practice combat plane

There are a gazillion simple balsa .049 flying wings. I'll look around. RCGroups.com has lots of PDF plans. Godsey probably knows where to find them. I'll post back later when I find some. I have a pair of Blackhawk LI'l Kom-Bats, but their pretty squirrelly for a beginner. Two to a kit. Here's the link:
http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/combat.html

here's one of mine
https://2img.net/h/i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/rknrusty/Airplanes/SAM_1512.jpg

I built the Vulture from Black Hawk Models as my second plane. It turned out very well for me. The CG on these is very important. Just a little too tail heavy and you are in heaps of trouble. I powered mine with a Black Widow. I plunked it in a couple times with no issues. It last flew early this year and had it's elevator disconnect in a figure 8. Smacked it right into the ground. Did not break anything. Just stressed a prop. It was one of those Yellow Safety props. It ended up with white streaks in it. The kit is fairly cheap. Comes with two. It comes with instructions although I do not believe they are completely necessary.

There are three versions of this plane.
http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/vulture.html
http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/condor.html
http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/combat.html

Rolla

Rolla:

White streaks on a yellow safety prop would indicate stress damage and potential failure in the making.

I'd suggest that you "toss" the prop and replace it.

I did toss the prop. I saw those marks and how it was curved backwards and got rid of it.

Sorry guys, I should have gave more info. We have lots of full size plane. We fly in carrier contest, stunt with friends, and have built the most basic planes to scratch built from plans. We also have built full size fast combat planes from balsa and foam wings. I just don't have a lot of experence with 1/2A combat. We have flown the lil satan and didn't care for it much. I would like to find a real good plane to hone skills with and we can fly 1/2A's easier by not having to go anywhere. We have the lil hackers also, but I like the idea of buying the wing core and building them with an arrow shaft tail boom. That should make them perform much better. I have dealt with Phil before, thanks for that idea.

Duke, something a more competitive for a Tee Dee would be Dirty Dan Rutherford's Dirty Beaver. A simple build, which has a constant chord wing. Dan also designed another the GollyGeeWhiz. One plane that comes to mind however is the 1/2A Monoboom. All TD designs that were quite competitive in the 80's. Steve Hill had some terrific 1/2A designs as well. Rich Von Lopez also has the 1/2A Matador which is not a simple build but a beautiful looking plane. Ken

Here's a carbon boom/foam wing example. You might also check out Larry's HalfLite -- it was an '84, '85 and '86 Nationals winner.

Duke:

It's experience and not the plane that lead you to become a good combat pilot.

As in so many things it isn't the equipment that makes one good. Golf and skiing come to mind as examples.

If I were put my Baby Ringmaster up against any combat plane you chose I'm very confident that I would win.

Dave
So true. We should try that someday though (we olny live 30-40 minute apart). We are not very good at combat ,yet. We fly some with the Broadway Bod Busters combat conest team. It's hard to take those planes out to practice $$$$. So, I would like to build cheaper 1/2A's to practice and I can fly them at the house. I would also like to put more kids on them. I have a bunch of TD's and not alot of fast combat engines. I like the foamies with arrow shaft tail booms, they take a beating.

Duke:

Suggestion:

Just try flying two planes in the same circle at the same time. Rather than go after each other try to keep them as far apart as possible.

The "nasty" part of combat can come after you learn evasion tactics.

That's the way that I learned to fly combat.

Suit yourself.

I'd be happy to fly against you AFTER you learn basic combat flying skills. Otherwise isn't not really a fair match-up.

One thing I wouldn't worry about is the speed. In fact, I was flying TD's on 42" lines and they were still plenty fast. Fast engines just means the planes are going to hit harder. I still use TD's but only for messing around.Having the solid machined carb body is a great idea and prevents you from losing your venturi and needle if you bury the plane up to the leading edge. I know this first hand and lost some due to the venturi breaking out of the plastic ones. I do own Fora's Cyclon's and Profi's. The reality of it is, I have more fun with the few Norvel's I have. If a ball bearing engine gets stuffed in the ground, your screwed. A set of bearings and a Russian glass prop equates to $25 that just went up in smoke. This is why I have a more enjoyable time with plain bearing engines. There's just no physical way in the field to just clean the dirt off and go fly again. I see people do it, but there goes the bearings usually. Plain bearing engines are going to be just fine. I used the APC 4.2x4 on my TD. It was doing pretty well. I also trimmed and feathered back the prop tips of a APC 4.6x3 cutting off a 1/4". That prop also yielded good results . I run a minimum of 25% nitro. The main thing is getting the speeds matched for both planes. Having one fast and one slow is not going to work well and can be very difficult to fly a match. Keeping a tight formation is equally as important in the circle. You literally need to be side by side and not even a few feet apart as this can cause problems with line tangles.

The best way to learn is to just follow each other. We have a rule of thumb when teaching new members. If you can't see your opponent, don't maneuver. Snappy maneuvers are going to result in a mid air almost 80% of the time. Big wide maneuvers at first . Focus on the opponents streamer tail and not the plane.Following through lazy eights is a great training experience. If you focused on the plane, 9 times out of 10 your going to fly through the opponents plane.The pilot needs to stay focused only on the tail of the streamer. If one or the other gets into a line tangle, don't panic. I've gotten out of many of them. Typically one plane is going to be in serious jeopardy. That one usually goes into the ground while the other has limited control. In the event that both are still airborne, flying figure eights until one or the other can unsort the mess that just happened.
At least this way, both planes will be without serious damage. Ken

Ken and Dave
All this is good info, but we do fly more than one in a circle already, i.e. combat, clown racing, and for fun. We play chase with the combat planes, one flies level and the other chases the streamer and that sort of thing. We just do this with cyclones, profi, and other larger engines. The problem with that is we have to go somewhere else to do it. I want something to fly at the house if we only have a short amount of time to fly. Someone mentioned Phil's lil hacker cores and build my version of a small F2D plane. I like that idea and also have emailed a friend that has a foam cutter about cutting me something. I really like the brainstorming, thanks.

Ken:

Two pilots flying two planes in the same circle is a learning experience in itself for those new to combat flying.

Or do you disagree and, if so, why??

I know it was an good experience for us.

duke.johnson wrote:...we do fly more than one in a circle already, i.e. combat, clown racing, and for fun. We play chase with the combat planes, one flies level and the other chases the streamer and that sort of thing...

That sounds like fun. Maybe if I can convert a club member or two to CL, we can do that. I seriously wonder if I have the skills to learn semi and then full combat. Too bad I've been flying since I was 12 and never knew competitive CL even existed until I got on the plane forums a couple of years ago.

Maybe I'll build my other Lil' Com Bat and match them up with some Black Widows and throw them in the car whenever I go to the field. Like I need another project. I still need a plane for my MP Jet .061. I have some plans already started that I can build around that engine.

I find that two in a circle just flying level is a chore in itself. In fact, it took me forever to learn how to do it without running around. I was literally worn out. First thing you need to learn is to relax and not panic. Throwing a line tangle in there really makes things even crazier. I was trying to learn how to do this with .35 size Ringmaster's. The guys at the club than would continually add more and more flyers to the circle. We had 7 in the air. Some were going inverted and it eventually ended up in a game of Ringmaster lawndarts. It just amazes me how fast it can go from good to bad. I suppose I misinterpreted the original question. I thought his boys were new to this . Seeing that they can play chase, this is a good thing. Keeping the planes out of harms way keeps equipment intact. I know my son and I get carried away during some matches. He won't let up on me. He's a better combat pilot than I am. However, he underestimates my talent at times. Ken

Ken:

Old age and treachery beat youth and entusiasim every time.

I'm really enjoying this thread, please feel free to keep giving hints on basic combat. I'm just interested in not tangling with simple circles! Maybe a sticky thread could be put together on all the tips (hmm maybe there already is one), or just a stand-alone thread just for this subject. You guys are a rare resource. For instance, should there be protocol on calling out "I'm passing over"? I imagine its eventually second nature and doesn't need such things. But it's bananas for me right now, although I know I better spend some real time soloing even though I've R/C'd a long time. I've not actually watched in person combat either.

I can't imagine learning this on 0.35's, and then flying with 7 at a time?!

In theory, you shouldn't be passing. Remember, your chasing and at no time do you want to be passing as your allowing your opponent to grab your streamer. It happens though. During my learning curve, the experienced guys would be flying above me and literally come down directly over top of me and this would place me it what's known as "The Pinch". I'm in a bad predicament at this point. I can't maneuver. They would force me lower and lower. At this point, the only thing I could do is to either wiggle, or slowly elevate my plane and do a quick outside maneuver to come up behind them. The neat thing is that when your placed in a pinch where your opponents lines are directly over yours or vice versa is when the chase can now begin. Keeping each other locked on is the secret. When you do engage in chase, you need to keep your maneuvers somewhat large when your inexperienced. Consecutive maneuvers such as 8's generally start becoming tighter and tighter. When the maneuvers tighten up in size, your opponent just following you is at an advantage. Eventually, you will more or less feed him your streamer. This is what I'm always doing and combining that with a pilot that won't allow you to get behind them ends up with them winning the match.

You don't want to do an inside loop as this generally is where the line tangle takes place. You end up looping around your opponents lines. I'm not saying not to do an outside loop. Doing an inside loop is much safer when both pilots are chasing one another. Passing is something that should be done without endangering either pilot. There shouldn't be any need to let your opponent know your passing, just give sufficient room to do so. Lining up your planes to your opponent is a must if you've never flown in a match prior. We have painted stripes on the grass where our handles line up to and the planes at the other end need to be within 6" of each other + or -. Maintaining the same arm stance as your opponent is another thing overlooked by most. You need to pay attention to where their arm is so that your not flying shy of their circumference or outside of it. This is how a line cut takes place and that can get exciting real fast. Sorry if I got way off topic of the original posting. Ken

As mentioned earlier we don't say anyting about passing unless we are clown racing or flying more than one at a time for fun. I have an old timer friend of mine that used to fly combat with four to six guys at a time. He says they did better at contests because of it. Two at a time was easy.

I went through my plans last night with my boys and found two sets of the baby flight streak. And thought about Dave's comments about take any 1/2A and fly combat. The baby flight streak should work great and easy to build. I might build one this weekend.

I truly enjoy the Flite Streak. I've flown them in combat matches with the .35 size version. My thinking though is that your dealing with a lot of pieces for 1/2A combat. Ken

Ken Cook wrote: I truly enjoy the Flite Streak. I've flown them in combat matches with the .35 size version. My thinking though is that your dealing with a lot of pieces for 1/2A combat. Ken

What do you mean by lots of pieces? By the way, look I think I figured out the Quote thingy.