog, and pictured with the dimensions below.

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Bh-56110

Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s) - Page 2 Bh-56110

If you have one of these, and would plumb it for me, I would send you mine to replace it. I pressure checked it and it seems good to go right back into service. There are no dents in it. Thanks about a Gazillion.
Rusty

roddie Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:37 pm

Hey Rusty.. don't think about "anything else that's broken, that you can't see". We all have those.. and they keep flying! Forgive my asking.. but you had tried the 4.5oz. tank.. and had trouble running short of fuel? I wonder if you can add .25oz. of capacity to a BH-560 somehow? I suppose it would take lengthening the tank by .25" to make a #5605.. I was also thinking about a .25oz. reserve-tank.. if you had the room. Make it an extension of the vent maybe? It would depend (I think..) on whether that vent is uni-flow.. in which case I wouldn't go that route. I know that time is tight.. and I'm just trying to help you brainstorm.

**RknRusty** Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:04 pm

Roddie, your first idea is a good one, Lol. If... the plane wasn't on its last crash, I would put a 1/2oz smaller BH-560 tank in it and get a smaller venturi and go through the engine trimming routine. But this combo is already tuned, and the plane has one wheel in the slag heap, so, you get my drift. I also have no idea if I'll fly it better than the Nobler by Sunday, Oct. 25 at 9:45am. However my fabulous friend Ken is offering to bail me out, so I'm going to take advantage of his generosity... again.

As for your second idea, a Roddimus Prime Classic for sure. But, nnnnnI think I'll just go wit wut I got. Dude, I'd brainstorm with you any time, just don't expect me to keep up.
lol!

Rusty

cox24711 Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:31 pm

RknRusty wrote:I filled the old plumbing holes with Maple beam stock, shaped to fit and epoxied in place.

Then glued the new face plate in and discovered two bolt holes for the engine mount don't go through into the tank compartment. I had to open up the top sheeting of the fuselage to get the blind nuts in place. I was going to paint some epoxy in there but it looks to be already covered with something Chinese... hot glue, I guess. I was careful not to cut that stringer in the center.

Here's a view of the blind nuts in the top. I will coat all the screws with epoxy because they ain't coming back out. And the mount will be glued to the firewall too. If this plane ever crashes again, it's history. There is no telling what's still broken that I can't see.

I think I'll put an aluminum bearer across the screws and secure with nylock nuts and cut them to length.

I bought some CA hinges today for the flaps. Monokoting the rest will be a pain in the ass. All the new covering will be silver.
Rusty

oh boy oh boy i love fixing planes that have don crash landings! bounce

Oldenginerod Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:37 am

cox24711 wrote:
oh boy oh boy i love fixing planes that have don crash landings!

Well I think this one was more "crash" than "landing". lol!

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