Half A Starter Question

It is good to drop a little oil between crankcase and steel washer.

Thanks, Kim, absolutely true..in fact I only bump start the starter motor then release the starter button, and push the cone to the spinner, using the kinetic energy of the starter rotor, instead of continuosly pushing the starter button. With a correctly primed COX engine this is more than enough to crank it alive, and is safe against a hydraulic lock that may break the crankpin (been there...)

Here is a Sullivan working over an AP .061:
https://youtu.be/osxQfIvjS3E

That idea is helpful:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12500-spinner-gasket-tip

thank you to everyone for such prompt and genuinely helpful comments as to the starters! I really wasnt sure if they were a good thing or not, as you know there is bits written that they are problems and you should just flick your TD once and it runs............. The cast of people / forum members that have responsed and that they use them and some things to watch for is enough for me to believe I should purchase one and enjoy the easier starting more often!! Thank you very much for the help. This is a great strength of the forum to me, where I have no club to go to and the forum IS my club and advice etc. and we all need that from time to time with things about modelling as we progress. or we dont progress because we just dont know.

Thanks.

Yabby

Hello again Yabby. I made my own starter using a "can motor" that had a 12VDC rating. Nothing fancy; came out of a Coleman 12VDC emergency tire inflator. The motor is a "540" series electric motor which is very common. Mine came with a gear that was pressed-onto the motor's output shaft.

Before you check-out the link below; Understand that this starter was intended for use with Cox .049 engines.. and I'll emphasize "Sport" engines.. because I have only used it for starting my Cox reed-valve .049 engines.

It's been mentioned earlier in this thread; to be careful when using an electric starter. This is good advice for when attempting to start "any" model engine. A heavy-handed coupling should be avoided. If your subject-engine is compression/hydro-locked (flooded with fuel..) and you couple your elec. starter too agressively; you risk breaking.. either the con-rod.. or shearing-off the crank-pin. This ends ALL fun immediately. It's tempting to engage the engine/starter with authority, but consider the risks involved.

an additional disclaimer.. Forcing a flooded-engine to turn through-cycle VIA elec. starter will also stress the air-frame.

Wearing safety eye/ear protection goes without saying, when working with functional model engines

I've mentioned it here a few times. See the below link to the thread..

"Red Neck" .049 electric starter

My "Red-Neck" starter is really old now. but still works remarkably well.

If the above link to the CEF thread on my starter-design requires further explanation; please dont' hesitate to contact me.

thanks heaps @roddie that is a great and detailed post with a fantastic link to a redneck half A starter thread. I reckon it contains all the detail I need to go ahead and build one now. The good thing is it has plenty of warnings about 'gotchas' . Im reasonable good mechanically, its just cutting and gluing, and painting balsa part I struggle terribly with. Lots of good ideas in the thread you linked to. I feel confident I will be able to construct a safe and reliable starter for my TD 049s now. I have also re-read the Cox doc on starting a TD and it has fixed a couple of things I was not doing quite right so to speak, and why I was flooding the engine when refuelling and re-starting etc. That will also help. I have found since I read the Cox TD starting information, they are starting much much better as Im not flooding them at all or even getting close. The starter and the techniques in the starting procedure need to come together for good, reliable starting, without damage to the engine. Now that Im starting them properly, and understand what I was doing wrong, I figure a Starter rather than the spring is the go. I find the life of the TD springs isnt what I would like and at the cost of lots of springs I figured it was time for a starter.

So now its time I build myself a powersupply system for the starter and glow plug out in the field. I will make one from components. Electronics and embedded software is my background. My power supply will be a pretty simple type one.

Hmmmm. I have some work to do now. The PSU will first up be a QaD (Quick and Dirty) one to get the starter built, tested and working. Once that is done, I will sort/design/build a good PSU for the field that suits my needs.

thanks for the help!

Now to go looking for things that turn with a battery. Im still thinking old battery drill might be a candidate. Dont need lots of muscle to turn over a Half A.

Yabby

I have an old Astro Flight 1/2 A starter. I figure it spins about 10000rpm. Starting my Pee Wee 0.020 you don't have ANY worries about backwards rotation and absolutely no need to prime the engine. I honestly don't think you're going to wear out the crankcase using one of these.

Yabby wrote: I'm still thinking that an old battery drill might be a candidate. Dont need lots of muscle to turn over a Half A.

Yabby

An old retired cordless drill motor might be perfect Yabby! The motor probably already has a gear that's pressed-onto its output shaft. That "gear" is integral to to function of my "Red-Neck" starter-design.

The black-rubber automotive-type fuel line, engages the aluminum spinner which is fitted to your engines.

If you have all of the "other" components to build the starter.. visit your local auto-parts store... and buy a 12" length (X1 foot) of 5/16" (8mm.) ID (inside diameter) fuel-line and maybe X1 more X12" length of slightly larger 3/8" dia. (9.53mm) fuel line. These two sizes will fit the Cox engine "Tee Dee" style aluminum spinners. Cut "segments" of the line(s) into X1 inch (25.4mm) lengths.. and you'll have a good supply for when they wear-out.

I made this compact one with LiPo battery. May be helpful:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12008-making-a-starter-for-cox-engines

I have a LOT of experience with 1/2A starters having used ALL of them apart from the GloBee 'stinger'....so that includes the 'mini' out of Hong Kong, the Astroflite, the Norvel, the Miller R/c and the Sullivan Hornet-plus of course making my own from a 540 motor...

I'll summarise here:

The 'Mini' and Hornet starters are not really '1/2A' starters but designed for 'small' engines...small in this context being up to about 15 displacement...and their geometry is such that anything small than an 049 will be a bit problematic. I like the hornet for general use and use it on both my TD's and Norvels as well as my OS Max 15s....which makes it quite useful....the 'mini' which I no longer have-was more suited to 09-15 sized engines....and turned a bit slow for 1/2a use....

The 'Astroflite' is a genuine 1/2a starter-but a bit rough in the bearings-but durable-they seem to last and last.

The Norvel is -in a word 'brutal'-and I do not recommend it-it seemingly has the wrong spec'ced motor for the task and often kicks the rubber out of the cup....as far as I am concerned...a wasted purchase.

The Miller R/c unit is the prince of 1/2A starters-smooth, reliable and comes with alternative inserts for 049, 020 and 010 engine sizes....it IS intended for 1/2A use only though and will struggle on 09s-let alone anything larger.  if you get the opportunity to buy one-grab it-you will never regret it...but they are out of production now.

For general utility, the hornet is the way to go...but as I said if you can find a Miller-and your fly 1/2A as your main interest-then go for it.  making your own has some merit-and was a good idea 30 years ago-but now there are fewer choices available in the brushed, can motor range....    If your interest is 1/2A and small-it might just be that a 400 size motor could cope rather than the 540 size that most 1/2A starters use....

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'

Thanks Chris! that is a most excellent review of your actual use of the starters and across different sized kit considered half A or the edge of half A. As much as I like making things I think the Hornet is the starter for me and my TDs from what you are saying, unless the other turns up on ebay. I have seen the hornet on the Brodak we site so I assume I can get it and for the cost the trouble saved is huge and I have a known quantitiy and capabiliity that can do the exact job Im after. Starting my 049 TDs. Next week I will sort out the purchase of a Hornett starter and a number of spare inserts. I also have a pair of Enya 15s and OS 15s and do not intend getting any bigger engines. If the hornett can do them also that would be great. Although I only have to look at those engines and they want to start. I think the big prop throw maybe helps. not sure but they start so reliably and easily and on very low Nitro (10%) .

Thank you for your time and effort Chris to write up a detailed review of starters you have used and their pros and cons, I greatly appreciate it.
I will attempt to toder a hornet this monday. :-)

GaryB
'Yabby'

I had this starter - now it turns out to be a Miller - bought from the late and great Roger Freiheit, the inventor of PET exhaust throttle for TeeDee010 engines. It worked well on 049 size COX engines, but was a bit weak for the 09, especially in cold weather. Unfortunately it developed a push-button contact problem, and I cannot disassemble it for a check or repair.

Then I got my Sullivan Hornet....

Garry b-given your comments immediately above-the Hornet is definitely the starter for you as it will handle your 1/2A needs and your larger ones. I have to say I probably use mine more than any of the others....since although i do have a lot of bigger engines, most of my flying is done with the 040-15 sizes. I've never tried it....but i reckon it might just cope with the odd lower compression .19 as well...providing you had a decent battery...........though I wouldn't expect it to cope with an ABC 3.5...

You can't go too far wrong with one-they're not too expensive and unlike all the others I mentioned earlier, you can still get the parts for them...especially the rubber inserts-which are the thing that's most likely to require periodic replacement-either because you spun it off and can't find it in the long grass...or simply from wear and tear!

ChrisM

balogh wrote:I had this starter - now it turns out to be a Miller - bought from the late and great Roger Freiheit, the inventor of PET exhaust throttle for TeeDee010 engines. It worked well on 049 size COX engines, but was a bit weak for the 09, especially in cold weather. Unfortunately it developed a push-button contact problem, and I cannot disassemble it for a check or repair.

Then I got my Sullivan Hornet....

Balogh-you confirm my earlier comments that the Miller was intended purely as a 1/2A starter-and the smaller sizes.....I suspect that by choosing a relatively low power motor the manufacturers ensured that it was smooth and easy to operate for its optimal size range....but of course implicit in that decision is the acceptance that it will struggle on anything larger than 061.

I have two of them-one is a normal handheld that lives in my 1/2A field box, the other is permanently installed in my 'FF power model starter box' along with a larger 'standard' starter to be used on bigger models-both operated from a footswitch -n fact this second Miller was purchased direct from the factory specifically without the normal press button installed, so it could be wired into the box circuitry.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Chris, yes, the Miller was fine unyil the pushbutton failed. There seems to be a thick, plastic circlip at both ends of the starter, and if I could remove one of them, the motor and the switch would probably slip out of the casing..a very handy lottle starter, but since I got my Hornet, that handles my full range if COX engines, the Miller stays in the infirmary..

Bonus for the Sully...friction cups are still available as of a couple of years ago. All the others are functional until wear items wear out.

944_Jim wrote:Bonus for the Sully...friction cups are still available as of a couple of years ago. All the others are functional until wear items wear out.

I noticed that when looking them up on the net. I think when I order it, I will order a quite a number of the friction cups to make sure. Thanks @944_Jim

GaryB
'Yabby'

Hi All,
Great info here...
All I can add, is I tried a cone on a cordless drill...
(Makita, 8 cell nicad )~ 30yrs ago.
Not enough rpms. Seemed fast enough, but did not work for me.
Not sure how latest cordless performance is...

Your results may vary,
Dave

Hi All,

Same as Dave, tried yesterday. with cordless drill but no fast enough.


GaryB
'yabby'