Re: More Fun with Foxes !

Godsey3.0 Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:12 pm

Oooh. Those are cool engines. I still cannot get over how well and consistent Fox engines seem to run. I hope to start trying stunts on my Skyray soon. I am quite capable of doing stunts with 1/2a. Just more worried about wrecking this plane. I may have to either get a handle with smaller spacing or move the rod in the control horn. It is extremely touchy. With hand level it can be down, middle, or up. Sounds weird but it just takes very little movement to do anything. I can fly the plane level, just afraid I will do something stupid after loop and jerk it into the ground.

Ken Cook Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:16 pm

Hi Kim, your Fox.29 in this newest picture looks like my oldest Fox.35. I can say one thing, the Fox with that open exhaust has a bark to it that is really loud. I tried muffling mine and also discovered that some of these just don't like that heat. Your Fox.35 Combat special looks like a real nice piece there. I can tell it doesn't appear to have a whole lot of time on it. As you probably are already aware, that is a Fox.35 Blackhead. I believe that may be 1958. One of the years it didn't come with the black head as it was just mill finish.

Your example still has a nice black finish on it. That engine is going to surprise you. For an old timer it runs strong. I love the way it starts. It hiccups, backfires, and just wants to let you know it's hungry for fuel. I went head to head in a 3 up race with one last year. My friend had his blackhead in a rat racer. These don't like too much nitro as they can spit the crank out so don't push the nitro and again the high oil content is a must.

I hope you can get some of those in planes. The Blackhead would certainly be cool in one of the old combat designs like a Half Fast . Ken

Kim Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:20 pm

Godsey3.0 wrote:Oooh. Those are cool engines. I still cannot get over how well and consistent Fox engines seem to run. I hope to start trying stunts on my Skyray soon. I am quite capable of doing stunts with 1/2a. Just more worried about wrecking this plane. I may have to either get a handle with smaller spacing or move the rod in the control horn. It is extremely touchy. With hand level it can be down, middle, or up. Sounds weird but it just takes very little movement to do anything. I can fly the plane level, just afraid I will do something stupid after loop and jerk it into the ground.

If you know someone who owns a jigsaw, you can make your own 1/2A handle from plywood. Here is a photo of a Cox handle with a scale to show it's size. The best-all-around line spacing is the center holes. You should be able to do loops and wing-overs with this setting, without the plane being too sensitive. Of course, if you can get the actual handle, that'd be better!

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Kim Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:26 pm

shawn cook wrote: Hi Kim, your Fox.29 in this newest picture looks like my oldest Fox.35. I can say one thing, the Fox with that open exhaust has a bark to it that is really loud. I tried muffling mine and also discovered that some of these just don't like that heat. Your Fox.35 Combat special looks like a real nice piece there. I can tell it doesn't appear to have a whole lot of time on it. As you probably are already aware, that is a Fox.35 Blackhead. I believe that may be 1958. One of the years it didn't come with the black head as it was just mill finish.

Your example still has a nice black finish on it. That engine is going to surprise you. For an old timer it runs strong. I love the way it starts. It hiccups, backfires, and just wants to let you know it's hungry for fuel. I went head to head with one last year. My friend had his blackhead in a rat racer. These don't like too much nitro as they can spit the crank out so don't push the nitro and again the high oil content is a must.

I hope you can get some of those in planes. The Blackhead would certainly be cool in one of the old combat designs like a Half . Ken

Hey, appreciate your post! Yeah, I'm gonna try to talk Wayne into putting it in something besides the little scale Stearman ! I'm thinking that I'll take off with a biplane and land a wingless spear !

Godsey3.0 Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:16 pm

The Skyray I am talking about is the larger, 35 size version. Although I also have the 1/2a version that I stunt all the time with.

andrew Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:25 pm

Kim wrote:
If you know someone who owns a jigsaw, you can make your own 1/2A handle from plywood. Here is a photo of a Cox handle with a scale to show it's size. The best-all-around line spacing is the center holes. You should be able to do loops and wing-overs with this setting, without the plane being too sensitive. Of course, if you can get the actual handle, that'd be better!

You can make up really nice handles with a little effort and build in the adjustments you need. The early COX handles are sometimes hard to fine and may have become brittle over the years. I had one that had been stored in an outside shed that simply crumbled in my hands. Here is a link to a handle that I have been using for 1/2A --- it's a kite handle, but you can drill the horns to change the line spacing to your liking -- Kim's suggestion of using the more closely spaced holes may help smooth our your plane.

These handles are of a more flexible plastic and won't break if accidentily stepped on. Embarassed

http://www.goodwinds.com/merch/profile.shtml?index=1059699014_30634&cat=windersstraps.handgripwinders&loc=&listpage=1

Ivanhoe Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:14 am

Kim wrote:
Godsey3.0 wrote:Oooh. Those are cool engines. I still cannot get over how well and consistent Fox engines seem to run. I hope to start trying stunts on my Skyray soon. I am quite capable of doing stunts with 1/2a. Just more worried about wrecking this plane. I may have to either get a handle with smaller spacing or move the rod in the control horn. It is extremely touchy. With hand level it can be down, middle, or up. Sounds weird but it just takes very little movement to do anything. I can fly the plane level, just afraid I will do something stupid after loop and jerk it into the ground.

If you know someone who owns a jigsaw, you can make your own 1/2A handle from plywood. Here is a photo of a Cox handle with a scale to show it's size. The best-all-around line spacing is the center holes. You should be able to do loops and wing-overs with this setting, without the plane being too sensitive. Of course, if you can get the actual handle, that'd be better!

I would NOT recommend flying anything bigger than a Cox engine on a Cox plastic handle, a .29 / .35 can generate a huge ammount of pull on those lines, especially when pulling-out of manoeuvres, and would be quite capable of pulling the handle out of your hand, snapping it, or pulling the line attachments clean out of the handle. Please be warned, I've seen some very nasty accidents caused by plastic C/L handles, they are fine for little 1/2A models, but not for big/heavy/fast stunt models!
Make yourself a substantial handle out of 1/4" ply, drill several sets of line connecting holes and start with them fairly close together to reduce control movement. I would also advise you to connect a safety lanyard to the handle and fix it around your wrist, just in case the handle ever pulls out of your hand.
When I can find my handles out I'll put pictures up to show you what I mean.

Wilf

Ivanhoe Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:23 am

This is the handle/line setup I use for .35 stunt models....

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The handle is 1/4" ply, and the shape ensures that you can never pick it up upside down!
I've used variations of this handle for more years than I like to remember, I made my first back about 1958.

For 1/2A flying I use this SIG handle, pleanty of adjustment and a little stronger than the Cox one. Please note what it says on the handle!

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test stands - More Fun with Foxes ! - Page 2 Sig10

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Godsey3.0 Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:17 am

Yes. I know not to use 1/2a handles on bigger models. I have two Hot Rock handles, a Jim Walker U Reely, and a J. Roberts Throttle handle. One of those Hot Rocks is smaller in spacing. I will most likely use that. I hated soldering the rod in the horn so I am trying to avoid moving it to a lesser hole.

Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:12 am

YO!

NO! ALWAYS use the big handles designed for anything larger than 1/2A flying! AND...as Andrew pointed out...even the Cox 1/2A handles should be suspect for plastic fatigue.

I'm VERY sorry! Late night Old-Guy drowsiness, I guess! Woof!

My flying buddie, Patrick has a 1/2A Skyray, and my mind just clicked over there when reading your post!

Thanks for jumping in on this dudes!! Starting to think I should be monitored for my comments!

Now...more Folgers....

Ken Cook Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:17 am

The small Hot Rock is what you should be using on the Skyray. Another caution here though, the Hot Rock is quite old and many things can happen to it. I've seen the cable frayed within the handle where you can't see it. I've also seen the two halves separate and the cable get jammed. This happens during flight on the inside of the handle. Always take a close look at your handle and your terminations at your line ends. Ken

Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:22 am

While they're fairly expensive, Brodak sells a line of handles that could possibly tow a House Trailer !!

They ARE a few bucks, but would probably serve a life-time's worth of flying.

Kim sheepishly adds....

Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:29 am

shawn cook wrote: The small Hot Rock is what you should be using on the Skyray. Another caution here though, the Hot Rock is quite old and many things can happen to it. I've seen the cable frayed within the handle where you can't see it. I've also seen the two halves separate and the cable get jammed. This happens during flight on the inside of the handle. Always take a close look at your handle and your terminations at your line ends. Ken

Cautiously offering even MORE advice...if the cables in the Easy-Just handle are long enough, you CAN check them by feeding them all the way out one side, and then the other OR by pulling them to their full length out of the back.. This should give you a peek at the stress points where they are gripped inside the handle.

Now, back to my coffee cup...

**RknRusty** Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:04 am

It was a complete surprise when it let go. Both sides broke at the same time and I stood watching the plane hit the cement at full speed. They're still my favorite 1/2A handle, but I pay closer attention to the condition.
test stands - More Fun with Foxes ! - Page 2 Dhandle

test stands - More Fun with Foxes ! - Page 2 Dhandle

Ivanhoe Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:06 am

Kim wrote:
shawn cook wrote: The small Hot Rock is what you should be using on the Skyray. Another caution here though, the Hot Rock is quite old and many things can happen to it. I've seen the cable frayed within the handle where you can't see it. I've also seen the two halves separate and the cable get jammed. This happens during flight on the inside of the handle. Always take a close look at your handle and your terminations at your line ends. Ken

Cautiously offering even MORE advice...if the cables in the Easy-Just handle are long enough, you CAN check them by feeding them all the way out one side, and then the other OR by pulling them to their full length out of the back.. This should give you a peek at the stress points where they are gripped inside the handle.

Now, back to my coffee cup...

I've always found the EZ-Just handle anything BUT easy to adjust! However, I'm probably doing something wrong, the example I have came in one of my favourite junk grab-bags off EBay with no instructions, so there is probably a much easier way than the way I do it!

Ken Cook Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:25 am

Your findings are most accurate. The cable has to take a hard angle into the cinch, this is why it's most difficult to feed the cable in and out. This is also the point of where the cable is quite stressed. Without that friction there would obviously be no way of preventing the cable from sliding in flight. They do however get easier, this is the time you should really be looking for a new cable. I've worn out the cinch in the front and also 2 cables. I finally retired it when I started to see the handle halves coming loose. I managed to repair another one which was quite time consuming. I inserted brass tubes carefully bent to form the path of the cable.

I agree with Kim in regards to Brodak handles. They make an almost identical replica of the Hot Rock in wood. This handle is in the $20.00 range and replacement cables available as well. Certainly an investment that will last many years. I like the dark wood although it makes it quite difficult to find the handle in the grass. I hate to do it but I paint them with safety yellow. Ken

Ivanhoe Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:46 am

shawn cook wrote: I like the dark wood although it makes it quite difficult to find the handle in the grass. I hate to do it but I paint them with safety yellow. Ken

Yes, that's why my handles are always painted red!

Godsey3.0 Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:55 am

I usually either run my hand down the lines to the handle or place my foot on the lines. I can usually feel the vibrations with the steel cables.

Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:50 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:
shawn cook wrote: I like the dark wood although it makes it quite difficult to find the handle in the grass. I hate to do it but I paint them with safety yellow. Ken

Yes, that's why my handles are always painted red!

A white or yellow safety lanyard will mark them also.

Ken Cook Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:08 pm

Hi Kim, sorry to bounce off topic but I was wondering about the picture above your name. Is that a Winder you have displayed? Very cool. Looking back I haven't noticed it until now. Ken

Ivanhoe Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Kim, i LIKE this!!!

" If they don't run, they might as well be cast from pewter !"

Motto of The Skunk Works

Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:14 pm

shawn cook wrote: Hi Kim, sorry to bounce off topic but I was wondering about the picture above your name. Is that a Winder you have displayed? Very cool. Looking back I haven't noticed it until now. Ken

Ken Dude!

You ARE Old School! Yes, it's a 1967 Terry Prather "Winder" but powered with a much more benign McCoy .35 in place of a supersonic Supertigre!

I finished it about a year and half ago, and it has yet to fly, because I'm not gonna ask Rory to launch this monster. The scheme is all Brodak Dope, and I MAY attempt to apply it's name in stylist script to the outboard wing, but that will be a mood thing if it happens. I intend to make adapt a dolly to my launching stooge (I don't want a wheel hanging beneath it as it flys), so it waits for my attentions there.

I'd admired it as a kid, and when I discovered that Fast Eddie at Lazerworks sells Short Kits of the Winder, figured I'd build myself one.

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test stands - More Fun with Foxes ! - Page 2 Winder12

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Kim Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:15 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Kim, i LIKE this!!!

" If they don't run, they might as well be cast from pewter !"

Motto of The Skunk Works

Thanks, but don't forget me when the Collectors come over the hill for my hide !!!!!

Ken Cook Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:46 pm

My son Shawn flies speed limit and 1/2A combat quite well. Both of us enjoy combat and the old designs we love to fly them when we can. Anytime after a contest we generally like to throw some nostalgia into the mix. The "Nemesis" is certainly on our list with a few others. I always liked the Voodoo I guess you could say old school. Not a quick turning plane but it does have some eye catching appeal. That Blackhead looks like it would go real nice with that black and orange paint scheme. Ken

andrew Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:06 pm

Kim wrote:

You ARE Old School! Yes, it's a 1967 Terry Prather "Winder" but powered with a much more benign McCoy .35 in place of a supersonic Supertigre!

This place is always a source of information, well, for me at least. I had never associated Terry Prather with control line, but rather with R/C, pylon and Prather Products. Thanks for the pics --- like Rusty's adventures, these old pics are always a source of enjoyment.

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