Saving old glow fuel

rsv1cox Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:31 pm

I have been meaning to do this for some time.

A couple of cans are empty but three contain some fuel. Some I have had forever, some came from flea markets. Not sure of the age, but I think from 10- 20 years ago.

Started out straining the fuel through a shop towel but noticing it was clear and wasting more than I was saving I just dumped them in a clean jar.

Dark but not cloudy. None of the cans display a break-down of content just nitro/methane. About 7 oz I would guess. Had about a half inch left of Cox 35 in the bottle so I just dumped it in. No sediment in the bottle of the glass jar.

Going to try it out on my Testors P-40, hope it works, if not I will try one of my never fail to start (most of them) Cox engines.

happydad Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:11 pm

[quote="rsv1cox"]I have been meaning to do this for some time.

A couple of cans are empty but three contain some fuel. Some I have had forever, some came from flea markets. Not sure of the age, but I think from 10- 20 years ago.

Started out straining the fuel through a shop towel but noticing it was clear and wasting more than I was saving I just dumped them in a clean jar.

Dark but not cloudy. None of the cans display a break-down of content just nitro/methane. About 7 oz I would guess. Had about a half inch left of Cox 35 in the bottle so I just dumped it in. No sediment in the bottle of the glass jar.

Going to try it out on my Testors P-40, hope it works, if not I will try one of my never fail to start (most of them) Cox engines.

rsv1cox.

Try making the straining area inside the bottle larger. I typically use 1/3 to 1/2 the top area of the bottle to strain the fuel thru the wrap-cloth. That way the fuel has a place to settle and not spill over the top.

Happydad.

Iceberg Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:02 pm

Hi Happy dad I always use two coffee filters like Melita in a funnel and pour fuel through. I had several VERY frustrating days with plugged intake pipes because a small piece of fluff from a plant or Q-tip or something ended up not getting filtered and getting sucked up the needle valve. The Coffee filters worked. I also use micro stainless filter before filling the tanks on the planes. No more problems.

All smooth sailing..... or flying rather Laughing

Ice

rsv1cox Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:12 pm

Yeah, it was like watching grass grow or paint dry. The shop towel was doing too good a job, drip, drip, drip and I have two more cans to go. Sad

Not worried about it, kept things clean and the fuel going in the Cox bottle was clear. More worried about the amount of oomph left in the fuel.

We shall see, and I will let you know.

Iceberg Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:42 pm

I got a can of original cox fuel from late 1970's. That stuff was old but ran really good. Kicked but. Some say should have been dead but it WAS NOT.

Maybe your old fuel will run good too. Hope so!!
Ice

sosam117 Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:14 pm

I think most of the coloring is coming from the old caster oil?
When It is first pressed it has a color to it. Then the 2nd press it is almost clear (still a slight yellow tint.

I think what is more important is still how much nitro is in there to still make the engine run?

**944_Jim** Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:35 pm

From what I've read before, castor oil will drop out of suspension and collect into strands that look almost like wisps of cotton. This coagulation is minimized by using very clean caster oil. I think it is called first-pressed castor oil (check my memory on that).

I mix my fuel from methanol, commercially available fuel, and racing castor (medicinal castor in a pinch)...and then filter with a coffee filter just before use.

But I have also seen the "strands" when the mixed fuel sits for an extended period of time...shake, shake, shake, then filter just before use again.

So far, so good.

rsv1cox Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:31 am

Coffee filters sounds like a good idea, and I have plenty. May use one to filter the fuel again before I use it.

I washed the cans in hot soapy water and rinsed them off. Going to polish them with something - Pledge, auto wax, maybe even Howards Wax and admire them for awhile. Big following for vintage cans.

I popped the vacuum dented cans back into shape by injecting compressed air and will leave the caps on loose.

balogh Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:44 am

Rather than exposing the highly hygroscopic and volatile fuel to ambient air when filtering, I prefer using ultra light filters chucked in the fuel line upstream the carb of the engine.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/222145715101
Needs simple cleaning every season. Pouring fuel from one can into another, let alone through a filter, will allow it to absorb moisture from air and evaporate nitro and methanol i.e. strength.

Just my 5 cents..

balogh Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:45 am

Deleted because double posting..

rsv1cox Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 am

Good point Andras and I used them on my R/C planes where there is a lot of room. Not so much room on these little 1/2A jobs and no space at all on the tanked engines where most of this fuel (hopefully) will be used.

Yesterday we had high humidity, today not so bad. I could filter in my basement where I keep a dehumidifier running 24/7 during the summer. Keeps the humidity level around 35/37%. Takes out about a gallon and a half of distilled water every two days some of which I save.

Polished up the cans, left the caps loose and put them on my display case, Cox cans with the Cox engines, Testor's can with the Testor's engines.

One of Fred's engines on the Lil Tiger.

balogh Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:39 am

Beautiful stuff there, Bob...I would love to run my sticky fingers through your collection once!

I also got a surprise TD049 from Fred with the same NV assembly and red sleeve!

I put the small filters in my smallest RC planes just dangling outside the tank compartment so as not to occupy space and for the ease of access for cleaning like here on the Quickie100, viewed from the bottom

rsv1cox Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 am

Did those pictures show?

My PC decided to take a sick day when I posted them on my computer and all I get is the monkey chasing it's loading tail and no pictures. Rebooted, shut down, did a dance and nothing changes, still get the monkey................

Never mind, now they show up. Only took 15 minutes for them to load.

Open invitation Andras. I know you travel a lot. If your ever around Northern Virginia, let me know.

balogh Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:33 am

Thanks Bob with Covid19 raging worldwide my visit with you is not a real threat. Anyway please take your time and install a metal detector or similar anti- theft scanner at your door before I visit your COX collection. Laughing

getback Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:58 am

Cool Bob Cans look Good ! How did the old fuel smell ? I got i know 1or2 cans of cox upstairs in an ammo can , some my stuff from way back then . Small Cox Logo

rsv1cox Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:46 pm

Smells like eau de toilet Eric. Smile

In other words it stinks, not too unlike fresh fuel but you differently know the difference.

Thanks for the compliment Andras, but I doubt you would find much worth lifting. My history was, and is now, buying other peoples casts-offs and trying to make them better, or at least trying to bring them back to life. I have quantity, I would be embarrassed to list my cylinder index, but except for things that people here have sent me, not quality.

Bob

BTW two cans still have price stickers, one readable, the quart Cox Glow Power. $1.75.

NEW222 Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:48 pm

Great idea to try them together. And if I may add another possible alternative for straining. I personally use an automotive paint filter to run my fuel through when I need to. It is definately quicker than coffee filter or such, and also does a great job. Just find yourself a local bodyshop or supplier and ask for a paint strainer filter or two. They are already funnel shaped, and if you like, you can also drop one into a small funnel for extra then put the tip of the funnel into your bottle. Or, as I do, I just sit my filter into the mouth of a mason jar, strain it all through, then simply pour into my fuel bottle.

Now for my question, which piggybacks off of Eric's comment. This is about the smell of old fuel. Why does old fuel tend to have the foul pungent smell to it?

getback Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:17 am

(Smells like eau de toilet Eric. Smile ) lol!

I guess i should have ask if it still smells like Fuel Huh...

Thats a good question Chancy , i would think it is from separation of the contents ?? Kind a like canned goods. Laughing

rsv1cox Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:50 am

I have no idea, but a chemist would probably know. A breakdown of a component I would think giving off fumes. Age does that to things, I'm sure I stink more today than I did 40 years ago. Smile

Went out to the garage this morning to fuel up the P-40 and give it a try, but my heart wasn't in it. Rainy morning here and if I got it started I wouldn't fly it.

I have paint filters too Chancey, as you describe and probably best for filtering. Cone shape helps.

fredvon4 Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:50 pm

old fuel smelling funky probably has organic lubricant(s) castor bean oil, sunflower oil, there are others I don't remember...they can break down and go rancid or grow fungus

re filtering fuel for consolidation...most of my aged bottom of container fuels get consolidated for cleaning use rarely more than a pint salvaged

I do blend my own fuels and filter twice when done and ready for containers...all fresh new from the carry company. Quarts, 1/2 gallons, Gallon metal cans

dedicated funnel, paint strainer in the funnel, then short 6~8" length of 1/4 ID auto fuel line into AutoZone or similar Plastic fuel filter like you see on Riding mower engines, then another length of fuel line into a large 1 liter graduated flask for inspection.

I clean the mixing container and pour the flask back into it.. Then another trip through the filters into final container, pre marked, with good seal and metal cap

NEW222 Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:19 pm

Wow, that is quite the process Fred. But I can really see the benefit of having very well filtered and clean fuel. And heck, for as much as these little engines use, teh extra time would be well worth it. As to your comment on oil breakdown. That does seem really possible as the cause as like you say, it is organic.

rsv1cox Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:27 pm

That is masterful filtering. Paint filter in the funnel, fuel line leading to an auto gas filter leading to a flask. Filtered twice with just one effort.

What ratios do you use when mixing your own - % methanol / nitro / castor / other? I imagine it varies with application.

fredvon4 Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:42 pm

some smart guy a while back told me to stop fussing with OZs- pints- quarts- and gallons...Go metric young man where every thing is base 10

1 liter is 1000ML

10% Nitro is 100ML (25% is 250ML----35% is 350ML and so on)

22% total lube is 220 ML...so a 50/50 lube package might be..50% castor is 110ML ---50% Synth is another 110ML any ratio you want is easy to do the math

100ml and 220 ml is 320 ML remainder is 680ML of Methanol....I never really measure the Methanol....just fill up to the 1000ML graduation

For my little engines I only blend 500ML at a time so my recipes are cut in half

I have several synth and Castor lubes

so some times I split my synth again with part UCON LB625 and part one of the Klotz versions

rsv1cox Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:08 am

Thanks Fred, might mix me up some, I'm down to my last quart - err .946 liter of Brodak 5/29.

getback Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:32 am

I got a question on mixing Fred > Is it any cheaper after acquiring all the ingredients ? I live very close 2-3 miles to a dragstrip and they sell Alcohol , i don't know about N. or Meth. Thanks in Advance Fishing

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